So disappointed in this Diesel platform; wish there was a return policy.

[jeepin48]

In essence, Gladiator diesel owners who are towing in strenuous conditions need to lockout the higher gears and slow down.

Does lugging these engines generate more heat than downshifting (generally speaking)?

For example 8th gear at 70mph (towing) is 1900 rpm at maybe 1/2ish throttle. Should I downshift before I get to any grades and shoot for say 2500rpm instead? What is the highest rpm you would recommend sustaining (3-5 minutes) on these engines. I do slow down going up hill and try to keep the throttle close to same as I do on flats.

I ask about this because I find when I run the Tazer with the corrected Rubicon 33" tire size it seems to run hotter. I can only presume the difference could be shift points on the slight hills I drive.

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[Gruffid]

Update:

The wire harness that goes along the frame rail and the DEF pump was across a stud. Normal vibration and driving caused it to wear through the wire. This caused the code for the injector and service DEF. It is also the cause for my de-rate.

The wiring harness is being fixed and the jeep engineer has already put together a case so other dealers can help diagnose the problem if they run in to it.

Can you post a picture of the wire and stud so we know where to check on our own vehicles?

thanks,

Jay

 

[foo.c]

Does lugging these engines generate more heat than downshifting (generally speaking)?

For example 8th gear at 70mph (towing) is 1900 rpm at maybe 1/2ish throttle. Should I downshift before I get to any grades and shoot for say 2500rpm instead? What is the highest rpm you would recommend sustaining (3-5 minutes) on these engines. I do slow down going up hill and try to keep the throttle close to same as I do on flats.

I ask about this because I find when I run the Tazer with the corrected Rubicon 33" tire size it seems to run hotter. I can only presume the difference could be shift points on the slight hills I drive.

Lugging causes high load, high boost, and therefore high heat. Any turbo engine does the same thing.

 

[biodiesel]

Does lugging these engines generate more heat than downshifting (generally speaking)?

For example 8th gear at 70mph (towing) is 1900 rpm at maybe 1/2ish throttle. Should I downshift before I get to any grades and shoot for say 2500rpm instead?

You don't want to lug the engine. If the grade is really steep, my truck will downshift to either 4th or 5th gear. It's good to lockout 7th and/or 8th gear when towing, or maybe even 6th gear if you're in the mountains. It really depends on how much you are towing and the gears you have. For reference, I just towed our travel trailer through NM, AZ, CA, NV, UT, KS, MO, IL, AR, OK, and TX (7,000+ miles of towing) and locked out 8th gear the entire time.

Let's talk about speed. The fastest I tow with my Ram EcoDiesel is 63 mph. When towing up long steep mountain passes, my top speed is typically no higher than 45 mph.

Keep in mind, I believe the max torque is 442 lb-ft @ 1,400 RPM on the Gladiator and 280 lb-ft @ 1,600 RPM on the Ram.

What is the highest rpm you would recommend sustaining (3-5 minutes) on these engines.

I've towed over lots of mountain passes and didn't see anything over 3,500 RPM. It didn't matter if I was towing in 4th or 5th gear, 3,500 RPM was the highest I saw. I pulled an oil sample and it looked good. See attached.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Does lugging these engines generate more heat than downshifting (generally speaking)?

For example 8th gear at 70mph (towing) is 1900 rpm at maybe 1/2ish throttle. Should I downshift before I get to any grades and shoot for say 2500rpm instead? What is the highest rpm you would recommend sustaining (3-5 minutes) on these engines. I do slow down going up hill and try to keep the throttle close to same as I do on flats.

I ask about this because I find when I run the Tazer with the corrected Rubicon 33" tire size it seems to run hotter. I can only presume the difference could be shift points on the slight hills I drive.

Yeah, and I'd downshift if it was me. Not towing I can tolerate RPM under 2,000 but towing I'd never let RPM drop low. Yes, they are diesel - yes, they have superior low-end torque, but IMO, there's a low end limit. I just hate lugging engines (except when I ran turtle races to see how slow I could get my tractor to go and not stall)
Too bad these things with automatics don't have a tow mode button like my last TWO trucks did. Even my 1995 F250 had a tow mode and totally changed the RPM ranges and shift patterns among other changes it made. Both it and my Chevy were different trucks when I put them in tow mode. This thing baffles me how they tout these as being "best in class towing and payload" and then let them lug along fully loaded as if empty. Mine doesn't act any different when I have a load or a trailer than it does when empty.
Granted, YES, mine is GAS, but still - really? Same RPM, same shift patters loaded or not?

 

[biodiesel]

Too bad these things with automatics don't have a tow mode button like my last TWO trucks did.

My 2015 and 2020 Ram EcoDiesels have the Tow Haul mode. I always activate it when towing.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

My 2015 and 2020 Ram EcoDiesels have the Tow Haul mode. I always activate it when towing.

Great, now I feel even worse about this JT not having tow mode LOL

 

[biodiesel]

Great, now I feel even worse about this JT not having tow mode LOL

I'm honestly surprised that Jeep didn't add the Tow Haul mode since Ram already has the programming for the EcoDiesel. Tow Haul is designed to help with towing performance and decrease engine/transmission heat.

 

[MOPAR Boy]

I'm honestly surprised that Jeep didn't add the Tow Haul mode since Ram already has the programming for the EcoDiesel. Tow Haul is designed to help with towing performance and decrease engine/transmission heat.

Seems like an easy peasy add for the ‘22 Gladiator! That, and the Xtreme Recon package, with 37x13.50R18 KM3’s, and the Mopar/JPP 4-inch factory lift, and a nice sport bar, like the JT sport bar they teased at MOAB, or as a minimum, something similar to the ilk if the factory ‘RAMBAR’ on the TRX!

 

[CreepyJeepy]

I have been working for several hours to build out some nice temp dashboards to monitor when you tow. I have them mostly dialed in I think...

Go to Amazon and purchase a VeePeak OBDCheck BLE+
Amazon Link (OBD Scanner)
And on your IOS device download this app. (Purchase the full app (PRO) It's cheap, like 8 bucks)
Car Scanner ELM OBD2 App

Then you can import the dashboards I have worked on by downloading this JSON file to your IOS device, and import it once you setup your car.
JSON File including Dashboard Config
(Settings, Dashboard, Restore Dashboard)

You will quickly be able to see Engine Derates, Fuel Pressure being cut.
Regen State (Passive / Active / None)
Turbo Temps (inlet / outlet)
Coolant / Oil Temps
Fuel Pressure (Demanded vs. Actual)
DPF Inlet Temps
EGT's
BOOST
Trans Temp

There is MINIMAL Lag in the Gagues (like sub 1 sec)
And all of this is your's for about 50 bucks or less....

I based the redline's on my testing just data collecting and driving around town.




Cheers (images are when engine is off, which is why some of the metrics seem weird.)


Also, the one thing I am noticing is higher air temps than I would expect compared to my other turbo engines. I am betting this might be a cause of the derate.. Meaning Meth might really change things.... or a better air cooler (intercooler) and Oil Cooler.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I have been working for several hours to build out some nice temp dashboards to monitor when you tow. I have them mostly dialed in I think...

Go to Amazon and purchase a VeePeak OBDCheck BLE+
Amazon Link (OBD Scanner)
And on your IOS device download this app. (Purchase the full app (PRO) It's cheap, like 8 bucks)
Car Scanner ELM OBD2 App

Then you can import the dashboards I have worked on by downloading this JSON file to your IOS device, and import it once you setup your car.
JSON File including Dashboard Config
(Settings, Dashboard, Restore Dashboard)

You will quickly be able to see Engine Derates, Fuel Pressure being cut.
Regen State (Passive / Active / None)
Turbo Temps (inlet / outlet)
Coolant / Oil Temps
Fuel Pressure (Demanded vs. Actual)
DPF Inlet Temps
EGT's
BOOST
Trans Temp

There is MINIMAL Lag in the Gagues (like sub 1 sec)
And all of this is your's for about 50 bucks or less....

I based the redline's on my testing just data collecting and driving around town.




Cheers (images are when engine is off, which is why some of the metrics seem weird.)


Also, the one thing I am noticing is higher air temps than I would expect compared to my other turbo engines. I am betting this might be a cause of the derate.. Meaning Meth might really change things.... or a better air cooler (intercooler) and Oil Cooler.

Makes me wish I had a diesel just to buy and play around with this cool app and set of data!
I'm in awe.

 

[CreepyJeepy]

Makes me wish I had a diesel just to buy and play around with this cool app and set of data!
I'm in awe.

Thanks! Hope a few others can use it to start to diagnose what triggers the derate! Many cases I have heard of derates occurring post shutdown which indicates heat soak, but the oil / trans / coolant temps do not align.

I am really starting to wonder about charge air temp (post intercooler temp), as if that is too high issues can occur.. If that's the case a meth kit might be able to change that dramatically.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Just to make sure I'm on the same page -
"post shutdown:" and "heat soak" - referring to driver shutting engine down normally - and the heat that's in the block and heads, not yet otherwise removed from engine by cooling system, migrates (conduction, convection) to other parts, causing over-heating of those parts.
In my world, in a gas engine - referring to older vehicles - it's a cause of coolant overflow after shut down, fuel boiling in the lines adjacent to the engine, and the starter failing to crank the engine to restart.

It also causes intake air to be more hot than normal (so after your first track run, you go back to the staging area, open your hood and cool things off - or lose a tenth or two in your next run due to hot intake)

When dealer shops have hard, cold (or even hot!) data - maybe not always, but my dealership seems to appreciate it. When I went in with wiring diagrams and the brake controller issue, all well-researched, and when I took my wife's Jeep in for misfire - I had paper reports to show them, live data gathered at the time of the misfires. They didn't waste a lot of time messing around, I had already pointed in the right general direction.
I'm hoping what you've done is that taken times 100. IMO - people should be looking hard at doing, using this.

 

[CreepyJeepy]

Just to make sure I'm on the same page -
"post shutdown:" and "heat soak" - referring to driver shutting engine down normally - and the heat that's in the block and heads, not yet otherwise removed from engine by cooling system, migrates (conduction, convection) to other parts, causing over-heating of those parts.
In my world, in a gas engine - referring to older vehicles - it's a cause of coolant overflow after shut down, fuel boiling in the lines adjacent to the engine, and the starter failing to crank the engine to restart.

It also causes intake air to be more hot than normal (so after your first track run, you go back to the staging area, open your hood and cool things off - or lose a tenth or two in your next run due to hot intake)

When dealer shops have hard, cold (or even hot!) data - maybe not always, but my dealership seems to appreciate it. When I went in with wiring diagrams and the brake controller issue, all well-researched, and when I took my wife's Jeep in for misfire - I had paper reports to show them, live data gathered at the time of the misfires. They didn't waste a lot of time messing around, I had already pointed in the right general direction.
I'm hoping what you've done is that taken times 100. IMO - people should be looking hard at doing, using this.

Yeah I'm starting to question if the air cooler (intercooler) is heat soaking for some folks, on hot days when auto start/stop is enabled. and if the intercooler efficiency could be improved.

 

[houseofdiesel]

Yeah, and I'd downshift if it was me. Not towing I can tolerate RPM under 2,000 but towing I'd never let RPM drop low. Yes, they are diesel - yes, they have superior low-end torque, but IMO, there's a low end limit. I just hate lugging engines (except when I ran turtle races to see how slow I could get my tractor to go and not stall)
Too bad these things with automatics don't have a tow mode button like my last TWO trucks did. Even my 1995 F250 had a tow mode and totally changed the RPM ranges and shift patterns among other changes it made. Both it and my Chevy were different trucks when I put them in tow mode. This thing baffles me how they tout these as being "best in class towing and payload" and then let them lug along fully loaded as if empty. Mine doesn't act any different when I have a load or a trailer than it does when empty.
Granted, YES, mine is GAS, but still - really? Same RPM, same shift patters loaded or not?

2250 is usually the sweet spot. Looking at the dyno sheet for the EcoDiesel anything over 3000 RPM is just adding heat as the torque curve falls off.

But it's looking pretty obvious that the overheating issue is due to an insufficient oil cooling system. Ours wasn't bought to tow, so I'm not really worried. But if I did tow, I'd be looking for an external oil cooling system.

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