Oh Jeep... Why you so backwards?

[ShadowsPapa]

Ummm I race my jeep, and I find the configuration jeep put forward very accommodating. Just saying.

Yeah but look at your equipment and tune. Normally you'd not use 'Jeep' and 'race' in the same sentence - not stock, anyway.

I sort of got used to the pattern in CO, especially in the mountains, Pike's Peak, etc. but even then I hit it the wrong way more than once. I wanted more engine braking and did the opposite instead. That can be scary at the wrong time.
When I have lived with pre-electronics patterns for 50 years of driving, even in performance vehicles, it takes a lot to undo 50 years of experience with down being back.
I still even relate to hand throttles like in ag equipment, trenchers, back hoes (all of which I've operated), and even in aircraft (which I've not operated).

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[redrider]

Trivia Question. The movie Vanishing Point with Barry Whatzhizname, what type of shifter did that Challenger have?

 

[GCoop]

This issue has infuriated a previous generation of "tiptronic" users already. VW group went "tip forward for upshifts" and BMW went "tip backwards for upshifts." Jeep appears to have sided with team BMW.

I understand that sequential shifters work more like BMW and that an argument can be made that the BMW style is correct but I think there is no "correct" answer. Once you pick a way that feels right to you going the other way seems wrong. For the record my first manually shifted automatic was a 6sp DSG in a 2008 VW GTI. My wife's Volvo XC90 follows the same convention as VW group. So as far as I am concerned Jeep has it wrong. But I fixed that by buying the 6MT. Which truly has the CORRECT SHIFT PATTERN. Lets be honest - if its not an H pattern you are just playing video games ?

Was just getting ready to post the same information but decided to do a quick search of the thread already for tiptronic. Glad I did as you stated it more plainly and better than I could.

This is the answer. Not backwards but just a matter of perspective and knowing a little history of the auto trans "sport shifter".

 

[Rockabillyroy]

I think it has a bit to do with visual direction. Looking at the shifter, forward is up and back is down.

The old shifter was left down and right up. Similar to how we read in the US.

So maybe not based on mechanics, but on patterned behavior.

That's my thought.

 

[mazeppa]

In the early 70's, the Goobermint decreed all motorcycles must have the same shift pattern and location. Neutral between 1 and 2 with a press downward to first from neutral and a lift up for 2 and higher. So the pull of the Jeep shifter to upshift seems natural to me. Any one use a heel/toe shift lever on their motorcycle? Same thing.

Totally agree, the shift pattern seems natural to me because riding modern motorcycles.

BTW about 30 years ago I owned pre 75s: Norton 1 up 3 down R side, then later a Triumph 1 down 3 up R side, at the same time as modern motorcycles; it was really confusing when switching to the Brit bikes with the shifters and brakes on different sides.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Trivia Question. The movie Vanishing Point with Barry Whatzhizname, what type of shifter did that Challenger have?

4 speed. Was it a pistol grip?
you should see the shifter handle our priest has in his pickup. As I recall it's an African war club or something like that he cut off and used it as his shifter. I gotta get a picture of it sometime.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Totally agree, the shift pattern seems natural to me because riding modern motorcycles.

BTW about 30 years ago I owned pre 75s: Norton 1 up 3 down R side, then later a Triumph 1 down 3 up R side, at the same time as modern motorcycles; it was really confusing when switching to the Brit bikes with the shifters and brake on different sides.

You've had some cool bikes.

 

[Awhitebuff]

Just sell the Gladiator. Seriously! WTF?

 

[MrZappo]

Yeah but look at your equipment and tune. Normally you'd not use 'Jeep' and 'race' in the same sentence - not stock, anyway.

I sort of got used to the pattern in CO, especially in the mountains, Pike's Peak, etc. but even then I hit it the wrong way more than once. I wanted more engine braking and did the opposite instead. That can be scary at the wrong time.
When I have lived with pre-electronics patterns for 50 years of driving, even in performance vehicles, it takes a lot to undo 50 years of experience with down being back.
I still even relate to hand throttles like in ag equipment, trenchers, back hoes (all of which I've operated), and even in aircraft (which I've not operated).

It is definitely interesting how ingrained this stuff gets .. It positively jacked me up the first time I used it on my jeep ... My brain was just not happy about it .. I was off road and really had a hard time for an hour or so ...

Now to say something off track for this thread but responding to a comment you made earlier regarding aircraft ... And this really screwed with my head for a bit ...

A few years ago took flying lessons and learned that in aircraft, power (throttle) controls altitude and the aircraft pitch controls speed ... So, add throttle and start climbing. Lower throttle and start descending ... Speed stays the same. The phrase was (power controls altitude, pitch controls airspeed) ...

When I got back in my car, I needed a detox ...

Old habits are hard to break ...

 

[Uparms]

I agree with the guy from Texas. I like the way it is set up. My first time owning one of these trip-tronics or shift-0-matics. It seems natural to me.

I would assume but be curious as to how all the other derivatives of the ZF transmission are set up? Would it be stupid logic that they are all the same? I have been manual most all my life.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZF_8HP_transmission#Jeep

 

[Aonarch]

In racing pulling back to upshift is normal. Watch some rally racing. I thought the other way was backwards.

Yes, sequential transmissions are exactly how our Jeeps are setup.

I don't see this as an issue.

 

[Jeep-A-Kneez]

Our 4runner is forward upshift and rear to downshift, so I stay confused all the time. But hell, that doesn't take much anyway.

 

[Levi.Butler]

I agree with the Amish guy from Texas.

I can only assume you're talking about me... and I literally laughed out loud when I read that! I've been called a lot of things in my life, but Amish is not one of them! HAHAHA! I am actually surprised I've never heard that before with the whole Levi thing!!! HAHAHA!

 

[JLMOPARMAN]

 

[sharpsicle]

It's the right way. I keep it straight by thinking "you pull to increase speed, push to decrease". At least that's how I've always known sequential styled shifters to work. Jeep kept it that way but others (like Toyota) reversed it for some reason.

To those who are confused because other brands reversed it: welcome home to normal!

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