What is Jeep doing? So lost at this point

[AyeCantSeeYou]

@JeepCares How can a group of REAL Gladiator owners let their voices be heard about what they would like to see as options in upcoming models?

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[LostWoods]

Yeah, I wonder what the people running the place use for brains. No stick, no hemi option.

These are fundamental options that should be available for the Gladiator.

It's almost like there are things that impact their decisions aside from the opinion of random people on an enthusiast forum.

 

[Advntrbound]

Not going to lie, I wish I could easily change my MT to an automatic.

 

[Stan H]

The reality is that the manual Gladiator was not a big seller. Of all the leftover models on lots, most are manual or some other unpopular choice like soft top, etc.

I remember people grumbling when Ram diesel trucks got rid of the manual in 2018. The market demand was tiny and shrinking for them, and it no longer made financial sense to produce them.

The automatics of today are head and shoulders above the slushboxes of yesteryear. I just wish I had paddle shifters on the wheel for my 8 speed.

They make them

 

[WestwallNF104A]

It's almost like there are things that impact their decisions aside from the opinion of random people on an enthusiast forum.

Indeed. Yet the decisions are obviously stupid because they are selling fewer, and fewer, and fewer vehicles.

If you build vehicles that people don't want, they don't buy them.

So, either the best minds in the business are wrong, or they want the companies to lose money.

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

Well I’d say what’s the ratio of manuals to autos across both platforms…..me guess is autos out sell manuals by a wide deep margin.
So…..maybe they are creating their own attrition with the V6, as in if’n you want an auto(which most likely would) only offer it married to the Polar Bear 5000. Kinda like make the V6 uninteresting. Manual transmission people are a minority. I guess why not just drop the V6 altogether??
Of course I posed a random question embedded in a thread as why there hasn’t ever been a turbo 4 slug option for the gladiator.

There’s also the principle of it. A jeep should always have an MT option. Bc that’s where it all started. Just like folding windshields and the rest of the authentic jeep stuff. To have only auto Jeeps comes at the intangible cost to jeep cred. Anyway ..

Oh and yes, ffs a truck needs a truck box and clutch. Not the Jl box ffs. No brainer.

I’d take the 2.0l turbo over the 3.6 personally. It makes a whack more torque much further down the rev range. And all indications are it’s fairly reliable.

Here in aus petrol (gas) v6’s are not sold in numbers in any vehicle. They’re considered to be a very poor choice of powertrain for such a vehicle as say glad.

 

[Gvsukids]

Well, I guess it would be useful for quick downshifts, when the tranny tries lugging the engine, while in high gear.

If only there was some other way...

@JeepCares How can a group of REAL Gladiator owners let their voices be heard about what they would like to see as options in upcoming models?

https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/forum/threads/we-want-to-hear-from-you-jeepcares.76137/

Good luck.

 

[GeneralMaximus]

If only there was some other way...

If you want to keep both hands on the wheel as it jerks around offroad, then sure you can always ask the passenger to manually downshift for you.

 

[ZeeJay]

There’s also the principle of it. A jeep should always have an MT option. Bc that’s where it all started. Just like folding windshields and the rest of the authentic jeep stuff. To have only auto Jeeps comes at the intangible cost to jeep cred. Anyway ..

Oh and yes, ffs a truck needs a truck box and clutch. Not the Jl box ffs. No brainer.

I’d take the 2.0l turbo over the 3.6 personally. It makes a whack more torque much further down the rev range. And all indications are it’s fairly reliable.

Here in aus petrol (gas) v6’s are not sold in numbers in any vehicle. They’re considered to be a very poor choice of powertrain for such a vehicle as say glad.

Maybe it’s been answered somewhere and there is a reason and just don’t know it, I’m unclear why it wasn’t an option in the JT. It would seem the forced path forward is small displacement forced induction engines.

Oh well, I don’t have a dog in this fight anymore so doesn’t matter. One to two weeks my brother in law is buying the one I have and I’m out.

 

[LostWoods]

Indeed. Yet the decisions are obviously stupid because they are selling fewer, and fewer, and fewer vehicles.

If you build vehicles that people don't want, they don't buy them.

So, either the best minds in the business are wrong, or they want the companies to lose money.

Making money isn't as simple as give the customer what they want. If it were, we'd get the Hilux, real Land Cruiser, and Jeeps would be available with a V8 and D60s off the lot. There are regulations that are the primary determinant of any manufacturer's decisions and what the customer likes must fit within that very constrained box.

Everyone's sales are down because interest rates are high, but Jeep fucked up chasing the Land Rover lite image across most the line and they're facing challenges to the Wrangler and Gladiator that didn't exist 2-3 years ago. It turns out most don't actually need an unapologetic off-roader so the Bronco and all the updated mid-size pickups are eating their market.

There’s also the principle of it. A jeep should always have an MT option. Bc that’s where it all started. Just like folding windshields and the rest of the authentic jeep stuff. To have only auto Jeeps comes at the intangible cost to jeep cred. Anyway ..

Companies die by their principles and inability to innovate and change.

There was a time that a "real" Jeep only had two doors. It didn't have power windows or locks or pretty plastic trim everywhere or all the creature comforts that are now standard. Should we stick with those because that's where it all started? People were outraged when Jeep changed the YJ's leaf packs for coils and those TJ owners later thought the JK too posh. Now look what the Wrangler has become - it's about as far from where it started as anything on the market.

There was a time that a "real" truck was defined as something you could put a full sheet in, laying flat with the tailgate up. Now, four doors is the standard and anything more than a five or six foot box is a rarity.

There was a time that the best sports cars in the world had manuals. Good luck finding one these days because they all moved to sequential gearboxes with flappy paddles over a decade ago and they're faster for it.

These things changed because innovation and the market demanded it. Nobody cares what principles you or I think define a company. All those are good for is determining what you will buy and if you don't, well, it seems others still will.

 

[WestwallNF104A]

Making money isn't as simple as give the customer what they want. If it were, we'd get the Hilux, real Land Cruiser, and Jeeps would be available with a V8 and D60s off the lot. There are regulations that are the primary determinant of any manufacturer's decisions and what the customer likes must fit within that very constrained box.

Everyone's sales are down because interest rates are high, but Jeep fucked up chasing the Land Rover lite image across most the line and they're facing challenges to the Wrangler and Gladiator that didn't exist 2-3 years ago. It turns out most don't actually need an unapologetic off-roader so the Bronco and all the updated mid-size pickups are eating their market.




Companies die by their principles and inability to innovate and change.

There was a time that a "real" Jeep only had two doors. It didn't have power windows or locks or pretty plastic door trim everywhere or all the creature comforts that are now standard. Should we stick with those because that's where it all started? People were outraged when Jeep changed the YJ's leaf packs for coils and those TJ owners later thought the JK too posh. Now look what the Wrangler has become - it's about as far from where it started as anything on the market.

There was a time that a "real" truck was defined as something you could put a full sheet in, laying flat with the tailgate up. Now, four doors is the standard and anything more than a five or six foot box is a rarity.

There was a time that the best sports cars in the world had manuals. Good luck finding one these days because they all moved to sequential gearboxes with flappy paddles over a decade ago and they're faster for it.

These things changed because innovation and the market demanded it. Nobody cares what principles you or I think define a company. All those are good for is determining what you will buy and if you don't, well, it seems others still will.

Limiting choice is a loser. Yes, interest rates are definitely an issue, as is insurance, bidenomics has really hurt the middle class with the inflation, but if you are going to produce a lifestyle vehicle, you MUST give the potential buyers options.

Jeep did the opposite, the jacked up the price, while limiting options, and they want to take more away.

Government regulations are definitely killing the auto market. If it keeps going as it is, you are going to have a few people with electric vehicles, but they won't be able to charge them because the grid can't handle it.

I think Ineos has it right, they have TONS of options. You can build it almost anyway you want it. I am specing one out now, and will probably buy it next year to use as my daily driver.

 

[LostWoods]

Limiting choice is a loser. Yes, interest rates are definitely an issue, as is insurance, bidenomics has really hurt the middle class with the inflation, but if you are going to produce a lifestyle vehicle, you MUST give the potential buyers options.

Jeep did the opposite, the jacked up the price, while limiting options, and they want to take more away.

Government regulations are definitely killing the auto market. If it keeps going as it is, you are going to have a few people with electric vehicles, but they won't be able to charge them because the grid can't handle it.

I think Ineos has it right, they have TONS of options. You can build it almost anyway you want it. I am specing one out now, and will probably buy it next year to use as my daily driver.

Choice is expensive. The trick to making money at scale is to cover as much of your market with the fewest options. The inflation of the past few years has been a huge issue, but reducing options is smart because it significantly reduces manufacturing costs and is unlikely to deter most consumers.

Ineos is an odd choice for having options because they do option features, but you have like 2 vehicle options with one powertrain that is automatic only. It's also a lot easier to do when you only target building 10k a year at $78k starting and they're all ordered ahead of time so you can plan your manufacturing. Not really comparable to a multi-national OEM.

 

[WestwallNF104A]

Choice is expensive. The trick to making money at scale is to cover as much of your market with the fewest options. The inflation of the past few years has been a huge issue, but reducing options is smart because it significantly reduces manufacturing costs and is unlikely to deter most consumers.

Ineos is an odd choice for having options because they do option features, but you have like 2 vehicle options with one powertrain that is automatic only. It's also a lot easier to do when you only target building 10k a year at $78k starting and they're all ordered ahead of time so you can plan your manufacturing. Not really comparable to a multi-national OEM.

No, the trick to making money is providing a product people want.values.

I chose Ineos because they are a startup. So expect more drive train options in the future. Jeep has loads of experience with the hemi in the Wrangler. Why don't they use that experience?

 

[BourbonRunner]

@LostWoods and @WestwallNF104A both bring up valid points from different angles.

It's very complex and all a delicate balance Stellantis and the others maintain. Some do it better than others, and some lose $36K per unit sold or sit on tens of thousands of unsold vehicles because someone didn't read the tea leaves properly.

 

[WestwallNF104A]

@LostWoods and @WestwallNF104A both bring up valid points from different angles.

It's very complex and all a delicate balance Stellantis and the others maintain. Some do it better than others, and some lose $36K per unit sold or sit on tens of thousands of unsold vehicles because someone didn't read the tea leaves properly.

That is very very true. I understand where Lost Woods is coming from, but choosing to pursue a lifestyle brand brings certain obligations to those people who seek that lifestyle.

Stellantis seems to be ignoring Jeeps core values.

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