2.5" lift question for a 600lb constant load Alu-Cab Gen 3 RTT'd JTR

[Alabama Mud Machine]

I wasn't questioning his method why...I understand that.

I was asking in general, how high can you go (un-sprung - unloaded) before you'll need a rear track bar drop bracket or adjustable rear track bar.

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[darkhorse13]

I wasn't questioning his method why...I understand that.

I was asking in general, how high can you go (un-sprung - unloaded) before you'll need a rear track bar drop bracket or adjustable rear track bar.

No worries, just didn't know the ask Yeah, I don't know the general guideline... sorry.

 

[LostWoods]

So I have spoken to (2) JTR owners with similar constant load situations. BOTH of them run the Mopar 2" lift and BOTH of them threw the Fox shocks in the trash. Both said the shock valving was wrong for the weight.

User #1: IG @maxtraxhq = AT OVERLAND SUMMIT (~340lb) and drawer system (unknown)
His comments: "Mopar lift Fox shocks have crap valving for the weight, I put King adjustables on all 4 corners and haven't looked back. I also run a Hellwig rear sway bar and it's essential"

User #2: IG @gobi_recon = spoke with him when he had a Rebel Off-Road full rack and RTT (~400lb)
His comments: "Found the rear shocks (Fox 2.5s) to completely under-valved and replaced with Falcon adjustables. I also like a little rake and I added a 3/4" spacer in the rear"

Again, I am trying to find the "correct" springs / shocks for the rear given both of these user comments and I don't believe the Mopar kit is what I'm looking for.

John

You're asking an impossible question here. There is no way for anyone to tell you the "correct" setup off what's been posted here and the opinion of two other people doesn't automatically mean it's wrong for you. I mean the target market of the Mopar kit definitely means it's not for you but the only person who knows whether a kit is right for you or not is you.

The only question that matters is how much are you willing to pay for a suspension? If the answer is 5-6k or more, call Filthy Motorsports who isn't even an hour away from you and have them set you up right. If that number is much lower then you're going to have to buy an off-the-shelf kit and deal with compromises.

Buying an off-the-shelf lift with heavier spring rates then having Filthy tune a set of King 2.5s for you is probably going to be your best choice outside going full coilover conversion.

 

[darkhorse13]

Hey everyone,
So I pulled the trigger on my spring / shock combo and ended up going with the Clayton Off-Road 2.5" Overland Springs and Falcon SP2 3.3's at all four corners. I feel like Clayton is currently offering the best triple rate spring rates for my needs and the Falcon's will provide good incremental adjustment to get it all dialed in.

I will report back in about a month (waiting on some other parts) with pics and ride quality reports.

John

 

[Moriarty]

Hey John, looking forward to your final set-up/review.
No pressure, just letting you know that I'm interested how it works out. We are close to the same weight. Thx in advance.

 

[Veloruche]

Hey John, looking forward to your final set-up/review.
No pressure, just letting you know that I'm interested how it works out. We are close to the same weight. Thx in advance.

Likewise, I’m getting ready to add the AluCab Canopy Camper and have the 2” Mopar lift. I’m thinking of adding the Clayton 2.5” springs and keeping the Fox shocks.

 

[darkhorse13]

Hey John, looking forward to your final set-up/review.
No pressure, just letting you know that I'm interested how it works out. We are close to the same weight. Thx in advance.

Hey there,
I am super anxious to get it all installed as everything is sitting in my basement. Unfortunately I am still waiting on the AEV Borah JT Satin Black wheels... that's all that is holding me up at this point. Est shipping is now Sept 21

I will definitely report back here!

 

[Moriarty]

Hey there,
I am super anxious to get it all installed as everything is sitting in my basement. Unfortunately I am still waiting on the AEV Borah JT Satin Black wheels... that's all that is holding me up at this point. Est shipping is now Sept 21

I will definitely report back here!

No worries! We are running the same wheels with Nitto muds, 37".

Werth the wait for the rims.

 

[darkhorse13]

No worries! We are running the same wheels with Nitto muds, 37".

Werth the wait for the rims.

Do you have pics? Feel free to DM me if you don't want to hijack this thread.

 

[DiscoDino]

I'm not sure on weight but I can tell you what I have:

1. iKamper Skycamp 1.0 hardshell 4 person tent with solar panel stuck to it & Exped mattresses
2. custom made 1.5" DOM tube tent rack off the bed with some 3mm plate
3. 65L plastic water tank (usually full) with a 6L water boiler and pump/stuff
4. ARB Classic 2 60L fridge on slides
5. Pelican 1350 FAK
6. 2lb fire extinguisher
7. 2 x traction boards (poly)
8. Rear custom bumper with integrated winch and 2" receiver
9. Under cab cradle (6mm) with 4gal steel air tank and Aux battery (AGM)
10. Extreme Outback air pump behind passenger tire
11. Toilet awning on driver side from the bed rack
12. super lightweight aluminum/plastic shovel

Throughout the vehicle there is also full tools under the rear seats, OEM Rubicon bumper (stubbied) with M8274-70...that's about it

Update from my end...the truck was sitting low in the back and it was noticeable when driving...so I installed the 3/4" poly pucks from Daystar and now sitting perfectly well...

I feel the EVO springs are not meant for this constant load...eventually may consider going with a rear 3 or 3.5" spring from another manufacturer...but for now working well.

 

[darkhorse13]

Hey everyone, so I finally have an update... been waiting on AEV Borah wheels to finish this lift project.

I completed the Clayton lift with Falcon SP2 3.3 shocks and I am pleased with the results. As you know I am carrying roughly a 600lb constant load in the JTR at all times. As a reminder, I wanted a 2.5" lift that could support the weight without the use of spacers to supplement the rear springs. So I ended up with Clayton 2.5" front coils and Clayton 3.5" rear coils to support the constant load.

As it turns out, I actually netted MORE TOTAL lift than expected from Clayton Off Road's advertised lift height.

Clayton's 2.5" front coil = I gained slightly over 3.0" of total lift (no bumper/winch)
Clayton's 3.5" rear coil = netted 3.0" of total lift with 600lb constant load

Overall, I am sitting at more of a true 3.0" lift at each corner (despite looking higher in the front due to the Rubicon's high flare fenders). I am very pleased with the stance and actually hope the front comes down slightly with the new bumper/winch. The rear lower control arms are no longer "inverted" like with the OEM stock springs.

The Clayton springs are very supportive and seem to be tuned with more of a firm street ride and excellent off road ride, soaking up rocks and whoops without constantly relying on the bump stops. They seem to love the "bigger" hits and promote a little bit more speed in the wash boards.

Onto the Falcon SP2 3.3's.... which will draw the biggest debate I'm sure. I'll just get it out in the open, I like these shocks and do not feel that they are harsh. My shaft setting is twisted to "soft" and I run them on the #1 dial setting (soft) on the road. Yes, they are set on ALL SOFT for normal daily driving even with all my weight. Small bump compliance is good and cornering support is great. We drove all the CO mountain passes at the prescribed speed limits with little body roll and zero float out of the rear. Absolutely no more rear end bounce or cross wind sway like from the OEM suspension. My personal shock setting preference on-road is SOFT / SOFT to maintain a firmer than stock feel and planted ride in the corners. My guess it that with Clayton's higher spring rate and a firmer shock like Falcon that most people will go with ALL SOFT.

Off-road though is a different story with the Falcon's. I prefer a setting of 2.1 front and 2.4 rear when crawling thru the rocks and hitting off-camber sections (Engineer Pass in Ouray for example). The shocks felt better when stiffened up off road. The JT was less prone to the "slinky effect" when crawling over rocks where one side compresses and the other extends as the vehicle comes off rocks. After 5 hours of both Engineer Pass and Cinnamon Pass the shocks never felt like they were fading or giving up.

If you're still waiting on a negative comment about the Falcon's then here it is... I don't see a real world scenario where the PERFORMANCE shock shaft setting is needed... for me at least. I'm running Nitto RG's 37x12.5 @30psi and the SOFT shock shaft setting seems to provide all the support I need. Maybe these shocks are designed to pick up the slack of a soft spring? Maybe other gals/guys drive harder that I ever will to utilize the PERFORMANCE shaft setting?

For the overland crowd or people carrying more payload than most I hope this thread helps you out.

John

 

[FR33DOM]

Hey everyone, so I finally have an update... been waiting on AEV Borah wheels to finish this lift project.

I completed the Clayton lift with Falcon SP2 3.3 shocks and I am pleased with the results. As you know I am carrying roughly a 600lb constant load in the JTR at all times. As a reminder, I wanted a 2.5" lift that could support the weight without the use of spacers to supplement the rear springs. So I ended up with Clayton 2.5" front coils and Clayton 3.5" rear coils to support the constant load.

As it turns out, I actually netted MORE TOTAL lift than expected from Clayton Off Road's advertised lift height.

Clayton's 2.5" front coil = I gained slightly over 3.0" of total lift (no bumper/winch)
Clayton's 3.5" rear coil = netted 3.0" of total lift with 600lb constant load

Overall, I am sitting at more of a true 3.0" lift at each corner (despite looking higher in the front due to the Rubicon's high flare fenders). I am very pleased with the stance and actually hope the front comes down slightly with the new bumper/winch. The rear lower control arms are no longer "inverted" like with the OEM stock springs.

The Clayton springs are very supportive and seem to be tuned with more of a firm street ride and excellent off road ride, soaking up rocks and whoops without constantly relying on the bump stops. They seem to love the "bigger" hits and promote a little bit more speed in the wash boards.

Onto the Falcon SP2 3.3's.... which will draw the biggest debate I'm sure. I'll just get it out in the open, I like these shocks and do not feel that they are harsh. My shaft setting is twisted to "soft" and I run them on the #1 dial setting (soft) on the road. Yes, they are set on ALL SOFT for normal daily driving even with all my weight. Small bump compliance is good and cornering support is great. We drove all the CO mountain passes at the prescribed speed limits with little body roll and zero float out of the rear. Absolutely no more rear end bounce or cross wind sway like from the OEM suspension. My personal shock setting preference on-road is SOFT / SOFT to maintain a firmer than stock feel and planted ride in the corners. My guess it that with Clayton's higher spring rate and a firmer shock like Falcon that most people will go with ALL SOFT.

Off-road though is a different story with the Falcon's. I prefer a setting of 2.1 front and 2.4 rear when crawling thru the rocks and hitting off-camber sections (Engineer Pass in Ouray for example). The shocks felt better when stiffened up off road. The JT was less prone to the "slinky effect" when crawling over rocks where one side compresses and the other extends as the vehicle comes off rocks. After 5 hours of both Engineer Pass and Cinnamon Pass the shocks never felt like they were fading or giving up.

If you're still waiting on a negative comment about the Falcon's then here it is... I don't see a real world scenario where the PERFORMANCE shock shaft setting is needed... for me at least. I'm running Nitto RG's 37x12.5 @30psi and the SOFT shock shaft setting seems to provide all the support I need. Maybe these shocks are designed to pick up the slack of a soft spring? Maybe other gals/guys drive harder that I ever will to utilize the PERFORMANCE shaft setting?

For the overland crowd or people carrying more payload than most I hope this thread helps you out.

John

So I've got an RLD cap on mine and plan on towing an Opus OP4 next summer on and Offroad. I am putting on a 2.5" Clayton lift as well and just today was wondering how much rake (if any) will be left with the 160# cap plus 200# tongue weight plus ~200# of gear. I already have the 0.75 pucks on the stock suspension and it is very near level (with 1.5" spacer and winch up front).

Now you've got me wondering if I need to keep the pucks in the rear or get the 3.5" springs from Clayton too.

With the 3.5" springs, did you get the longer falcon shocks or stick with the 2-3" version in the rear? Also, did you have to extend your rear brake lines or any other mods to get the larger springs accommodated?

Below is how mine sits nearly empty (I don't think I have my recover kit in the back here).

 

[darkhorse13]

So I've got an RLD cap on mine and plan on towing an Opus OP4 next summer on and Offroad. I am putting on a 2.5" Clayton lift as well and just today was wondering how much rake (if any) will be left with the 160# cap plus 200# tongue weight plus ~200# of gear. I already have the 0.75 pucks on the stock suspension and it is very near level (with 1.5" spacer and winch up front).

Now you've got me wondering if I need to keep the pucks in the rear or get the 3.5" springs from Clayton too.

With the 3.5" springs, did you get the longer falcon shocks or stick with the 2-3" version in the rear? Also, did you have to extend your rear brake lines or any other mods to get the larger springs accommodated?

Great looking truck!

If you want to make it simple, I netted a 3.0" total lift at all corners. The front Clayton 2.5" springs actually gave me a little over 3" of lift and the rear Clayton 3.5" springs sagged about 0.5" with the weight to give me a hair under 3" too.

I wanted to also keep the Daystar rear 3/4" spacers to give me some rake but I think I'd be too tall for the prescribed shock length (so I left them out).... I have the Falcon 2-3" lift shocks as I'm right at 3" of total lift. Sounding ungrateful, I really wish I would have just got the actual 2.5" of lift in the front as advertised. If that was the case then I'd have the 0.5" rake I'm looking for. Oh well, still looks good and maybe they'll settle?

Yes, I absolutely have extended rear brake lines! I'd recommend them to anyone with more than a 2" rear lift. They will allow you to get the full droop out of the rear end. Front extended lines were not needed. I also went with a Rock Jock carrier bearing drop kit. Don't know if it's necessary but AEV includes one in their 2" spacer lift kit so I followed their lead.

John

 

[FR33DOM]

Great looking truck!

If you want to make it simple, I netted a 3.0" total lift at all corners. The front Clayton 2.5" springs actually gave me a little over 3" of lift and the rear Clayton 3.5" springs sagged about 0.5" with the weight to give me a hair under 3" too.

I wanted to also keep the Daystar rear 3/4" spacers to give me some rake but I think I'd be too tall for the prescribed shock length (so I left them out).... I have the Falcon 2-3" lift shocks as I'm right at 3" of total lift. Sounding ungrateful, I really wish I would have just got the actual 2.5" of lift in the front as advertised. If that was the case then I'd have the 0.5" rake I'm looking for. Oh well, still looks good and maybe they'll settle?

Yes, I absolutely have extended rear brake lines! I'd recommend them to anyone with more than a 2" rear lift. They will allow you to get the full droop out of the rear end. Front extended lines were not needed. I also went with a Rock Jock carrier bearing drop kit. Don't know if it's necessary but AEV includes one in their 2" spacer lift kit so I followed their lead.

John

I think that is consistent with most lifts - you get more than advertised. I thought that Clayton was one of the most consistent or "true" lifts in terms of gain in reading other posts. I also thought for a moment that you got more because it is non-rubicon but your signature shows JTR so guessing you took the decal off your hood?

I think maybe what is best for me is to keep the 3/4" on the 2.5" and should be good to go. I'll go back and add the brake line spacers if I need it assuming they can figure that out at the shop when they install. I'm a little ignorant on this part...

 

[darkhorse13]

I think that is consistent with most lifts - you get more than advertised. I thought that Clayton was one of the most consistent or "true" lifts in terms of gain in reading other posts. I also thought for a moment that you got more because it is non-rubicon but your signature shows JTR so guessing you took the decal off your hood?

I think maybe what is best for me is to keep the 3/4" on the 2.5" and should be good to go. I'll go back and add the brake line spacers if I need it assuming they can figure that out at the shop when they install. I'm a little ignorant on this part...

Yes I have taken the decals off the hood... it's a Rubicon. I'd recommend the 3/4" spacers with the 2.5" rear springs if you want a rake. The JT's do not have an option for brake line extensions so I'd recommend getting new lines from Crown Performance. Might as well have the shop do it all at once and be done.

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