First Real World Gladiator Towing Impressions & Results (7000 lbs)

[Billy]

This would be my question to those more modernly mechanically minded ( I did votech in the 80’s and a lot has changed since then)
1) so TFL said towing suffered at altitude with the naturally aspirated pentastar and would be better with the turbo 4 in that arena.
2) between my JKU and my current jk, I had a v6 challenger. Same pentastar tuned a little different making 305 or 310? HP in sport mode (had the track pack on it that tweeked the tune and shift points) and seen a post at that time in a forum or somewhere where a company in Texas was putting a big turbo, air box, & exhaust on the pentastars and pushing them close to 385HP.

So here’s my question;
Would installing said turbo on a JT give it enough ass to actually pull 7k at altitude??

The Pentastar would eat itself alive. Was not designed for the extra oomph.

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[Vegas_Sirk]

This would be my question to those more modernly mechanically minded ( I did votech in the 80’s and a lot has changed since then)
1) so TFL said towing suffered at altitude with the naturally aspirated pentastar and would be better with the turbo 4 in that arena.
2) between my JKU and my current jk, I had a v6 challenger. Same pentastar tuned a little different making 305 or 310? HP in sport mode (had the track pack on it that tweeked the tune and shift points) and seen a post at that time in a forum or somewhere where a company in Texas was putting a big turbo, air box, & exhaust on the pentastars and pushing them close to 385HP.

So here’s my question;
Would installing said turbo on a JT give it enough ass to actually pull 7k at altitude??

For that kind of money you might as well wait for the Diesel at least it will come with a warranty and probably still make more TQ.

 

[Skyler7381]

at time 2:35 in this video, this guy quickly shows the fuel door where you can see its a puch to open style and what looks like a locking gas cap. hope this helps

What's the link to the video, I don't see one.

 

[WXman]

This would be my question to those more modernly mechanically minded ( I did votech in the 80’s and a lot has changed since then)
1) so TFL said towing suffered at altitude with the naturally aspirated pentastar and would be better with the turbo 4 in that arena.
2) between my JKU and my current jk, I had a v6 challenger. Same pentastar tuned a little different making 305 or 310? HP in sport mode (had the track pack on it that tweeked the tune and shift points) and seen a post at that time in a forum or somewhere where a company in Texas was putting a big turbo, air box, & exhaust on the pentastars and pushing them close to 385HP.

So here’s my question;
Would installing said turbo on a JT give it enough ass to actually pull 7k at altitude??

When the Pentastar was developed, the news was that they were designing it so that a factory turbo could be added for certain applications. So I don't believe that it will "eat itself alive" and grenade automatically. Also, aftermarket companies have been putting turbos and superchargers on Pentastars for years with great results. I've seen them do 450 HP and the owners claim the engine holds up to it just fine.

Obviously a blown P-star would wipe the floor with a factory Hurricane engine. But, you'd be doing so at the loss of factory warranty whereas the 2.0 H'cane still has it's warranty intact.

 

[Billy]

When the Pentastar was developed, the news was that they were designing it so that a factory turbo could be added for certain applications. So I don't believe that it will "eat itself alive" and grenade automatically. Also, aftermarket companies have been putting turbos and superchargers on Pentastars for years with great results. I've seen them do 450 HP and the owners claim the engine holds up to it just fine.

Obviously a blown P-star would wipe the floor with a factory Hurricane engine. But, you'd be doing so at the loss of factory warranty whereas the 2.0 H'cane still has it's warranty intact.

I hadn't heard anything about the P-star being designed for forced induction, in fact I've only heard the contrary. Not saying you're wrong, just not admitting to being wrong myself.

 

[12BNNT]

Was just curious more than anything. Kinda wondering why FCA hasn’t used turbos more. Granted the Raptors are full sized trucks like their F-150 siblings they’re based on but both use turbo V6 engines with pretty good pulling power. Other companies are using turbos as well to get 6 cylinder mpg and v8 power (sort of) so I guess I’m questioning why FCA hasn’t done the same with the Ram and Gladiator. It would also help with the engine starving for air at altitude when towing as well.

 

[MaximusDecimusMeridius]

I hadn't heard anything about the P-star being designed for forced induction, in fact I've only heard the contrary. Not saying you're wrong, just not admitting to being wrong myself.

The pentastar was designed with FI in mind although it's never been implemented. There was an article in jp magazine about that.

The high compression ratio gives you big gains at lower psi

 

[WXman]

I hadn't heard anything about the P-star being designed for forced induction, in fact I've only heard the contrary. Not saying you're wrong, just not admitting to being wrong myself.

Yeah when FCA took over they wanted a powerful and modern engine that could be used across all their platforms, including Maserati sports cars. The plan was to use it in N/A form for "common" vehicles like Jeeps, sedans, vans and use it in forced induction trim for higher end cars like the Challenger or even Maserati models. Like Maximus said, they never got around to adding the turbo to it. But the Pentastar is a VERY robust engine with high compression, open deck block, etc.

I believe that's why it's the only engine they're going to use in the Gladiator (until EcoDiesel arrives). Since Gladiator is expected to haul/tow double what the Wrangler can, they needed an engine with the strength to meet criteria.

Was just curious more than anything. Kinda wondering why FCA hasn’t used turbos more. Granted the Raptors are full sized trucks like their F-150 siblings they’re based on but both use turbo V6 engines with pretty good pulling power. Other companies are using turbos as well to get 6 cylinder mpg and v8 power (sort of) so I guess I’m questioning why FCA hasn’t done the same with the Ram and Gladiator. It would also help with the engine starving for air at altitude when towing as well.

I think there are several reasons. But the main ones are:

-Development costs
-Turbo engines in Ford trucks have proven to get the same MPG unloaded and less MPG loaded, netting no real world benefit
-Turbo engines in Ford trucks have service bulletin and recall lists that are a country mile long
-Turbo engines individually sell at lower rates than the 5.0L/6.2L V8 in Ford trucks, indicating that the appetitite for small turbo engines in the U.S. isn't what Ford hoped it would be.

At the end of the day, when you look at the 2.0L turbo in the Jeep Wrangler, for example, it's a really poor option. It's an automatic $3,000 price increase, it requires plug changes every 30k miles because the direct fuel injection runs so dirty, it recommends higher octane gasoline, it has a LOT more equipment installed which adds potential failure points in the future, it has a very narrow torque band, it has turbo lag, and it has slightly more torque at the loss of horsepower netting an overall similar acceleration. To me that's a terrible trade-off and I think that consumers are going with what is proven and simple these days.

That may be why FCA has taken this long to dip their feet in that water....

 

[steffen707]

This would be my question to those more modernly mechanically minded ( I did votech in the 80’s and a lot has changed since then)
1) so TFL said towing suffered at altitude with the naturally aspirated pentastar and would be better with the turbo 4 in that arena.
2) between my JKU and my current jk, I had a v6 challenger. Same pentastar tuned a little different making 305 or 310? HP in sport mode (had the track pack on it that tweeked the tune and shift points) and seen a post at that time in a forum or somewhere where a company in Texas was putting a big turbo, air box, & exhaust on the pentastars and pushing them close to 385HP.

So here’s my question;
Would installing said turbo on a JT give it enough ass to actually pull 7k at altitude??

Too many variables for the average Joe yo calculate. Sounds like cooling is a big limiter. More power more heat, maybe? Maybe some info about there about water injection, especially when you're under load for extended periods (mountain pass driving).

 

[steffen707]

Yeah when FCA took over they wanted a powerful and modern engine that could be used across all their platforms, including Maserati sports cars. The plan was to use it in N/A form for "common" vehicles like Jeeps, sedans, vans and use it in forced induction trim for higher end cars like the Challenger or even Maserati models. Like Maximus said, they never got around to adding the turbo to it. But the Pentastar is a VERY robust engine with high compression, open deck block, etc.

I believe that's why it's the only engine they're going to use in the Gladiator (until EcoDiesel arrives). Since Gladiator is expected to haul/tow double what the Wrangler can, they needed an engine with the strength to meet criteria.



I think there are several reasons. But the main ones are:

-Development costs
-Turbo engines in Ford trucks have proven to get the same MPG unloaded and less MPG loaded, netting no real world benefit
-Turbo engines in Ford trucks have service bulletin and recall lists that are a country mile long
-Turbo engines individually sell at lower rates than the 5.0L/6.2L V8 in Ford trucks, indicating that the appetitite for small turbo engines in the U.S. isn't what Ford hoped it would be.

At the end of the day, when you look at the 2.0L turbo in the Jeep Wrangler, for example, it's a really poor option. It's an automatic $3,000 price increase, it requires plug changes every 30k miles because the direct fuel injection runs so dirty, it recommends higher octane gasoline, it has a LOT more equipment installed which adds potential failure points in the future, it has a very narrow torque band, it has turbo lag, and it has slightly more torque at the loss of horsepower netting an overall similar acceleration. To me that's a terrible trade-off and I think that consumers are going with what is proven and simple these days.

That may be why FCA has taken this long to dip their feet in that water....

I thought FI engines were traditionally closed deck... . Anyways, sounds like with the 3.0 Tornado rumors that pentastar won't get turbo.

 

[DesertDog]

I wonder if consideration was given to the V6 E Torque as used in the Ram 1500.

Not sure if that would’ve been viable.

 

[DesertDog]

… Additionally, in reference to the Raptor, The short wheelbase Raptor ( same length and price point) only claims to tow 6000 pounds. Jeep making a claim of being able to tow over 7000 sure draws attention to the power deficiency.

 

[Tortooga Custom Works]

The important thing to remember is that numbers are usually just that, numbers. They're the max "suggested" / "allowed" under very specific conditions. That's the case for every single number - HP, max speed, payload, towing, MPG.
How many people are actually going to get those exact numbers in regular use?

If you actually need to tow 7000 pounds regularly - I'm going to go out and say, the jeep is not for you - at least not for that towing.
But if it's once in awhile, you'll probably be fine.

500HP to the wheels. Wow! That's cute... under what circumstances did you get that number, and how often will you actually need and use that? or better yet, how often will I actually need or use that?

 

[GoneTopless]

I read today the new Toyota Tundra/Tacoma will have turbos

While the Gladiator theoretically manages my payload of 5-6K I’m going with a loaded RAM Laramie or Rebel. Prices are just too nice to ignore and it will manage the winter and mud almost as well as the JT. I’m in my early 40s and I just need not to worry about it.

Love the look of the JT but not the price, comfort, towing, wandering, etc


Good luck lads - great forum you keep alive here

 

[bangolia]

I read today the new Toyota Tundra/Tacoma will have turbos

While the Gladiator theoretically manages my payload of 5-6K I’m going with a loaded RAM Laramie or Rebel. Prices are just too nice to ignore and it will manage the winter and mud almost as well as the JT. I’m in my early 40s and I just need not to worry about it.

Love the look of the JT but not the price, comfort, towing, wandering, etc


Good luck lads - great forum you keep alive here

You should change your screen name to left the top on

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