3.6 pentastar 2020 major problems - Is the newer engine better in 2025 etc.

[Stan H]

What I can’t seem to figure out (and it seems no one else can) is why the vast majority of these failure occurs on the right side. You would think that both sides would have been designed and machined the same way but the data would indicate otherwise.

If the Jeep engineers actually knew the root cause of the malfunction you would think that they would quietly make the design changes to the failed components and start rolling them out in production engines as well as parts when the techs make repairs but that doesn’t appear to be the case as evidenced by some people having multiple failures.

So my amateur opinion is that the flaw is in the oil passage ways inside the block. But what do I know??

Well all have tried to figure this one out .
I suggest that Jeep read this thread and whomever actually has the correct guess. (Ater they figure it out ) then that person gets a new Gladiator !!
Sounds fair to me look at all the work it will save them having to have all those cams made.. hmm wait a minute they are making bank off of those cams coming out of trucks not under warranty

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[ShadowsPapa]

Well all have tried to figure this one out .
I suggest that Jeep read this thread and whomever actually has the correct guess. (Ater they figure it out ) then that person gets a new Gladiator !!
Sounds fair to me look at all the work it will save them having to have all those cams made.. hmm wait a minute they are making bank off of those cams coming out of trucks not under warranty

FCA isn't making squat off the cams........... there's middle-men (and women LOL), dealerships, whatever involved. By the time they buy the cams, stock them, ship them to the depots, then they get shipped again to a dealership who also makes money off them, there's not a lot involved as far as profit for FCA.
No one makes a lot of money, but a lot of people make a little money on each one.

I also suspect - besides all of "reasons" tossed out by others, and some could be pretty close, who knows, that there's a bit of "if we do this, then that happens and we have to then make this change" and so on. For every change in one place, there's the possibility of unintended consequences.

 

[Hootbro]

I also suspect - besides all of "reasons" tossed out by others, and some could be pretty close, who knows, that there's a bit of "if we do this, then that happens and we have to then make this change" and so on. For every change in one place, there's the possibility of unintended consequences.

I would think by now that FCA has direct knowledge of what the main root cause is. I have my suspicions though that since there has not been a rolling part revision to address it, whatever the actual fix may be is probably something major like needing a new heavily revised engine or major sub part like a new head but it will not be backwards compatible to fix current engines that have this problem.

It has all the tells that FCA is managing this by warranty attrition because that it is still cheaper than doing a service campaign to fix it once and for all. It is too bad this problem does not rise to the level of a safety recall to force them like the current GM 6.2 engine problem.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I would think by now that FCA has direct knowledge of what the main root cause is. I have my suspicions though that since there has not been a rolling part revision to address it, whatever the actual fix may be is probably something major like needing a new heavily revised engine or major sub part like a new head but it will not be backwards compatible to fix current engines that have this problem.

It has all the tells that FCA is managing this by warranty attrition because that it is still cheaper than doing a service campaign to fix it once and for all. It is too bad this problem does not rise to the level of a safety recall to force them like the current GM 6.2 engine problem.

Can't disagree because there are "tells", it's very plausible. The numbers are very small as a percentage of total units, but large as far as an actual number because of the number of total units.

I've tossed around in my head some "what-ifs" - say it's mostly right head because of the fact the cam lobe travels farther between "squirt" from exhaust lash adjuster and contact with the follower..... if that were the case, there's really only one solution - a head design that aimed oil at the follower as it makes contact with the lobe. I've not found a way to design the follower to "oil itself" like a standard rocker arm does on other engines.
It would almost have to be a major part change.
And with the 3.6 being long in tooth, the aim to more hybrids and so on, what are the chances any real major changes take place?

As far as the other - maybe the difference is that the GM engine can blow and die pretty quickly with almost no warnings or signs where these almost always have a tell-tale sign - the dreaded deep valvetrain tick, then misfires, then failure.
I know - now we're digging into nit-picking, even semantics........... and the numbers as far as percentages may enter into this. (not having crunched any numbers)

 

[Hootbro]

Can't disagree because there are "tells", it's very plausible. The numbers are very small as a percentage of total units, but large as far as an actual number because of the number of total units.

I've tossed around in my head some "what-ifs" - say it's mostly right head because of the fact the cam lobe travels farther between "squirt" from exhaust lash adjuster and contact with the follower..... if that were the case, there's really only one solution - a head design that aimed oil at the follower as it makes contact with the lobe. I've not found a way to design the follower to "oil itself" like a standard rocker arm does on other engines.
It would almost have to be a major part change.
And with the 3.6 being long in tooth, the aim to more hybrids and so on, what are the chances any real major changes take place?

As far as the other - maybe the difference is that the GM engine can blow and die pretty quickly with almost no warnings or signs where these almost always have a tell-tale sign - the dreaded deep valvetrain tick, then misfires, then failure.
I know - now we're digging into nit-picking, even semantics........... and the numbers as far as percentages may enter into this. (not having crunched any numbers)

Something just does not drag out this long not knowing what the fix is. I think FCA knows what it is, but they are not wanting to shoulder that cost.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Something just does not drag out this long not knowing what the fix is. I think FCA knows what it is, but they are not wanting to shoulder that cost.

10 years, hmmm, that does seem like a long time, I guess.

 

[Stan H]

10 or 5 or 8 .
2015,2018 or 2020

 

[ShadowsPapa]

10 or 5 or 8 .
2015,2018 or 2020

10 years for the Pentastar 3.6 PUG with this type of valve train (VVL)

2015 MODEL YEAR doesn't count in this. That's been resolved.
The first VVL 3.6 with this type of system (and subsequent failures) was built in 2015 for the 2016 model year.
So we're not quite on 10 model years, but are on 10 production years.

Yeah, picky picky picky...........

In any case, it is quite a long time.
A few of us out there aren't 100% "convinced" that all of these are the exact same CAUSE (even with the same RESULTS) because when you are operating on the bleeding edge, any little thing can toss a monkey wrench into things. It's just not capable of surviving certain extremes or imperfections like some can.

 

[Stan H]

10 years for the Pentastar 3.6 PUG with this type of valve train (VVL)

2015 MODEL YEAR doesn't count in this. That's been resolved.
The first VVL 3.6 with this type of system (and subsequent failures) was built in 2015 for the 2016 model year.
So we're not quite on 10 model years, but are on 10 production years.

Yeah, picky picky picky...........

In any case, it is quite a long time.
A few of us out there aren't 100% "convinced" that all of these are the exact same CAUSE (even with the same RESULTS) because when you are operating on the bleeding edge, any little thing can toss a monkey wrench into things. It's just not capable of surviving certain extremes or imperfections like some can.

I would add to that last sentence..not without maintaining a clean quality grade motor oil and proper maintenance. I know I am actually behind on one service as I type this hope to resolve over the coming weeks. Its amazing how the miles rack up.

 

[davey]

I don’t have a lot of knowledge regarding rebuilt engines. Not sure of what precisely would be different about a getting one from Mopar and Jeep dealer versus another company. I see that Mopar offers similar 3year 100k warranty. From what I understand there is only one maker of the cam. Rockers not sure. So the point of failure that I experienced could be the same in both.

Rubitrux and Americas Most Wanted offer V8 HEMI swaps. For a 5.7 engine with new transmission, Rubitrux advertises around 30k installed. For that price I could get (3) 3.6’s installed. I have found the 3.6 adequate for my use
If you go to Jaspers or Fraser website, you can find local installers to your area.

Jasper is outstanding with a 3yr 100k warranty also transferable have used them many times

 

[Blade1668]

After reading though this thread... I guess I'm driving around with a 3.6 ready to hand grenade it's self. 101406 miles spent more than half of the miles towing trailers up to 5k, running slightly larger than stock tires, in hot weather, up & down hills, down shifting to 3-4 gears and rpms in 5k range oftenly plus with topper and probably 1000-1400 lbs of s### loaded most of the time. My one utility trailer is made by a company that their main business is building then to haul commercial mowing equipment and like equipment, so over built with either 1 or 2 3500 and 5k axles. Mine was built with additional reinforcements and single axle but narrow enough not to fit anything ridiculously heavy "aka" a car, truck or farm tractor. To identify the over built (read heavy) a picture of the hitch end.

Now, some other perspective, I don't try to drive it like a sports car racing from traffic light to light or stop signs. I change oil & filter before the maintenance is at 10%, I don't try to run the fuel down to E. before filling up.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

After reading though this thread... I guess I'm driving around with a 3.6 ready to hand grenade it's self. 101406 miles spent more than half of the miles towing trailers up to 5k, running slightly larger than stock tires, in hot weather, up & down hills, down shifting to 3-4 gears and rpms in 5k range oftenly plus with topper and probably 1000-1400 lbs of s### loaded most of the time. My one utility trailer is made by a company that their main business is building then to haul commercial mowing equipment and like equipment, so over built with either 1 or 2 3500 and 5k axles. Mine was built with additional reinforcements and single axle but narrow enough not to fit anything ridiculously heavy "aka" a car, truck or farm tractor. To identify the over built (read heavy) a picture of the hitch end.

Now, some other perspective, I don't try to drive it like a sports car racing from traffic light to light or stop signs. I change oil & filter before the maintenance is at 10%, I don't try to run the fuel down to E. before filling up.

Yeah, you'd better use that trailer to carry a spare engine.

She's gonna blow, cap'n!

 

[DAVECS2]

There are a fair bit of 3.6L that make it out alive, with out damage or mild wear. The problem with the internet is people mostly come here for advice on broken or under performing stuff. This thread will tell you about the propensity for the 3.6L to eat a valvetrain. It is a sore subject with me because I was really wanting to make an chrysler ecoboostish platform. It just got very difficult and was more work than fun, and caused great personal expense.

What would be good to know. The oil and filters you use, ambient temps you run in. What is your cruising RPM, unload and trailered. I have inspected engines with 60-70K on the clock, before supercharging them, they looked factory. I know they can make it there. Also Chryslers latest stuff, as well as mine, keep.the cam movements and timing in locations that cause less wear.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

There are a fair bit of 3.6L that make it out alive, with out damage or mild wear. The problem with the internet is people mostly come here for advice on broken or under performing stuff. This thread will tell you about the propensity for the 3.6L to eat a valvetrain. It is a sore subject with me because I was really wanting to make an chrysler ecoboostish platform. It just got very difficult and was more work than fun, and caused great personal expense.

What would be good to know. The oil and filters you use, ambient temps you run in. What is your cruising RPM, unload and trailered. I have inspected engines with 60-70K on the clock, before supercharging them, they looked factory. I know they can make it there. Also Chryslers latest stuff, as well as mine, keep.the cam movements and timing in locations that cause less wear.

Why do ambient temps matter? Do we see more in TX than WI?
All things being equal, I see people from FL and TX report the same oil and coolant temps I see.
I found it interesting all the people say oh but it's so hot down here and then post oil and coolant temps cooler than mine.

 

[Blade1668]

There are a fair bit of 3.6L that make it out alive, with out damage or mild wear. The problem with the internet is people mostly come here for advice on broken or under performing stuff. This thread will tell you about the propensity for the 3.6L to

What would be good to know. The oil and filters you use, ambient temps you run in. What is your cruising RPM, unload and trailered. I have inspected engines with 60-70K on the clock, before supercharging them, they looked factory. I know they can make it there. Also Chryslers latest stuff, as well as mine, keep.the cam movements and timing in locations that cause less wear.

( I cut out some of your reply to shorten this post. )
Engine coolant has got up to 230°F, and transmission I believe I've seen 212°F but normally just over 200° normally, engine oil temperature is listed later. The engine rpms I try to keep on lower side of 3000 mostly. And also I use cruise control and stay at consistently speeds, right at speed limit or a few under. (A likely reason why my 05 Wrangler still runs good at over 256000 miles too.) in some areas I'd likely give "Bill" AKA (ShadowsPapa) fits on tracking of stuff that's not important. I track all my fuel use in my Jeeps.
What I use is Valvoline 0/20 synthetic oil and Mopar oil filters. I order or buy a few at a time and normally keep a few on hand along with enough oil to do a complete oil change.

Also I send off a sample of oil for testing, nothing of concern has been seen in results. I do feel concerned with the oil temperatures I have seen while towing (to me) up to 239°F and then have smelled some burning of oil occasionally. Normally that has been driving in hilly areas when towing trailer with 4-wheeler, probably around 2000 lbs weight, with noticably drop off in mpgs. I have also noticed some leakage of oil from the right side cam sensor/ switch. I've cleaned it off and not noticed much since.
On the ambient temperatures from stupidly cold below freezing to 100°F with high humidity of S.E. AKA: average conditions of driving to Houston TX. MS, AL. Along with TN, KY, W.V., FL. up in IN. and IL. So not really the hot & dry climates or altitude of CO. much. During one trip I was in 4 high from Nashville TN to E. KY towing, the trailer likely gained weight to likely 5000-6000 lbs. range and the Gladiator picked up a substantial weight from ice and snow too.

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