New JT Gladiator Steering Issue TSB 08-074-20 (for "Improved Steering Feel")

[JKABBQ]

Our second dealer ordered the parts for our Wrangler. Expect notice soon when they will be in.

It's different in Canada. FCA Jeep Canadian Customer Care says the jeep must be seen by a dealer; the Service Manager has the say. FCA CCC will not authorize the work themselves. However, they were incredible help finding a motivated dealer.

My appointment is first thing tomorrow morning and was done just over the phone. On my last oil change a few weeks ago I complained about steering being an issue and they said nothing was wrong with it and drove like other Jeeps. Perhaps because there’s notes on my complaint on file my appointment was booked and parts ordered without having to be seen again to confirm there’s an issue.

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[Shootist]

And that is the stopper. Every person thinks the TSB is the fix for their issue and they demand it. Turns out it's not always the issue, and it's actually something else. Or they don't have the issue at all and just want the fix just in case.

IF what you were saying was the way all dealers always did business then they would be doing every TSB on all the Jeeps all the time and Jeep would get a boat load of charge backs they have to somehow afford... mostly paying for fixes that weren't needed to begin with.

I understand your frustration, it's just mis-guided. Dealers have an obligation to do their due diligence to validate the claims.

I hate to draw swords and choose sides here but guess what. Contrary to what you think you know, you know nothing as it relates to law. If a TSB is issued as this one was which clearly stated the customer complaint, with a clear resolution a dealer has ZERO, yes ZERO legal recourse other than to adhere to the TSB....PERIOD... end of story. The only glimmer of hope they have is winning in a court of law. Warranties are not there to be scoffed at. To be clear here, I have no dog in the fight as I have yet to experience the issue in my Gladiator. However, I do understand where the comments are coming from as I have driven one with the issue before obtaining mine, so the issue is certainly present and possibly more widespread than some may think. I have no patience for dealer whacktasticjackasserie as I mentioned before and any of true Jeep owners and lovers of the brand, that are out there feel you must think like a dealer and wish to side with a dealers right to refuse you warranty service... Well, you need your headS examined. You should be siding with your fellow Jeep enthusiasts and stop allowing dealerships to run roughshod over new and faithful Jeep followers.

Enough is enough. Entrap the dumbarse service department that has decided a tech knows a vehicle better than the owner and execute them in a court of law. It would not take long for dealerships to begin offering the service they should have offered in the first place.

Now I do understand there will be some customers out there that absolutely want the TSB done, even though they may not even need it. However, those are the exception, not the rule and there is never an acceptable moment that a dealer or the service department should try covering for the manufacturer on a warranty issue. It simply makes no sense whatsoever. What does the dealership have to lose on denying a claim versus doing the work if a customer states it should be done. To think a dealer has a right of denial on a TSB is only living out a power trip. DO THE DARN WORK!

Any of you still in denial about the need for this work being done are living the Moto, “It all makes perfect sense if you just don’t think about it.”

Mic dropped, soapbox burned.

 

[HWKIGRL]

I hate to draw swords and choose sides here but guess what. Contrary to what you think you know, you know nothing as it relates to law. If a TSB is issued as this one was which clearly stated the customer complaint, with a clear resolution a dealer has ZERO, yes ZERO legal recourse other than to adhere to the TSB....PERIOD... end of story. The only glimmer of hope they have is winning in a court of law. Warranties are not there to be scoffed at. To be clear here, I have no dog in the fight as I have yet to experience the issue in my Gladiator. However, I do understand where the comments are coming from as I have driven one with the issue before obtaining mine, so the issue is certainly present and possibly more widespread than some may think. I have no patience for dealer whacktasticjackasserie as I mentioned before and any of true Jeep owners and lovers of the brand, that are out there feel you must think like a dealer and wish to side with a dealers right to refuse you warranty service... Well, you need your headS examined. You should be siding with your fellow Jeep enthusiasts and stop allowing dealerships to run roughshod over new and faithful Jeep followers.

Enough is enough. Entrap the dumbarse service department that has decided a tech knows a vehicle better than the owner and execute them in a court of law. It would not take long for dealerships to begin offering the service they should have offered in the first place.

Now I do understand there will be some customers out there that absolutely want the TSB done, even though they may not even need it. However, those are the exception, not the rule and there is never an acceptable moment that a dealer or the service department should try covering for the manufacturer on a warranty issue. It simply makes no sense whatsoever. What does the dealership have to lose on denying a claim versus doing the work if a customer states it should be done. To think a dealer has a right of denial on a TSB is only living out a power trip. DO THE DARN WORK!

Any of you still in denial about the need for this work being done are living the Moto, “It all makes perfect sense if you just don’t think about it.”

Mic dropped, soapbox burned.

whacktasticjackasserie!!! What else needs to be said!!!

 

[Chance_P]

Just dropped mine off for soft top replacement under warranty and they are checking the steering. Left a printed copy of the TSB on the passenger seat. Service advisor didn't come forward with any knowledge when I brought it up. I have 1.5" spacer up front, .75" in rear, 35's, Mopar 2" LCAs and Mopar 2" fox shocks. Hopefully they approve it and can get the parts before September 13th. (Moving to Colorado)

 

[tampahoosier]

I hate to draw swords and choose sides here but guess what. Contrary to what you think you know, you know nothing as it relates to law. If a TSB is issued as this one was which clearly stated the customer complaint, with a clear resolution a dealer has ZERO, yes ZERO legal recourse other than to adhere to the TSB....PERIOD... end of story. The only glimmer of hope they have is winning in a court of law. Warranties are not there to be scoffed at. To be clear here, I have no dog in the fight as I have yet to experience the issue in my Gladiator. However, I do understand where the comments are coming from as I have driven one with the issue before obtaining mine, so the issue is certainly present and possibly more widespread than some may think. I have no patience for dealer whacktasticjackasserie as I mentioned before and any of true Jeep owners and lovers of the brand, that are out there feel you must think like a dealer and wish to side with a dealers right to refuse you warranty service... Well, you need your headS examined. You should be siding with your fellow Jeep enthusiasts and stop allowing dealerships to run roughshod over new and faithful Jeep followers.

Enough is enough. Entrap the dumbarse service department that has decided a tech knows a vehicle better than the owner and execute them in a court of law. It would not take long for dealerships to begin offering the service they should have offered in the first place.

Now I do understand there will be some customers out there that absolutely want the TSB done, even though they may not even need it. However, those are the exception, not the rule and there is never an acceptable moment that a dealer or the service department should try covering for the manufacturer on a warranty issue. It simply makes no sense whatsoever. What does the dealership have to lose on denying a claim versus doing the work if a customer states it should be done. To think a dealer has a right of denial on a TSB is only living out a power trip. DO THE DARN WORK!

Any of you still in denial about the need for this work being done are living the Moto, “It all makes perfect sense if you just don’t think about it.”

Mic dropped, soapbox burned.

Nope, TSBs are not required to be fixed/payed for outside of warranty. Period.

Just because you think you know the law, doesn't mean you're correct and there is no need to be a smart ass about it either. Don't get TSBs confused with recalls which are required to be completed free of cost whether in or out of warranty. A TSB is covered while in warranty but as I said, that is assuming the issue exists to begin with. No need to write a long drawn out post that doesn't get to the point.

Recalls are safety related. TSBs cover components that don't relate to safety.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Nope, TSBs are not required to be fixed/payed for outside of warranty. Period.

Just because you think you know the law, doesn't mean you're correct and there is no need to be a smart ass about it either. Don't get TSBs confused with recalls which are required to be completed free of cost whether in or out of warranty. A TSB is covered while in warranty but as I said, that is assuming the issue exists to begin with. No need to write a long drawn out post that doesn't get to the point.

Recalls are safety related. TSBs cover components that don't relate to safety.

Why even mention outside the warranty period? No one said they had to be fixed for free OUTSIDE of warranty.
We know recalls are different - no one was comparing them. We know this is a TSB and not a recall. That's a given. No one is confused here. I've worked in the industry for decades - going back into the 70s.

No one said it was free when out of warranty.
READ the top lines of Page 3 of this TSB - it reads like almost all others do. It's VERY CLEARLY STATED, reimbursable under terms of warranty. That means if it's out of warranty, it's on the customer (unless there are records of complaints)

If you have the problem described, the factory says this is how to fix it.
Out of warranty, flat rates apply, customer pays.
In warranty, the TSB prescribes how the shop will be paid.

Again, maybe I need to do some scanning of the corporate letters, notes and instructions I have with my 3 shelves of books full of TSBs.
In warranty - the shop MUST make repairs according to the TSB - otherwise, you have recourse. It's that simple.
I don't know why the "out of warranty" bit is even coming up here. We are talking a very specific issue, a specific TSB and fix, and it's all pretty much right out of the gate. You have the issue or you don't, and if you do, you will have it from the time you buy the truck. Not a year later.
So the only discussion is really while within the warranty period. I suspect no one is going to wait until it's out of warranty to complain about steering issues.
Now - if the customer is on record as having complained - and nothing is done until outside of warranty, then the company must cover it. So if there's a problem, complain, get it on record. They have to deal with it then.
I did just that on another Jeep - had all sorts of weird issues as if it was shutting down while driving under certain conditions. It had the effect of feeling like you hit a patch of ice. I took it in at least 3 times over a fair period of time. IT was on record. Warranty expired - took it in again and again, and finally, I told them to keep it, let a tech drive it home to lunch, I didn't care if they had it a week. A couple of days later they found the issue, fixed it, no charge - out of warranty, because it was on record.

 

[tampahoosier]

Why even mention outside the warranty period? No one said they had to be fixed for free OUTSIDE of warranty.
We know recalls are different - no one was comparing them. We know this is a TSB and not a recall. That's a given. No one is confused here. I've worked in the industry for decades - going back into the 70s.

No one said it was free when out of warranty.
READ the top lines of Page 3 of this TSB - it reads like almost all others do. It's VERY CLEARLY STATED, reimbursable under terms of warranty. That means if it's out of warranty, it's on the customer (unless there are records of complaints)

If you have the problem described, the factory says this is how to fix it.
Out of warranty, flat rates apply, customer pays.
In warranty, the TSB prescribes how the shop will be paid.

Again, maybe I need to do some scanning of the corporate letters, notes and instructions I have with my 3 shelves of books full of TSBs.
In warranty - the shop MUST make repairs according to the TSB - otherwise, you have recourse. It's that simple.
I don't know why the "out of warranty" bit is even coming up here. We are talking a very specific issue, a specific TSB and fix, and it's all pretty much right out of the gate. You have the issue or you don't, and if you do, you will have it from the time you buy the truck. Not a year later.
So the only discussion is really while within the warranty period. I suspect no one is going to wait until it's out of warranty to complain about steering issues.
Now - if the customer is on record as having complained - and nothing is done until outside of warranty, then the company must cover it. So if there's a problem, complain, get it on record. They have to deal with it then.
I did just that on another Jeep - had all sorts of weird issues as if it was shutting down while driving under certain conditions. It had the effect of feeling like you hit a patch of ice. I took it in at least 3 times over a fair period of time. IT was on record. Warranty expired - took it in again and again, and finally, I told them to keep it, let a tech drive it home to lunch, I didn't care if they had it a week. A couple of days later they found the issue, fixed it, no charge - out of warranty, because it was on record.

I think we are actually arguing the same point here. TSBs are covered under warranty, no one is debating that. Your post appeared to disagree with my statement saying that a TSB is NOT required to be performed just because a customer walks in and says they have a problem. The shop still has a right (and should) to perform an inspection and determine if an issues exists and if it solved by the TSB. To me, you were disagreeing and saying they should just do it, which is not the way it works. Re-read my post, you will see what I said. I think it snow balled from there.

To your point yes, if someone comes in with the steering wander issue and the tech confirms it then I 100% agree, why bother throwing other fixes at it. As my post said, that's a tech/dealer just trying to get more money out of Jeep and the owner should call a different dealer.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I think we are actually arguing the same point here. TSBs are covered under warranty, no one is debating that. Your post appeared to disagree with my statement saying that a TSB is NOT required to be performed just because a customer walks in and says they have a problem. The shop still has a right (and should) to perform an inspection and determine if an issues exists and if it solved by the TSB. To me, you were disagreeing and saying they should just do it, which is not the way it works. Re-read my post, you will see what I said. I think it snow balled from there.

To your point yes, if someone comes in with the steering wander issue and the tech confirms it then I 100% agree, why bother throwing other fixes at it. As my post said, that's a tech/dealer just trying to get more money out of Jeep and the owner should call a different dealer.

Like often happens, people on forums find they aren't THAT far apart.......
Let's toss this complexity-adding bit in there - there are dealers who argue that there is NOTHING wrong with JTs that obviously DO have an issue. I've dealt with some members who have shown pics and videos and even miles away, based only on video, I see an issue. I see PLAY - their dealer said "it's a Jeep thing, nothing wrong" and refused to even bother with it.
That sort of a dealer is making this messy.
That sort of dealer told me my tonneau cover was fine - it's the way they are - basically said everything but "it's a Jeep thing". In the end, through jeepcares and the friendly forum members who sent me photos of THEIR covers sitting nice and snug and flat with no real sags, I got mine replaced and it's very nice now, no pooling, no sags, no flapping in the breeze and it would take a derecho storm to make it flap. Oh, wait, we just had a record derecho storm, never mind..........

So the problem happens when a person has a wandering JT or one with 1" - 2" play in the steering and the dealer says there's nothing wrong, it's a Jeep thing.
The TSB itself proves it's not a Jeep thing, and some dealers drive the thing around the block as a test - these show up on the highway at 55 or higher. I know of no dealer who will spend the time it takes to get TO a highway then drive it 10 miles. in my area, that will take a tech about an hour depending on traffic. They simply REFUSE. Some won't even drive the truck, some will, but around the lot or around town. For a tech to drive a JT on the highway at the dealers here, it's 10-15 minutes to get onto a highway and out of heavy traffic - at commute time, make that 30 minutes. Test drive for even just 5 miles - in the end, you have 45 minutes to an hour at some dealerships.
That's my beef - I can see the dealer not sending someone out on a drive in traffic on the highway for even 30 minutes, that's big money - maybe $50 worth of time - or more.
But - just sitting back and saying "it's a Jeep thing" or driving it on a really calm day on a flat stretch of road at a max of 40 mph - that won't find shxx.
Where I worked the boss insisted - take the car out of town on the highway, drive to 163, a couple miles out and back, then back to town. And that was after a basic tune-up. Who does that??

JT owners are frustrated that no dealer will bother BELIEVING them, or brush them off, or say "it's a Jeep thing, they are all that way". Well, if those on your lot are that way, start ordering parts now! LOL

 

[TheHops]

So, I just scheduled my appointment for the end of September (I'll be out of town for a week or two for work in early September). The first warning sign was that the tech didn't even know the TSB existed, and said they'd potentially also have to check ball joints, trac bars, maybe do an alignment, etc, etc, essentially way more than needs to be done for the scope of the fix according to the TSB. The other warning sign was the classic "It's a Jeep thing" statement. They want me to drop it off in the morning so that they can test drive it.

Has anyone else been through an in-depth inspection process, and if so, what was the verdict? My only pertinent modification is a set of 35s; nothing else has been modified.

Alternatively, does anyone know any good dealers in the Nashville area that are simply performing the fix, or at least are ordering parts? As of now, my appointment is a month out, then I'll have to wait for an order rotation, then schedule another appointment 1-2 weeks out. I'm probably looking at a 2-3 month turnaround by the time all is said and done. Not a great start to the process.

 

[DaveL]

CJ Off-Road discussing the TSB:

Good video.
It's not for death wobble.

JeepCares will help; they helped me. However, first dealer wouldn't order the parts. Second dealer did.

 

[Dreaded1]

Parts arrived at the dealership and I am dropping my truck off tomorrow.

 

[StingGraydiator]

While you're on the highway try to turn your wheel while it's in the "dead spot" and see if you start to go that way. I thought I may have had 1 as well but it's just VERY small adjustments it seems in that area. I've found that if the road is level and I turn just a small bit it will start going that way, it's like micro adjustments almost.

Yep, mine does exactly that.
I find its more noticeable when the Jeep is hot, like when it reaches 100 degrees here in TX.
Mine also developed a clunk today when hitting bumps at low speed and when turning the wheel in that "dead zone" when stopped. Im going to do some investigating after work and see if I can pinpoint it. Maybe something is loose.

 

[RAMCTFOLEY]

So, I just scheduled my appointment for the end of September (I'll be out of town for a week or two for work in early September). The first warning sign was that the tech didn't even know the TSB existed, and said they'd potentially also have to check ball joints, trac bars, maybe do an alignment, etc, etc, essentially way more than needs to be done for the scope of the fix according to the TSB. The other warning sign was the classic "It's a Jeep thing" statement. They want me to drop it off in the morning so that they can test drive it.

Has anyone else been through an in-depth inspection process, and if so, what was the verdict? My only pertinent modification is a set of 35s; nothing else has been modified.

Alternatively, does anyone know any good dealers in the Nashville area that are simply performing the fix, or at least are ordering parts? As of now, my appointment is a month out, then I'll have to wait for an order rotation, then schedule another appointment 1-2 weeks out. I'm probably looking at a 2-3 month turnaround by the time all is said and done. Not a great start to the process.

I live in Connecticut and Got the same thing from my dealer "its a jeep thing" I told them that wasn't acceptable. They did ask me to leave it for the day for inspection/test drive. Left it for 6 hours and they put about 8 miles on a test drive but they did approve the TSB work.

 

[TheHops]

I live in Connecticut and Got the same thing from my dealer "its a jeep thing" I told them that wasn't acceptable. They did ask me to leave it for the day for inspection/test drive. Left it for 6 hours and they put about 8 miles on a test drive but they did approve the TSB work.

Thanks for the response. That gives me a bit of hope at least.

I mainly got worried when he started talking about looking in to ball joints and all of that. I mean, if they find something else wrong, they can replace that too, but Jeep already identified a solution to the issue so I'd prefer them to just swap the steering gear and do the flash.

We'll see how it goes. Hopefully it fixes your issue!

 

[Shootist]

Nope, TSBs are not required to be fixed/payed for outside of warranty. Period.

Just because you think you know the law, doesn't mean you're correct and there is no need to be a smart ass about it either. Don't get TSBs confused with recalls which are required to be completed free of cost whether in or out of warranty. A TSB is covered while in warranty but as I said, that is assuming the issue exists to begin with. No need to write a long drawn out post that doesn't get to the point.

Recalls are safety related. TSBs cover components that don't relate to safety.

My apologies if you felt I was being a smart ass toward you. That is not/was not the intention.

I am not confused in the difference between a TSB and a recall. I don’t recall mentioning a TSB being done outside of warranty and the word recall never appeared in my post.

My post is more about some people defending a dealer that refuses service which is needed and required by law to be repaired if within the warranty period. There are people out there being denied this service because of a tech simply saying something like “It’s a Jeep thing.” I have seen too often fellow Jeep enthusiasts basically saying that it is the dealers right to refuse service when it isn’t in this particular case. The TSB clearly reads If a customer describes this condition, perform the following repair. It doesn’t say, have your tech confirm this with a road test. In fact the only validation portion on this TSB is if the customer states they experience the issue. Now, if the TSB contained a diagnostic procedure then I would say the dealership then has the right to do that process and based on the result either decide to complete or deny performing the repair.

My long drawn out point being follow the bulletin as it was written. They are not open to individual interpretation.

I should add of course that I do agree that those without the issue should not be entitled to having it done. But interpretations can vary and knowing the difference in a well behaved Gladiator and one with the issue should become easier as the techs experience it themselves.

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