2.5" lift question for a 600lb constant load Alu-Cab Gen 3 RTT'd JTR

[darkhorse13]

Hello,
New to the group here and we've owned our JTR now for 2 weeks I just installed my Rebel Off-Road full rack and AluCab Gen 3 tent and Awning (came off our now-sold FJ Cruiser). I estimate that I just added about 500lb-600lb of constant load. We just took our first 2hr highway and camping trip this weekend and I will say that the stock JTR suspension was a big let down. I didn't expect it to be amazing but I'm now prioritizing a lift to the top of the list.

I wish AEV had their true Dual Sport 2.5" kit ready now because going with the spacer kit will not yield any different results. I believe I'm narrowed down to the Evo 2.5" Enforcer Stage 1 kit as I've heard great ride reports even with the extra weight in the back. I already have Synergy Mfg adj lower arms, sector brace, front track bar and HD tie rod ends on order.

i'm just curious though what length shocks (extended / compressed) I should be pairing with this kit to avoid any front drive shaft mods? I do want adjustable shocks front and rear.

It appears that the King fronts come in a 0-2.0" and 3-5" (not sure where the 2.5" falls)

Also the King rears sort of fall into that in between space...

The reason I am looking outside of the EVO Spec Kings is because the EVO version are not adjustable. Maybe I should just ask them about adding it?

Anyway, I'd love to hear anyone's input on their JTR with a constant 500-600lb load out back

Thanks,
John

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[Alabama Mud Machine]

Maybe a simple swap would be adding Max Tow rear springs, and 1.5" rear spring spacer???

Or you could go with the full EVO 2.5" kit. That would be my top recommendation.

 

[darkhorse13]

Maybe a simple swap would be adding Max Tow rear springs, and 1.5" rear spring spacer???

Or you could go with the full EVO 2.5" kit. That would be my top recommendation.

I thought about that, but I'm a "buy once cry once" person and I want to do things properly the first time The EVO 2.5" Stage 1 with my current upgrades should hold me over for a few years until new tires are needed again..haha. I am just confused about the correct length shocks. I hope to call EVO tomorrow but figured I'd ask the group first.

Thanks!

 

[Moriarty]

I have been following @DiscoDino build of Project: Rhino. He has a Rubicon (UAE spec) with RTT, EVO 2.5" lift, frig, Fox 3.0 shocks and much more. I am looking for the same load carrying capacity as you, note taking as I go.

 

[DiscoDino]

Interesting threat - thanks @Moriarty for mentioning me...

My rear is a wee bit sagged due to the weight for my liking...so I'm looking at potentially swapping the rear 2.5" Ivo springs (which are SUPER comfy) with something either more HD same height or something 3,0 (Metalcloak or RockKrawler)...

In terms of shocks I went from the Rubicon 2.0 Fox OEM shocks to the 3.0 Fox IBPs suited for the JLU with some machine work for the rear upper bushings and they have been PHENOMENAL...best upgrade...

If we can get some lb/in ratings per spring manufacturer we'd be able to manage this better...

 

[Moriarty]

Interesting threat - thanks @Moriarty for mentioning me...

My rear is a wee bit sagged due to the weight for my liking...so I'm looking at potentially swapping the rear 2.5" Ivo springs (which are SUPER comfy) with something either more HD same height or something 3,0 (Metalcloak or RockKrawler)...

In terms of shocks I went from the Rubicon 2.0 Fox OEM shocks to the 3.0 Fox IBPs suited for the JLU with some machine work for the rear upper bushings and they have been PHENOMENAL...best upgrade...

If we can get some lb/in ratings per spring manufacturer we'd be able to manage this better...

Thanks for commenting on this thread, hope you don't mind me referencing Pro. RHINO. (You have inspired me to rebuild may M8274 and mount it on our JTR).

 

[DiscoDino]

Thanks for commenting on this thread, hope you don't mind me referencing Pro. RHINO. (You have inspired me to rebuild may M8274 and mount it on our JTR).

Nothing like the 8274 in whatever configuration! Happy RHINO inspired you...will post new updates soon...

Now back to the load managing needs

 

[darkhorse13]

Interesting threat - thanks @Moriarty for mentioning me...

My rear is a wee bit sagged due to the weight for my liking...so I'm looking at potentially swapping the rear 2.5" Ivo springs (which are SUPER comfy) with something either more HD same height or something 3,0 (Metalcloak or RockKrawler)...

In terms of shocks I went from the Rubicon 2.0 Fox OEM shocks to the 3.0 Fox IBPs suited for the JLU with some machine work for the rear upper bushings and they have been PHENOMENAL...best upgrade...

If we can get some lb/in ratings per spring manufacturer we'd be able to manage this better...

@DiscoDino thanks for chiming in. how much constant load are you running by chance? thanks!

I believe that Triple Rate Springs in the rear are the current route I'm going. These are the vendors I've found with TR Springs

Triple Rate Springs:
1) ICON

2) Rock Krawler 3.0 Quad Rate Rear Spring (part# RK07328 ) = 21.5" free length (just spoke to them today over the phone)
(Zone 1) Top = undefined > keeper weight in bucket (17.25 inches - 21.5 inches)
(Zone 2) = 185lb (ride height > no weight; 11.25 inches - 17.25 inches)
(Zone 3) = 250lb (last 1.0 inch - 11.25 inches)
(Zone 4) Bottom = 325lb (last 1.0 inch of travel)

3) Clayton = published rates on website

4) AEV (one day )

Dual Rate Springs:
1) Metalcloak = will not release (as of 8/25/20 email)

2) Synergy Mfg = 165lb initial / 250lb ride rate

 

[DiscoDino]

I'm not sure on weight but I can tell you what I have:

1. iKamper Skycamp 1.0 hardshell 4 person tent with solar panel stuck to it & Exped mattresses
2. custom made 1.5" DOM tube tent rack off the bed with some 3mm plate
3. 65L plastic water tank (usually full) with a 6L water boiler and pump/stuff
4. ARB Classic 2 60L fridge on slides
5. Pelican 1350 FAK
6. 2lb fire extinguisher
7. 2 x traction boards (poly)
8. Rear custom bumper with integrated winch and 2" receiver
9. Under cab cradle (6mm) with 4gal steel air tank and Aux battery (AGM)
10. Extreme Outback air pump behind passenger tire
11. Toilet awning on driver side from the bed rack
12. super lightweight aluminum/plastic shovel

Throughout the vehicle there is also full tools under the rear seats, OEM Rubicon bumper (stubbied) with M8274-70...that's about it

 

[darkhorse13]

I'm not sure on weight but I can tell you what I have:

1. iKamper Skycamp 1.0 hardshell 4 person tent with solar panel stuck to it & Exped mattresses
2. custom made 1.5" DOM tube tent rack off the bed with some 3mm plate
3. 65L plastic water tank (usually full) with a 6L water boiler and pump/stuff
4. ARB Classic 2 60L fridge on slides
5. Pelican 1350 FAK
6. 2lb fire extinguisher
7. 2 x traction boards (poly)
8. Rear custom bumper with integrated winch and 2" receiver
9. Under cab cradle (6mm) with 4gal steel air tank and Aux battery (AGM)
10. Extreme Outback air pump behind passenger tire
11. Toilet awning on driver side from the bed rack
12. super lightweight aluminum/plastic shovel

Throughout the vehicle there is also full tools under the rear seats, OEM Rubicon bumper (stubbied) with M8274-70...that's about it

Thanks @DiscoDino for the list. It sounds like you are at the same weight if not more than myself. I'm surprise that the EVO 2.5's don't sit lower with that load. I think I've narrowed my search down to Clayton Overland 3.5" triple rate springs or Rock Crawler 3.0" quad rate rear springs.

Here's my current, constant load setup with est total weight = 605lb
1) Alu Cab Gen 3 Tent = 180lb
2) Alu Cab Shadow Awning = 70lb
3) Rebel Off-Road Full Height Rack w/ (8) side plates/propane/RotoPax/Tailgater Table and Mount = 285lb
4) ARB Elements 63qt = 70lb

when packed up for camping = extra 285lb
1) Aquatainer 6gal jugs (x2) = 100lb
2) Alubox kitchen box = 50lb
3) Recon Rack w/ MTB's = 135lb

 

[LostWoods]

Maybe a simple swap would be adding Max Tow rear springs, and 1.5" rear spring spacer???

Or you could go with the full EVO 2.5" kit. That would be my top recommendation.

I thought about that, but I'm a "buy once cry once" person and I want to do things properly the first time The EVO 2.5" Stage 1 with my current upgrades should hold me over for a few years until new tires are needed again..haha. I am just confused about the correct length shocks. I hope to call EVO tomorrow but figured I'd ask the group first.

Thanks!

I think bama's point is more that nobody really does a true tow/haul spring (or at least, nobody has done any kind of advertisement for it where they rate it for different static load ranges like a Deaver U402, for example). It's a Jeep so most companies are going to have more of a focus on off-road which typically means softer springs. If you do max tow and spacer, you can still do the longer shocks as if you were using the longer spring so when someone does a proper "overlanding" spring with a focus on load, you can just do the spring swap.

FWIW, I'll be doing the aforementioned spacer method for the rear on my max tow because I want it dialed in with a ~600lb static weight. Yes you lose some articulation over a spring swap but you don't sacrifice load capacity and I can say that the rear max tow springs barely budge with even a few hundred lbs in the bed.

I guess you could otherwise reach out to all the companies to get spring specs and then call up someone like Accutune or Filthy for a consult. They'll talk what springs you need then set up a set of Fox/King shocks dialed in for your axle weights and spring rates. If you want to get really crazy they'll take your articulation measurements and give you a perfect shock length too.

 

[Veloruche]

I think bama's point is more that nobody really does a true tow/haul spring (or at least, nobody has done any kind of advertisement for it where they rate it for different static load ranges like a Deaver U402, for example). It's a Jeep so most companies are going to have more of a focus on off-road which typically means softer springs. If you do max tow and spacer, you can still do the longer shocks as if you were using the longer spring so when someone does a proper "overlanding" spring with a focus on load, you can just do the spring swap.

FWIW, I'll be doing the aforementioned spacer method for the rear on my max tow because I want it dialed in with a ~600lb static weight. Yes you lose some articulation over a spring swap but you don't sacrifice load capacity and I can say that the rear max tow springs barely budge with even a few hundred lbs in the bed.

I guess you could otherwise reach out to all the companies to get spring specs and then call up someone like Accutune or Filthy for a consult. They'll talk what springs you need then set up a set of Fox/King shocks dialed in for your axle weights and spring rates. If you want to get really crazy they'll take your articulation measurements and give you a perfect shock length too.

Lots of great ideas here, I have a question about this and maybe I’ve already missed this but has anyone done the Mopar 2” lift with the 2.5” Fox shocks And a static load?

I plan to add a Alucab full camper and interested if my lift can handle it. Right now it sits empty and I have a good bit of rake and I was thinking I wouldn’t have any issue with the added weight and would in fact level out my truck. Reading what everyone saying about their individual lift and static load I’m concerned I might not have enough spring in the rear.

 

[darkhorse13]

Lots of great ideas here, I have a question about this and maybe I’ve already missed this but has anyone done the Mopar 2” lift with the 2.5” Fox shocks And a static load?

I plan to add a Alucab full camper and interested if my lift can handle it. Right now it sits empty and I have a good bit of rake and I was thinking I wouldn’t have any issue with the added weight and would in fact level out my truck. Reading what everyone saying about their individual lift and static load I’m concerned I might not have enough spring in the rear.

So I have spoken to (2) JTR owners with similar constant load situations. BOTH of them run the Mopar 2" lift and BOTH of them threw the Fox shocks in the trash. Both said the shock valving was wrong for the weight.

User #1: IG @maxtraxhq = AT OVERLAND SUMMIT (~340lb) and drawer system (unknown)
His comments: "Mopar lift Fox shocks have crap valving for the weight, I put King adjustables on all 4 corners and haven't looked back. I also run a Hellwig rear sway bar and it's essential"

User #2: IG @gobi_recon = spoke with him when he had a Rebel Off-Road full rack and RTT (~400lb)
His comments: "Found the rear shocks (Fox 2.5s) to completely under-valved and replaced with Falcon adjustables. I also like a little rake and I added a 3/4" spacer in the rear"

Again, I am trying to find the "correct" springs / shocks for the rear given both of these user comments and I don't believe the Mopar kit is what I'm looking for.

John

 

[Alabama Mud Machine]

He used a 2" lift, plus 3/4" spacer? How high can you go in the rear before you'll need an adjustable rear track bar, or a track bar relocation bracket to keep the rear axle centered under the back end?

 

[darkhorse13]

He used a 2" lift, plus 3/4" spacer? How high can you go in the rear before you'll need an adjustable rear track bar, or a track bar relocation bracket to keep the rear axle centered under the back end?

Yes 2" lift springs plus a 3/4" spacer. This is not uncommon as I've spoke to (3) separate lift manufacturers and they have recommended 3/4" up to 2" inch additional spacers if needed. I am fine with 3/4" spacers but I won't go beyond that.

If you are simply adding a spacer to increase ride height back to advertised mfg claims then you are net-net in ride height. If you're adding spacers to jack up the rear taller than what the mfg has it designed for then you might need those extra components. I'm sure it's recommended to go with adjustable rear links and adj rear track bar on any size lift but I don't know the prescribed lift height when it's "necessary".

My goal is to keep at least a 0.5" rake to level when fully loaded. This probably translates to a 1.0" rake when driving around town without being packed up in the fridge, water jugs and kitchen chuck box.

John

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