3.6 pentastar 2020 major problems - Is the newer engine better in 2025 etc.

[ShadowsPapa]

It is one of things that you had to been in the moment back then. Prior to 2013, oil coolers and housing were leaking a hell of a lot more than today and past 2014. Also in 2014, the heads were revised to addressed dropped valve seat issue and a few other things. The 2014+ while not 100 perfect, they were an improvement. The PUG in relation to the Wrangler would not be a thing for 4 more years.

I know it that OCD brain of yours you are screaming to correct it every time it is mentioned of "Gen 3", I would let it go.

LOL - I had no idea at all where the heck Gen3 was coming from - what in the world is it?

We could be on Gen 4 since the cylinder head issue was resolved during the 2012 production year, eh? HA

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[Hootbro]

LOL - I had no idea at all where the heck Gen3 was coming from - what in the world is it?

We could be on Gen 4 since the cylinder head issue was resolved during the 2012 production year, eh? HA
Seats and guides were changed in production engines during the last half of that year.

It is what it is, quit overthinking it. Sometime shit just gets out in the zeitgeist.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

It is what it is, quit overthinking it. Sometime shit just gets out in the zeitgeist.

Was joking about it - sort of poking at it (it's a joke, son - HA).
It's honestly the very fist time I'd ever even read that term in all of the Jeep forums I've been in over the years. That's all.

 

[NC_Overland]

I honestly trust my 2020 more than the new ones.

 

[Bully4]

I've never seen the oil journals on the head, but I do wonder if there is some type of restriction due to misaligned holes. Or....could the oil be "coking up" due to close proximity to exhaust heat?

Keep in mind that excessive rpms at cold temps could send the filter into bypass mode. This could allow unfiltered oil to be pushed through the engine.

I'll never forget my old Toyota engine. Something got into the main oil feed to the cam bearings. It ate up a bearing journal and the cam. Damn thing made noise but still ran fine. It was a different era for electronics though.

I am fairly certain that the manufacturer has identified the problem. However, they are probably within their business model on warranty costs.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I've never seen the oil journals on the head, but I do wonder if there is some type of restriction due to misaligned holes. Or....could the oil be "coking up" due to close proximity to exhaust heat?

Keep in mind that excessive rpms at cold temps could send the filter into bypass mode. This could allow unfiltered oil to be pushed through the engine.

I'll never forget my old Toyota engine. Something got into the main oil feed to the cam bearings. It ate up a bearing journal and the cam. Damn thing made noise but still ran fine. It was a different era for electronics though.

I am fairly certain that the manufacturer has identified the problem. However, they are probably within their business model on warranty costs.

The cam lobes are oiled by spray from the exhaust valve lash adjusters and followers.

Cold temps are why I don't deviate from the 0W
I want oil there FAST.
I don't worry about unfiltered because I change frequently enough there's really not much in it to worry about. And the 0W will be fine on a cold start.
I'm not really worried about oil "coking up" because the passages aren't really near the exhaust - and the oil flow is pretty constantly moving.
The oil galleries are in the center of the head, opposite side of the exhaust cam as the exhaust valves themselves.

 

[Stan H]

Mines over 3000 every single day . Aint had not trouble .

 

[DAVECS2]

What gears, what tire size, what payload, towing no towing. How long is continuous 3000 rpm achieved? How often is your oil changed. What is the ambient temperature.

37s with 410s probably fine
500 lbs in the bed fine
Towing 3400 lbs fine
Ambient temps 95f or less with low humidity fine
Interstate travel at 2400 fine

My particular case, first failure, supercharged (this creates heat), towing loads of 6k to 7k. Lifted on 37s 410 gears, 90F in the midwest. Habitually carrying payload or more in the bed. Hard driving with quick acceleration, truck consistently running 240f water temps. 50%-60% of an hour near 3000 rpm.

Changed damaged side, 15k later both sides fail. Then did research and found my oil solenoids were sludged up and the position sensors were reading slow due to being caked with metal. Also found drivers side phazer limited in movement due to metal debris.

If your using your truck like a truck and extending oil changes your odds increase for problems. If hour driving your jeep like a jeep, probably ok.

 

[JT1]

What gears, what tire size, what payload, towing no towing. How long is continuous 3000 rpm achieved? How often is your oil changed. What is the ambient temperature.

37s with 410s probably fine
500 lbs in the bed fine
Towing 3400 lbs fine
Ambient temps 95f or less with low humidity fine
Interstate travel at 2400 fine

My particular case, first failure, supercharged (this creates heat), towing loads of 6k to 7k. Lifted on 37s 410 gears, 90F in the midwest. Habitually carrying payload or more in the bed. Hard driving with quick acceleration, truck consistently running 240f water temps. 50%-60% of an hour near 3000 rpm.

Changed damaged side, 15k later both sides fail. Then did research and found my oil solenoids were sludged up and the position sensors were reading slow due to being caked with metal. Also found drivers side phazer limited in movement due to metal debris.

If your using your truck like a truck and extending oil changes your odds increase for problems. If hour driving your jeep like a jeep, probably ok.

DAVECS2, I run RPMs above 2500 constantly (37's w5.13s and a 6spd) My cruise rpm at 75 is near 2600 and I haven't had a single issue with this jeep.

I did have both intake cams on a mostly stock JK replaced at 40k miles.

Mine JT only runs about 200* water temp until I'm stuck in traffic for a long time, and then it will hit 220 for a few minutes.

Out in the rocks, it was seeing 235* until I started running the AC full time.

Oil temp I have never seen over 210*

Maybe it is a temp issue? The automatics all seem to run hotter than the manuals.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Maybe it is a temp issue? The automatics all seem to run hotter than the manuals.

Not that I've noticed.

Mine JT only runs about 200* water temp

Mine is automatic and depending on when I look, may be 192-195 but if I leave all of the gauges on the ORP in the radio, I see it run from 190-ish up to 210 then back down. It never stays the same. it's up and down a lot, but it's not untypical to see it under 200 - and it's automatic.
I don't really care about the water temp - it's oil temperatures I watch. Some of the oil is running a lot hotter than what you see on the gauge - some places the oil can run 30, 40 or more degrees over what you see on the gauge. That's normal.

How often is your oil changed. What is the ambient temperature.

5,000-7,000 miles.
Ambient temps - what day?

How long is continuous 3000 rpm achieved?

It depends - can be a couple of miles when not towing on a typical day with some wind if I'm heading up to Altoona. It's all uphill from here. Lots of hills, so it's fairly often it hits 3,000 for a while. Sometimes that "while" is a couple of minutes, sometimes longer if towing. In that case, it's in and out of above 3,000 a lot and might run above 3,000 for a few miles, then back down again.
Tow 5,000 but not REAL regular, actually infrequently, when I do, it's for a few hours at a time.

 

[DAVECS2]

I think oil temp is probably a fairly good indicator of, if and when the propensity for this issue elevated.

If your running high oil temps on a frequent basis, it is more likely. Looking back on my thesis above, that is essentially what it boils down to.

If your on the high lift cam alot it will add to the elevated temps, also giving indication things are gettng dicey. Now that I think about it, my make alot of good sense to put an oil temp gauge on these rides. If you start seeing temps over the 230F range, you need to back down, and sooner than later change your oil. I imagine this would mitigate a number of failures.

My love affair with my jeep ended when I realized that me using it for double duty as a medium duty truck and cross country hauler was not optimum. If those activities would not put its longevity in direct peril, maybe a different story.

 

[WK2JT]

2020 (we already know that year was a problem child for this issue)
3.6 assembled in MX
5.13’s
37” tires
2” Mopar lift
Less than 2k miles towing less than 1k lbs.
500 initial oil change and 5K after afterwards with Penzoil 0w20 religiously
Mixed driving and off-roading between GA and CO.

Right side intake cam toast at 42k

Installed the Baxter and switched to heavier weight oil, currently running Penzoil SRT 0w40. ~10k miles since… time may or may not tell. Who knows.

 

[DAVECS2]

42K is when I lost my right side cam 2020

 

[smlobx]

What I can’t seem to figure out (and it seems no one else can) is why the vast majority of these failure occurs on the right side. You would think that both sides would have been designed and machined the same way but the data would indicate otherwise.

If the Jeep engineers actually knew the root cause of the malfunction you would think that they would quietly make the design changes to the failed components and start rolling them out in production engines as well as parts when the techs make repairs but that doesn’t appear to be the case as evidenced by some people having multiple failures.

So my amateur opinion is that the flaw is in the oil passage ways inside the block. But what do I know??

 

[Utahdirt]

What I can’t seem to figure out (and it seems no one else can) is why the vast majority of these failure occurs on the right side. You would think that both sides would have been designed and machined the same way but the data would indicate otherwise.

If the Jeep engineers actually knew the root cause of the malfunction you would think that they would quietly make the design changes to the failed components and start rolling them out in production engines as well as parts when the techs make repairs but that doesn’t appear to be the case as evidenced by some people having multiple failures.

So my amateur opinion is that the flaw is in the oil passage ways inside the block. But what do I know??

Manufacturers look at problems like this in very different ways than owners. Warranty rates and trends vs cost analysis to correct any design problems. Cam/lifter/follower/MDS issues for Stellantis cross several product lines with wide differences in mileage before failures and different engine families. Ford and GM are balls deep in similar issues for years also. Let's blame the bean counters and Wall Street. The marketing scheme seems to be never own a car out of warranty.

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