"Lifetime", Lifeguard 8-9 Speed ATF (Is this semi-synthetic oil good "forever"??) 24k kms.

Should you change the "good for life" transmission Lifeguard 8-9 Speed ATF sooner than later??


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rharr

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Tech knew as soon as he pulled the fill plug the oil wasn’t the right colour.
Clever monkey.

As a FYI I found this to be pretty helpful on explaining stuff. Granted it's for a 8hp and not 850 but the info still applies.

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Maximus Gladius

Maximus Gladius

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Clever monkey.

As a FYI I found this to be pretty helpful on explaining stuff. Granted it's for a 8hp and not 850 but the info still applies.

This makes sense once flush is done OR you got approval to mix old with new as would happen just dropping pan. AMSOIL can not be mixed with Mopar 8/9 ATF
 

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I like the part that help breakdown what "certified" oils mean and how to compare certified oils to none certified. Basically comparing ingredient quantities using the OEM as the baseline and picking a oil that has the same ingredient quantities or better.

The burden of proof should be on mopar to explain why their product with X,Y and Z ingredients is different then product X with the same ingredients and quantities. A Spectroscopy Analysis is able to break down what everything is made of and hard to contest if the results are the same.

Also they would need to do a autopsy of the trans to find out what the failure is, with certain failures due to oil issues and others to component failure.

Unfortunately none of that happens without legal actions and a court of law reviewing the facts and making a decision.

Basically sounds like you will need to sue the dealership (consumer lawyer) and make them prove you are responsible for the failure.
 
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DAVECS1

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So, not to freak anyone out, but I am going to play devil's advocate for a bit here. Does not mean I believe the OP is in the wrong by any stretch.

This is a tuff thing from an OEM perspective. They probably uave done all their testing qith one oil, and trust me the guys testing are not tribologist, cause I am one of those guys for another company. So all the temp test, transition tests, life load tests, tow bar test, etc where done on this one oil.

They know that one oil works, period. The tuff part is: now we have another oil, right, wrong or indifferent, and it has failed.

If there was no previous oil analysis forget it, this is all said and done, but the oil analysis showed alarming amounts of material in the trans. The consumer chose what is advertised as a superior product and accoeding to the materials listed it should be. Problem being we do not understand the composition of the clutch material in the trans and its possible reactions to different lubrications.

So this really comes down to a rock and a hard place. Is the OEM required to tear down the transmission and find root cause failure? Is the the first oil analysis evidence the transmission was already failing?

I have had 3 trips to the dealer. One for a window leak, one for a seatbelt, and one for the radio. My truck is supercharged, lifted, and I have added a rear limited slip differential. If I have any drivetrain related failures, I am not under any impressions they will entertain warranty even if I can prove the defective part sees no additional stress from what I have done.

Heck I was leary to take it in for the brake controller ABS update.

I am not a fan of these new policies where they are wholesale cancelling warranties. At these price points there should be more mitigation and arbitration, for sure.

At the end of they day, I have made the decision a number of times on a new vehicle, that even though I know the failure is a def , or workmanship related, (electrical/mechanical engineering degree/Masters in control systems technology, 25 years work experience, life long gear head). It is not worth the energy and frustration to prove my point and lament about my broke stuff, and I buy the new parts and install them myself and get back to having fun. Sometimes it can be expensive, but also an opportunity for more coolness 😁
 

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Looks like you can pick one up off eBay pretty reasonably if things don’t work out with the dealer.
 
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So, not to freak anyone out, but I am going to play devil's advocate for a bit here. Does not mean I believe the OP is in the wrong by any stretch.

This is a tuff thing from an OEM perspective. They probably uave done all their testing qith one oil, and trust me the guys testing are not tribologist, cause I am one of those guys for another company. So all the temp test, transition tests, life load tests, tow bar test, etc where done on this one oil.

They know that one oil works, period. The tuff part is: now we have another oil, right, wrong or indifferent, and it has failed.

If there was no previous oil analysis forget it, this is all said and done, but the oil analysis showed alarming amounts of material in the trans. The consumer chose what is advertised as a superior product and accoeding to the materials listed it should be. Problem being we do not understand the composition of the clutch material in the trans and its possible reactions to different lubrications.

So this really comes down to a rock and a hard place. Is the OEM required to tear down the transmission and find root cause failure? Is the the first oil analysis evidence the transmission was already failing?

I have had 3 trips to the dealer. One for a window leak, one for a seatbelt, and one for the radio. My truck is supercharged, lifted, and I have added a rear limited slip differential. If I have any drivetrain related failures, I am not under any impressions they will entertain warranty even if I can prove the defective part sees no additional stress from what I have done.

Heck I was leary to take it in for the brake controller ABS update.

I am not a fan of these new policies where they are wholesale cancelling warranties. At these price points there should be more mitigation and arbitration, for sure.

At the end of they day, I have made the decision a number of times on a new vehicle, that even though I know the failure is a def , or workmanship related, (electrical/mechanical engineering degree/Masters in control systems technology, 25 years work experience, life long gear head). It is not worth the energy and frustration to prove my point and lament about my broke stuff, and I buy the new parts and install them myself and get back to having fun. Sometimes it can be expensive, but also an opportunity for more coolness 😁
So to answer about the tranny having one oil and settling in on that oil, If one is to flush as I did, you MUST reflash the transmission. It has to relearn with the new oil, same brand or different. That was one question service asked me if the transmission shop reflashed it when then flushed it. They were hoping I was going to say “what’s that”? . 😉

Chrysler looked for the compliance code for the transmission on the back of the Amsoil bottle and didn’t see it. They also didn’t ask AMSOIL for the compliance code nor did they look at AMSOIL’s Data Sheet confirming compliance code.
 

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SO basically, you play their game, follow their rules, use their products and you are able to lean on the warranty. If you deviate from that path during the warranty period you risk total lose.

These things being so new and so untested, I have made the decision to walk the line, until all the bugs are worked out or my warranty is over before I start trying other things. But who knows... they may find a drop of dried muddy water on some engine part and still claim abuse and void the warranty..... These are the games we signed up for when buying new and they are stacked in their favor.

it's unfortunate you have to play these games.
 

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To be clear I think you did everything
So to answer about the tranny having one oil and settling in on that oil, If one is to flush as I did, you MUST reflash the transmission. It has to relearn with the new oil, same brand or different. That was one question service asked me if the transmission shop reflashed it when then flushed it. They were hoping I was going to say “what’s that”? . 😉

Chrysler looked for the compliance code for the transmission on the back of the Amsoil bottle and didn’t see it. They also didn’t ask AMSOIL for the compliance code nor did they look at AMSOIL’s Data Sheet confirming compliance code.
[/QUOTE
So to answer about the tranny having one oil and settling in on that oil, If one is to flush as I did, you MUST reflash the transmission. It has to relearn with the new oil, same brand or different. That was one question service asked me if the transmission shop reflashed it when then flushed it. They were hoping I was going to say “what’s that”? . 😉

Chrysler looked for the compliance code for the transmission on the back of the Amsoil bottle and didn’t see it. They also didn’t ask AMSOIL for the compliance code nor did they look at AMSOIL’s Data Sheet confirming compliance code.
To be clear I think you did everything right, just was trying to give an OEM perspective as I don't necessarily think they purposely as a whole try to be malicious, but engineers are getting squeezed more and more as corps sacrifice academia in the name of higher profits
 

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So to answer about the tranny having one oil and settling in on that oil, If one is to flush as I did, you MUST reflash the transmission. It has to relearn with the new oil, same brand or different. That was one question service asked me if the transmission shop reflashed it when then flushed it. They were hoping I was going to say “what’s that”? . 😉

Chrysler looked for the compliance code for the transmission on the back of the Amsoil bottle and didn’t see it. They also didn’t ask AMSOIL for the compliance code nor did they look at AMSOIL’s Data Sheet confirming compliance code.
Is it a reflash or a reset for the transmission to go through the learning process again. How is this achieved?
 
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Maximus Gladius

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Is it a reflash or a reset for the transmission to go through the learning process again. How is this achieved?
I’m not sure of the correct name for it. Transmission shop named it a reflash and explained it’s rebooting it to learn all over again. I didn’t ask how it’s done and can’t even guess how. They did tell me that it takes 10k kms for the relearn to complete.
 

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Clutch touch up fill calibration. Basically it.is a routine that activates the clutch solenoid and the monitors the clutch fill process by looking for when the converter pulls down in each gear.
 

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Problem being we do not understand the composition of the clutch material in the trans and its possible reactions to different lubrications.
I agree and am not in any way really implying anything on this case......but.... this is the sort of thing that drives me nuts when someone asks "what transmission fluid should I use in my AMC xxxxx"
AMC used two different automatic transmissions - up through 1971 is was Borg Warner, 72 and later, it was TorqueFlite.
Guess what fluid both took - - Type A (that's what it was back then)
So I tell them regardless of the year, you need to go forward in time and find the modern equivalent of Type A (Dexron for example)
But you have people arguing that "you can use Type F and it will shift better!"
Or - "the early transmissions were the same as Ford, use Type F".
BS on both counts.
B/W was NOT Ford. They parted ways in the late 50s and Ford went their own way with clutch and band materials. Borg Warner stuck with their clutch and band materials and kept using A
Some of us have seen things ripped apart (in a manner of speaking) as the F was problematic for some materials. Even Ford had troubles and stopped using F after a few years. But still - people insist fluid types don't really matter, use what makes it shift best.
And because it's all over the internet - these fools keep repeating it, it's become fact. Something repeated enough times makes it true. (regardless of what those of us who worked on these things for years say)

Anyway, there are things you should never mix - certain brake fluid types, certain transmission fluids, and other fun stuff. (engine oil really isn't a problem)
 

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Clutch touch up fill calibration. Basically it.is a routine that activates the clutch solenoid and the monitors the clutch fill process by looking for when the converter pulls down in each gear.
Thanks… do you know how this is activated? I just done pan drops and refills previously. I’ve not done this calibration before.
 

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I have not had the chance to execute one myself. I have seen the service tool option for it, in the starscan options list.
 
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Second oil analysis report to compare with first.

Compare my report with a Blackstone oil analysis of another ZF tranny done at 50k miles (80k kms). This was not a full flush and oil sample gathered from a pan drop. In the video, go to 15:07 and pause it write down the numbers for copper, iron, sodium and glycol in there and compare with mine.
 

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