Finally got my Jeep! Day 2 / 250 miles - Is All this Normal?

[firehog]

Hello, and congrats on your first Jeep. I agree with checking your tire pressure first. But if this is your first Jeep, some of this is par for the course. Solid axle trucks tend to drift a little. And Mud tires also are not the worlds best highway tire. Having owned CJ’s, YJ’s TJ’s and Jk’s I find the new JL/JT one of the best riding and quietest versions of a Jeep I’ve ever owned. That being said I have a Rubicon and I find the suspension much better than the sport I test drove. An upgraded steering damper may help as well.

I second the steering damper replacement. I replaced mine with a Fox before i lifted it and it made a huge difference. The OEM ones just flat suck.

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[JerseyMike]

Welcome to the forum.

FCA ships these Jeeps with the tires grossly overinflated by +10 PSI. Lowering the tire pressure down to the mid-30s will reduce the steering wander and ride stiffness.

The Rubicon you test drove likely had KO2 ATs, which is one of the most refined, comfortable and competent truck tires on the market. Willys comes with MTs, which are heavier, handle more loosely, ride more stiffly and roll louder on the road.

MTs look tough, so FCA uses them as part of the appearance package. But unless you plan to traverse the Rubicon trail twice a week, they are overkill for 90% of Jeep owners.

The good news is if you find those tires too jerky they can be easily swapped.

Good luck.

I agree about K02's, I have 35" KO2s with mopar lift and mine drives great (for a jeep, brick moving through the air), I did also install a fox steering stabilizer and it also helped a little bit (but it was not bad with stock stabilizer)

 

[Ogre_FL]

Welcome to the forum.

FCA ships these Jeeps with the tires grossly overinflated by +10 PSI. Lowering the tire pressure down to the mid-30s will reduce the steering wander and ride stiffness.

The Rubicon you test drove likely had KO2 ATs, which is one of the most refined, comfortable and competent truck tires on the market. Willys comes with MTs, which are heavier, handle more loosely, ride more stiffly and roll louder on the road.

MTs look tough, so FCA uses them as part of the appearance package. But unless you plan to traverse the Rubicon trail twice a week, they are overkill for 90% of Jeep owners.

The good news is if you find those tires too jerky they can be easily swapped.

Good luck.

Funny when I was test driving various trims of the Gladiator, having learned from my JL, I always checked to see what the tire pressures were.
Most were in the 40's. One was in the 60's
I was laughing about it with the sales guy and said they were not doing themselves any favors having them like that.

I have to say the MT tires turned me off from the Willys that I was originally considering and eventually put me in the 80th.
Unlike many, I did not want to have to swap wheels and/or tires.

I agree about the KO2's.
I ended up putting Rubicon take offs on my JL, and they are pretty quiet and smooth for a decent AT tire.

FWIW I drove my Gladiator home about 270 miles a few weeks ago.
I averaged 19 mpgs, but it was in the 50's.
Since getting home I am seeing 18 in mixed driving.

Oh, and I think it steers and drives wonderfully.
After some service bulletin work on my JL (track bars, not the box) I thought it drove well, but the Gladiator is just that much better.

 

[Mac]

Most MT tires are a huge compromise in regular driving and wet and snow driving, surprised Jeep still puts them on, I think they are the only car company putting them on oem.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Yes, but his description is not normal. I do 80-85 on the highway with none of that unacceptable crap.

Exactly.
No one should compare these to a modern SUV with IFS and RACK AND PINION, however, compared to any other vehicle, there is NO wander. I'll put my truck and my WJ up against almost any other vehicle other than a modern sports car or something with really tight rack and pinion.
No, they do not wander. They don't steer and handle the same, but there should be zero wander.
They have caster like any other vehicle - and that's what helps the tendency to stay straight.
They have camber like other vehicle - the difference is there is no camber change on bumps or turns like IFS.
They have the same SAI, the same scrub radius unless you blindly put on wheels with different backset and make other changes without doing any math.
They have the exact same steering gear.
I've run mine fast and hard.
Check the threads on the steering gear TSB - there's a couple of them, and look at how people describe their JT once that gear is replaced and things are properly aligned. NO wander, NO pull.

It should not wander, comparing or not. Wander is wander. And if you experience wander with these on an even decent highway, you have a problem.
Mine is also stable and true on gravel and muddy roads. I compare it to anything other than my wife's Grand Cherokee, but then look how SHORT that thing is, rack and pinion steering, IFS, build more like a sports car up front with Mercedes suspension technology.

My neighbor runs his 1949 Ford (with straight axle) around the country, drives to the salt flats, makes runs out there, and drives it back.
There's a Rambler with a straight axle up front that does some decent numbers on the track at Cordova each fall.

Don't compare these to a late model BMW or Mercedes or a Grand Cherokee or something really short with rack and pinion steering, but they should not wander, either.

My BMW’s both drive much better on these roads than my Jeep does. To be honest the X4 drives the best, the M2 behaves well but it’s a sports car and it’s set up aggressively.

Why in the world is anyone comparing these to a BMW or any SHORT wheel base or sports car or very expensive luxury car?
So if you are saying it's different than a BMW - oh, hell yes. But good grief these don't wander
Now it comes out you are comparing to a short BMW with luxury designed suspension and steering. How many of us here would be stupid enough to compare a TRUCK of any sort to a BMW! Now I gotta laugh.
The OP wasn't comparing to a high-dollar sports car or luxury car. No one should. That's just plain dumb to compare ANY truck, ANY true SUV to a BMW or Mercedes. Good grief.
So why does my 1960 Ford straight truck not handle as nice as my wife's Grand Cherokee?
Or bringing it closer to reality - why won't any of my trucks handle like my wife's Grand Cherokee?
As my wife would say - DUH.
It's not the straight axle - it's the PURPOSE of the damn thing.
It's a bloody truck, IFS or solid axle, doesn't matter.

And I agree with all the tire comments - you can't expect specialized tires like the mud tires to be like the A/Ts or H/Ts on the highway. That's also silly.

 

[olecarguy]

Haven’t noticed any discussions about your build date, or if there was any dealer added lift etc. installed. My thoughts are;

Steering Wander - can be a subjective subject. H
1) check air pressure as suggested.
2) even if there’s no play in steering, crawl under and see if you have the aluminum (silver looking)steering box. If you do, complain about the wandering and have the dealer do the steering box tsb. I had no play, but it still wandered, new steel box is a HUGH difference in a good way.
3) If lift was installed, especially if spring spacers were installed, your caster is most likely not enough. Ask dealer to check alignment to ensure caster is in spec. Moose lift of 2” includes slightly longer lower control arms to bring caster back in spec with only 2” of lift.

other items noted:
4) highway wind noise above 65, normal due to flat windshield. Several I drove were the same, worse with a soft top.
5) MPG’s validate speedo calibration using cellphone app like WAYS to eliminate that as a variable.
6) tire noise - with MTs, get used to it or swap em out. After test driving any one with MTs for this reason alone since I’m not a heavy off-roader. ATs were a much better compromise, AS are best as far as noise goes but offer little off-road traction. I settled on a swap to
Toto Open Country A/T III.
Enjoy the new rides and welcome.

 

[j.o.y.ride]

I’m sorry but all solid axle trucks wander. It is 1940’s technology. Nothing has changed. They’ve added steering dampers to help but it’s almost exactly the same as a 1940’s Jeep. They’ve ditched the bell crank, and added drag links but none of that is “ modern “ I’ve worked on enough trucks to know. I have a 310T truck ticket. I’ve worked on everything from cars to highway tractors. Some wander is par for the course in this type of steering system. Over inflated tires, a sub par factory steering damper and you can get more than
“ normal “ wander. But if you are implying that my gladiator should track as well as my M2, or my X4M you are very wrong.

Yup. Solid axle will never track grooves on the highway like an IFS. Ford went to TTB and IFS specifically for this, to ride better and smoother.

 

[j.o.y.ride]

When I switched to 35x12.5 tires that get run at much lower pressures, like 27-28, it really helped on the highway tracking, the tires seemed to be able to handle some of the contours themselves and not transmit to the suspension.

But if I leave my house and it's 50* in the morning on a proper psi and I go someplace thats 95+ (sometimes 105) I need to drop the pressure because the heat and hot roads really increase their psi dramatically. When these tires get over inflated they really turn into ice skates. Every little groove is tracked and it feels like the road is slippery.

My guess is his tires are too firm and need to come down significantly.

 

[aldo98229]

Most MT tires are a huge compromise in regular driving and wet and snow driving, surprised Jeep still puts them on, I think they are the only car company putting them on oem.

For the same reason most people buy MTs: for looks!

MTs make Willys look tough and butch.

 

[Wbrook24]

Why not have the dealership replace the stabilizer and try that out before spending money?

I have bigger tires and aftermarket wheels so not sure it would have been replaced under warranty. Either way I had planned to replace it with aftermarket one and got a great deal on it. When they did the steering gear TSB the stabilizer seemed fine and the steering gear made a big difference but the teraflex stabilizer feels like a solid step above that.

 

[DankjeeP]

Don't accept that "solid axle doesn't do as well" type of bunk these days. There's no excuse and no, wander or pull is NOT normal, solid axle or not. This is 2021, not 1940.

Agreed! If you want to go for IFS and sacrifice all the off-road benefits of a solid axle then that is one thing. But, if your solid axle is set up properly as ShadowsPapa said, than it should track "hot straight and normal".

where's the reason for any drift or wander? Caster

 

[Ohio JKU]

Willys here too...
Wandering steering. There was a recall but yours (mine too) are beyond that (fixed) I noticed in the first days I was over correcting. I was coming from a wrangler and the gladiators steering is more sensitive so I found myself needing to put less correction (instead of over correction, repeat)

also, thegladiator is quieter but cross winds will still push you around.

I highly suspect the vibration and noise are the tires;

give it a few days....

 

[Steveg137]

Have Mojave with 35 ATs.
Had wandering steering above 55, much improved by the new steering box under warranty.

 

[eyekode]

Congrats on the Jeep! I initially test drove a 2020 sport s max tow and felt it wandered quite a bit. I ended up buying a 2021 of the same trim. I notice much less wander in my vehicle then the 2020. This could either be the steering box tsb or a placebo. I know the 2021 does not track as well as my old Silverado. But it never feels dangerous. I would say if it feels dangerous you should get it checked out.
Good luck!

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Congrats on the Jeep! I initially test drove a 2020 sport s max tow and felt it wandered quite a bit. I ended up buying a 2021 of the same trim. I notice much less wander in my vehicle then the 2020. This could either be the steering box tsb or a placebo. I know the 2021 does not track as well as my old Silverado. But it never feels dangerous. I would say if it feels dangerous you should get it checked out.
Good luck!

The Silverado is a much wider, and longer, vehicle that sits with a lower center of gravity. It would indeed track differently.
If the 2020 wandered, it needed to be looked at and fixed.

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