"Lifetime", Lifeguard 8-9 Speed ATF (Is this semi-synthetic oil good "forever"??) 24k kms.

[Maximus Gladius]

So, instead of letting the transmission fail with the factory fluid in it, which would have given you a warranty replacement, you went the replace fluid on your own route, after being warned about what would likely happen?

Yes, I know, “hind sight is 20/20”. I’m very involved in my stuff and want to care for it all. I had no idea when failure would happen and the service manager said the whine was normal. All I knew was it could fail after my 100k warranty and I’d have to pay for a tranny then. I had hoped that the special maintenance recommended suggestion from the lab was what I needed to do to save it.
What did I learn? If you see glycol in your transmission, it’s done. Leave it alone. Lesson learned.

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[Maximus Gladius]

There is more here learned that I’ll write about later when I have some time to post this evening.

 

[WK2JT]

Yes, I know, “hind sight is 20/20”. I’m very involved in my stuff and want to care for it all. I had no idea when failure would happen and the service manager said the whine was normal. All I knew was it could fail after my 100k warranty and I’d have to pay for a tranny then. I had hoped that the special maintenance recommended suggestion from the lab was what I needed to do to save it.
What did I learn? If you see glycol in your transmission, it’s done. Leave it alone. Lesson learned.

What was the whine? I have a very short, 1 sec, whine after reaching operating temp on the 1-2 upshift. Only time I’m able to hear a whine, almost like it’s overfilled, which may explain why it only happens when it reaches operating temp.

 

[Maximus Gladius]

What was the whine? I have a very short, 1 sec, whine after reaching operating temp on the 1-2 upshift. Only time I’m able to hear a whine, almost like it’s overfilled, which may explain why it only happens when it reaches operating temp.

Transmission pump.

 

[LostWoods]

Threads like this make me wish these testing companies would burn to the ground.

 

[Maximus Gladius]

What was the whine? I have a very short, 1 sec, whine after reaching operating temp on the 1-2 upshift. Only time I’m able to hear a whine, almost like it’s overfilled, which may explain why it only happens when it reaches operating temp.

What’s your MILAGE at and it’s always happened at operating temperature or it’s just happening now?

So the transmission pump is always running when the engine is on and vehicle Parked. Rev the engine and you’ll hear it if the pump is going. Mine started whining at highways speeds at 20k kms then by the time it died at 32k kms I could hear it all the time. You don’t have to be moving or in gear. I grabbed my stethoscope and went underneath. My son up top revving the engine and the whine was at centre tranny pan and forward to the torque converter

 

[Maximus Gladius]

Whine can be pump screen getting plugged. In my case the clutch pack was dissolving with the glycol from the factory which was slowly plugging the pump screen, followed by louder whining, gears and bearings being starved of lubrication and it all went down hill from there.

 

[dcmdon]

When you buy oil for an oil change, you don't buy Mopar oil, because there are API certifications.

If the oil you use meets the API standards that the vehicle manufacturer specifies, then you are clean.

Is this not the case with ATF??

Threads like this make me wish these testing companies would burn to the ground.

Huh??

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Transmission pump.

Whine is NOT normal. No way. Whine indicates a pump issue - a problem, not normal operation. It's often due to wear or low fluid or the inability of the pump to get fluid out of the pan (due to low fluid or plugged filter)
My JT transmission, my wife's WK2 transmissions (every one she's owned including her current 2021 model year) - all quiet. I do have a basilisk talking to me in parseltongue when I'm in reverse, but that is more of a sound through the whole vehicle, like the electric system or electronics. Transmission is quiet.

 

[LostWoods]

When you buy oil for an oil change, you don't buy Mopar oil, because there are API certifications.

If the oil you use meets the API standards that the vehicle manufacturer specifies, then you are clean.

Is this not the case with ATF??

ATF is much more complex. 25 years ago it was basically hydraulic fluid you swapped out every 15-30k so everyone and their mother made Dexron III or Mercon-V compatible fluid and it was so generic that you could literally stock just Dexron and toss in one of about 3 additives to meet Ford and Toyota specs.

Now it has very specific windows for lubrication of metal, friction with the clutches, cleaning contaminants, and being stable in a wide temperature range all while being able to do this for 100k. They are self-assessed to meet this specification from aftermarket suppliers but the OEMs are by no means certifying them and the whole concept behind a sealed unit is that you shouldn't be servicing it. If you need to it needs to be the actual recommended parts and fluids.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

What was the whine? I have a very short, 1 sec, whine after reaching operating temp on the 1-2 upshift. Only time I’m able to hear a whine, almost like it’s overfilled, which may explain why it only happens when it reaches operating temp.

Overfilled will foam the fluid. That can cause whine - but you'd notice other issues, soft shifts due to pressure problems, slippage, etc.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

ATF is much more complex. 25 years ago it was basically hydraulic fluid you swapped out every 15-30k so everyone and their mother made Dexron III or Mercon-V compatible fluid and it was so generic that you could literally stock just Dexron and toss in one of about 3 additives to meet Ford and Toyota specs.

Now it has very specific windows for lubrication of metal, friction with the clutches, cleaning contaminants, and being stable in a wide temperature range all while being able to do this for 100k. They are self-assessed to meet this specification from aftermarket suppliers but the OEMs are by no means certifying them and the whole concept behind a sealed unit is that you shouldn't be servicing it. If you need to it needs to be the actual recommended parts and fluids.

You likely recall the "Type A" vs. "Type F" days when mixing things up could really be a hassle. Ford even dropped Type F after a short time because of trouble with it. The clutch lining and band lining needed specific coefficients of friction - the friction modifiers were a lot different then. Things changed a lot in the 70s and on. Still, there were basic rules for domestic vehicles - Ford fluid for Ford transmissions and Dexron equiv for anything else - until the late 80s and beyond if I have my timing right.
Hydraulic fluid, friction modifiers, detergents, agents to keep it from burning, act as a lube for the shuttles and valves in the valve body but not let the clutches and bands slip........ to this day there are arguments over which fluid to use in the classic car transmissions especially where Borg Warner and Ford are involved.

 

[dcmdon]

ATF is much more complex. 25 years ago it was basically hydraulic fluid you swapped out every 15-30k so everyone and their mother made Dexron III or Mercon-V compatible fluid and it was so generic that you could literally stock just Dexron and toss in one of about 3 additives to meet Ford and Toyota specs.

Now it has very specific windows for lubrication of metal, friction with the clutches, cleaning contaminants, and being stable in a wide temperature range all while being able to do this for 100k. They are self-assessed to meet this specification from aftermarket suppliers but the OEMs are by no means certifying them and the whole concept behind a sealed unit is that you shouldn't be servicing it. If you need to it needs to be the actual recommended parts and fluids.

So there is no API "standard" set of certifications. Ok. That sucks.

Its funny that ZF recommends a fluid change every 80k km but FCA says its a "lifetime fill"

 

[LostWoods]

You likely recall the "Type A" vs. "Type F" days when mixing things up could really be a hassle. Ford even dropped Type F after a short time because of trouble with it. The clutch lining and band lining needed specific coefficients of friction - the friction modifiers were a lot different then. Things changed a lot in the 70s and on. Still, there were basic rules for domestic vehicles - Ford fluid for Ford transmissions and Dexron equiv for anything else - until the late 80s and beyond if I have my timing right.
Hydraulic fluid, friction modifiers, detergents, agents to keep it from burning, act as a lube for the shuttles and valves in the valve body but not let the clutches and bands slip........ to this day there are arguments over which fluid to use in the classic car transmissions especially where Borg Warner and Ford are involved.

Not old enough to do them regularly but I've definitely seen a few that required them haha. We almost had to hold a funeral when a new lube tech put the ford additive stuff in a classic T-bird one time. He was just lucky the service director was an avid golfer.

 

[Mac]

My MDX required a transmission fluid drain and fill at 60k miles, it has a ZF 9 speed. I did it myself with the Acura specific fluid, it was around $30 a quart.

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