All differences between Rubicon and Sport with Max Tow?

[whiteglad]

For many of us, the difference between a Sport S Max Tow and a Rubicon is not so much the additive cost of every difference. It is the additive cost of only those differences we want to have and pay for, tempered by what differences in equipment we would rather do differently. For example I have heard that the electric lockers are not all that strong/durable. Rather than pay for them, I would rather get a Detroit or Yukon for the rear. If I really had to have something in the front, air locker probably.

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[ACAD_Cowboy]

For many of us, the difference between a Sport S Max Tow and a Rubicon is not so much the additive cost of every difference. It is the additive cost of only those differences we want to have and pay for, tempered by what differences in equipment we would rather do differently. For example I have heard that the electric lockers are not all that strong/durable. Rather than pay for them, I would rather get a Detroit or Yukon for the rear. If I really had to have something in the front, air locker probably.

Well I can tell you from ~70k miles on a my15, the lockers are only fragile when you shock load the shit out of them, thing like tac'ing it to 5k and then solidly contacting an unmoving object.

I wheel my rig and I plow with my rig and I've yet to hear a peep from the lockers or the disco so I'm hard pressed to call them weak. This same system is also in the Power Wagon.

Lockers fwiw are not the be all and end all of off roading and if they are what makes or breaks your trip something is wrong.

 

[Proximo]

@Elanachan you have an incredible build in mind. You may want to check out the build of @TTEChris and pick his brain for some insight

 

[whiteglad]

Lockers fwiw are not the be all and end all of off roading and if they are what makes or breaks your trip something is wrong.

I agree. Maybe I am just wimpy, but I try to keep all four tires on the ground and I have never _needed_ a locker on the trails. OTOH, sometimes in snow on side-slope trails with drop-offs, I have been glad I didn't have a locker to spin both rear tires and thus slide the Jeep or truck sideways. My focus had been taking trails for hunting or exploring, not seeking the biggest boulders I could find to see if my Jeep could pretend it is a giant cockroach and climb over them. I recognize that some like to do that, and I don't mean to criticize them, I just don't use my Jeep that way.

 

[Elanachan]

I'm not sure what you are adding to the Rubicon to inflate the MSRP so much.

Like I said, a similarly spec'd Sport S Max Tow and Rubicon is only $3,700 in invoice price difference.

Here's the price difference on the two variants I'm looking at, the safety group and adaptive cruise control is still being decided on:

Rubicon:

Net Pricing
Base Price
$43,875
Added Options
$15,175
8-Speed Automatic 850RE Transmission
$2,000
Hydro Blue Pearl-Coat Exterior Paint
$195
Soft Top Window Storage Bag
$75
Windshield Tie-Down Strap by Mopar®
$40
All-Weather Slush Mats
$165
Hardtop Headliner
$555
Trailer-Tow Package
$350
Cold Weather Group
$995
Premium LED Lighting Group
$1,045
Adaptive Cruise Control/Forward Collision Warning+
$795
Auxiliary Switch Group
$295
8.4-Inch Radio and Premium Audio Group
$1,695
Jeep® Active Safety Group
$895
Cargo Management Group with Trail Rail System
$895
Leather-Trimmed Bucket Seats
$1,495
Winch-Capable Steel Front Bumper
$795
Forward-Facing TrailCam
$595
Dual Top Group
$2,295
Destination Charges
$1,495
Estimated Net Selling Price
$60,545


Sport S:

Net Pricing
Base Price
$36,745
Added Options
$14,275
8-Speed Automatic 850RE Transmission
$2,000
Hydro Blue Pearl-Coat Exterior Paint
$195
Soft Top Window Storage Bag
$75
Windshield Tie-Down Strap by Mopar®
$40
All-Weather Slush Mats
$165
Hardtop Headliner
$555
Convenience Group
$395
Cold Weather Group
$995
Adaptive Cruise Control/Forward Collision Warning+
$795
Auxiliary Switch Group
$295
8.4-Inch Radio and Premium Audio Group
$1,795
Max Tow Package with 4.10 Axle Ratio
$1,195
Jeep® Active Safety Group
$995
Cargo Management Group with Trail Rail System
$895
7.0-Inch Radio Group
$995
Roll-Up Tonneau Cover
$595
Dual Top Group
$2,295
Destination Charges
$1,495
2020 Bonus Cash 20CLA( Disclosure15)
-$2,000
Estimated Net Selling Price
$50,515

 

[ACAD_Cowboy]

Believe me, I wasn't calling you out, mostly speaking to the unseen crowd.

Me, I'm what you might call a cautious wheeler and try to avoid climbing things I know I shouldn't. The also applies to not seeing the winch as a shameful thing and taking the bypass when acceptable. The family always goes with me and to date have always slept in their own beds at the end of the day. I might be up putting a flare back on or beating the diff cover back into shape but that's about the worst of it.

Lockers have a place and a purpose and will fail amazingly when abused. I try to start every ride in 2wd then progressively step it up or down based on conditions. Other guys want to go low and locked right off and skinny pedal through on or over everything and I like sipping my coffee and being fed donuts while the machine does the work of not digesting itself.

 

[Alabama Mud Machine]

Here's the price difference on the two variants I'm looking at, the safety group and adaptive cruise control is still being decided on:

You know regardless of which model you buy, you have a lot of the same options... Most of that shit can be bought aftermarket for WAAAAAAAY cheaper than a factory add-on. Especially the steel winch bumper. The factory bumper doesn't even look that good anyway.

Also, the 8.4" Navi w/ 9-speaker Alpine system is WELL worth the money. Only vehicle I've ever owned I didn't want to immediately change all the stereo equipment out, including the head unit.

Get the 3-piece Freedom hardtop, and then buy an aftermarket soft top later...MUCH cheaper.

If you plan on wheeling this thing, the "active safety group" is a complete waste of money.

Cargo management and roll-up tonneau can be added later (aftermarket is probably better quality anyway).

Hardtop headliner, go aftermarket...Same thing, way cheaper.

If you can get a Rubi under $50K out the door...Go that route. I got mine for like $46K + taxes and fees, ended up being right at $50K for a fully-decked JTR without leather, and without the bullshit factory add-on options. It has the AUX switches, and the $195 paint upgrade. Has the 8.4" Navi w/ 9-speaker Alpine system, 3-piece Freedom hardtop, etc... But none of that fancy extra added crap like the "I'm a shitty driver" package, and the metal winch bumper...that is unnecessary (IMO). Add an aftermarket winch bumper with a brush guard later for less than the factory metal bumper.

 

[whiteglad]

The JT I bought came with the premium soft top. I found a take-off hardtop afterwards, and put it in the basement. Unless the zombies cut up my top and ransack the interior, I will probably never use the hardtop. Another good approach might be the factory HT only, and get the Bestop soft top that replaces the front pieces. As for a lot of the other stuff, it is personal preference. I tend to agree on a lot of it that the aftermarket is a viable choice, and you can decide on those things later. The heavy duty hard parts are better chosen as part of the factory build. Do you really want electric lockers, or just the HD differentials that are also used by the max tow package? Do you really want some option that is not available on the Sport S? I suspect that the factory puts max tow only on that platform because they get better tow and haul numbers with Sport S that has fewer weight adding options, and the best suspension for towing and hauling does not conflict with the Rubicon suspension goals. Do you want 4:1 or 2.72:1 transfer case? I really prefer the latter after having the former, where 4Hi was too high and 4Lo was too low on a lot of the trails I take.

 

[Bobzdar]

Here's the price difference on the two variants I'm looking at, the safety group and adaptive cruise control is still being decided on:

Rubicon:

Net Pricing
Base Price
$43,875
Added Options
$15,175
8-Speed Automatic 850RE Transmission
$2,000
Hydro Blue Pearl-Coat Exterior Paint
$195
Soft Top Window Storage Bag
$75
Windshield Tie-Down Strap by Mopar®
$40
All-Weather Slush Mats
$165
Hardtop Headliner
$555
Trailer-Tow Package
$350
Cold Weather Group
$995
Premium LED Lighting Group
$1,045
Adaptive Cruise Control/Forward Collision Warning+
$795
Auxiliary Switch Group
$295
8.4-Inch Radio and Premium Audio Group
$1,695
Jeep® Active Safety Group
$895
Cargo Management Group with Trail Rail System
$895
Leather-Trimmed Bucket Seats
$1,495
Winch-Capable Steel Front Bumper
$795
Forward-Facing TrailCam
$595
Dual Top Group
$2,295
Destination Charges
$1,495
Estimated Net Selling Price
$60,545


Sport S:

Net Pricing
Base Price
$36,745
Added Options
$14,275
8-Speed Automatic 850RE Transmission
$2,000
Hydro Blue Pearl-Coat Exterior Paint
$195
Soft Top Window Storage Bag
$75
Windshield Tie-Down Strap by Mopar®
$40
All-Weather Slush Mats
$165
Hardtop Headliner
$555
Convenience Group
$395
Cold Weather Group
$995
Adaptive Cruise Control/Forward Collision Warning+
$795
Auxiliary Switch Group
$295
8.4-Inch Radio and Premium Audio Group
$1,795
Max Tow Package with 4.10 Axle Ratio
$1,195
Jeep® Active Safety Group
$995
Cargo Management Group with Trail Rail System
$895
7.0-Inch Radio Group
$995
Roll-Up Tonneau Cover
$595
Dual Top Group
$2,295
Destination Charges
$1,495
2020 Bonus Cash 20CLA( Disclosure15)
-$2,000
Estimated Net Selling Price
$50,515

Yeah, you're adding what, $3k worth of stuff to the Rubicon that isn't available on the sport s?

 

[Elanachan]

You know regardless of which model you buy, you have a lot of the same options... Most of that shit can be bought aftermarket for WAAAAAAAY cheaper than a factory add-on. Especially the steel winch bumper. The factory bumper doesn't even look that good anyway.

--snip--

Get the 3-piece Freedom hardtop, and then buy an aftermarket soft top later...MUCH cheaper.

If you plan on wheeling this thing, the "active safety group" is a complete waste of money.

Cargo management and roll-up tonneau can be added later (aftermarket is probably better quality anyway).

While I'm willing to consider other options, I personally really like the factory option for the steel bumper.

I also looked to see what options are available for aftermarket soft tops and failed to find anything for the JT.

As far as the active safety group, couldn't the blind spot detection warn of obstacles to the side of the vehicle, increasing situational awareness for say, making sure you don't sideswipe something while trying to maneuver in a tight space? I've seen situations where a vehicle's driver is having to pay attention to half a dozen things simultaneously, I could see having that might be helpful, if it does indeed have such applications.

On the point of the cargo management on the tonneau cover, on the Sport S, the tonneau is manditory with the dual-top group, I would probably go without if I could. The trail rails on the other hand I would make extensive use of for more mundane tasks that require it to also be a work vehicle, not just a toy. I had nissan's version of the bed rails in my Frontier before I was forced to sell it last july, and pretty much anything that wasn't bulk items like cinder blocks, bags of potting soil, etc, used the rails to tie down the loads. I also find the 110 outlet in the bed attractive.

Yeah, you're adding what, $3k worth of stuff to the Rubicon that isn't available on the sport s?

Stuff I might get if it were avalible on the Sport S, the trailcam and steel bumper for example.

 

[Gatorized]

While I'm willing to consider other options, I personally really like the factory option for the steel bumper.

I also looked to see what options are available for aftermarket soft tops and failed to find anything for the JT.

As far as the active safety group, couldn't the blind spot detection warn of obstacles to the side of the vehicle, increasing situational awareness for say, making sure you don't sideswipe something while trying to maneuver in a tight space? I've seen situations where a vehicle's driver is having to pay attention to half a dozen things simultaneously, I could see having that might be helpful, if it does indeed have such applications.

On the point of the cargo management on the tonneau cover, on the Sport S, the tonneau is manditory with the dual-top group, I would probably go without if I could. The trail rails on the other hand I would make extensive use of for more mundane tasks that require it to also be a work vehicle, not just a toy. I had nissan's version of the bed rails in my Frontier before I was forced to sell it last july, and pretty much anything that wasn't bulk items like cinder blocks, bags of potting soil, etc, used the rails to tie down the loads. I also find the 110 outlet in the bed attractive.



Stuff I might get if it were avalible on the Sport S, the trailcam and steel bumper for example.

The blind spot detector doesn’t detect inanimate objects, but the park sense might. Best to consider the optional electronic add-ons now as some are impossible to get aftermarket. Proximity locks are a good example.
Trail rails are cheaper aftermarket- plenty of examples I; this forum both DIY and purchased.
Sunrider with the hardtop is a good compromise.
The bed outlet is limited functionality so consider that along with the cost.
Trail cam only on the Rubicon but there is an aftermarket option from .zautomotive. Review its requirements before you order.

 

[ACAD_Cowboy]

I fail to see how, between the lift and the 40" tires, that this truck would be anything other than a toy with the bed being as high as it will be. This is also a lot of investment in a daily driver/family truckster that may see trails perhaps one out of every thousand miles and is being built to tackle a very small portion of a very specific trail.

Lets say the trail fairy comes and waves her wand and presto, you suddenly have the gladiator of your dreams. And she covered the taxes, dmv and insurance! And a tank of fuel!! She's good like that. Now in the next 365 days how many days would be spent on trails and of these days how many would be capable in a stock truck.

For myself I have two scheduled full day outings and an unknown amd variable number of days plowing, one year it was 45 and this year it was 1. I also have an unknown number of incidental days doing tasks, which i could say is 5. It would be a very tough sell to say Honey, I NEED to set aside 10% of the household income because one of the rock at massmog is just a little too big for me to get over easily and we will only be deriving any benefits perhaps two weeks a year. A very hard sell indeed.

Also, the safety packages are not designed to detect trees and rocks like you are thinking. Will they? They might, until the sensor gets mushed. The best tools on the trail are the good old fashioned Mk.1 mod.0 eyeballs and mirrors & spotters. Adaptive cruise is useless off a highway. The cameras are cute but are no replacement for going in a pair, one is none two is one and all that.

Just trying to shed a little contrast on project and not trying to dump on the dream. I support what you want to do but want to see you happy not broke.

 

[ZTMAN]

Just my 2 cents, don't get paralysis by analysis.

If you go Sport S and bolt on a lot of after market parts, vs getting a Rubicon with factory parts, you may be disappointed with the value of the Sport if you get rid of it in the next few years.

I was not shopping for a Rubicon, but drove away with one. The net difference between the Sport S I was looking at and the JTR was $7k, but I would have added tires, rock rails, bed line, tonneau etc... So the difference was really around $5k and the JTR had a lot of extras that the Sport did not have.

Have fun shopping. In PA, you cannot even buy a vehicle from a dealer now.

 

[Alabama Mud Machine]

I fail to see how, between the lift and the 40" tires, that this truck would be anything other than a toy with the bed being as high as it will be. This is also a lot of investment in a daily driver/family truckster that may see trails perhaps one out of every thousand miles and is being built to tackle a very small portion of a very specific trail.

Lets say the trail fairy comes and waves her wand and presto, you suddenly have the gladiator of your dreams. And she covered the taxes, dmv and insurance! And a tank of fuel!! She's good like that. Now in the next 365 days how many days would be spent on trails and of these days how many would be capable in a stock truck.

For myself I have two scheduled full day outings and an unknown amd variable number of days plowing, one year it was 45 and this year it was 1. I also have an unknown number of incidental days doing tasks, which i could say is 5. It would be a very tough sell to say Honey, I NEED to set aside 10% of the household income because one of the rock at massmog is just a little too big for me to get over easily and we will only be deriving any benefits perhaps two weeks a year. A very hard sell indeed.

Also, the safety packages are not designed to detect trees and rocks like you are thinking. Will they? They might, until the sensor gets mushed. The best tools on the trail are the good old fashioned Mk.1 mod.0 eyeballs and mirrors & spotters. Adaptive cruise is useless off a highway. The cameras are cute but are no replacement for going in a pair, one is none two is one and all that.

Just trying to shed a little contrast on project and not trying to dump on the dream. I support what you want to do but want to see you happy not broke.

I agree. I built my 07 2500 Cummins as a brand new truck... 6” Fabtech lift, 38x15.50 Mud Grapps, 20x10 wheels, performance parts out the wahoo, etc... It can pull a skyscraper...As long as it will fit on a bumper-pull...It’s completely negated it’s purpose as a hauler for goosenecks or 5th-wheels. The bed is too tall to put anything in. And I’m not a small guy (6 foot). It’s good at offroading, it’s good at mud, it’s good at hauling people, and hauling ass...But that’s about it.

That’s why I traded my Mustang GT for the JTR...I need something practical with 4-doors, a bed, and 4x4. That’s why I’m only going 37’s on mine with a 2.5” lift. I would just go 35’s, but it will look goofy with the huge fender wells...It already looks goofy enough stock with 33’s (personal opinion).

But I have to say, if building a $100K Jeep Gladiator (like he’s describing) is only 10% of your family income, then by all means, go for it! I wish I had that kind of money! My $50K Jeep cost more than my yearly income.

 

[whiteglad]

It might be instructive to go on Kelley blue book and see what options are check boxes for resale/trade-in. I think some of what you want is listed, so it wouldn't matter which platform you bought. I think custom wheels, bed liner, winch, are some of them. Over the years I have found that I can get a new vehicle NOW if I get what I need, but will have to wait for at least a year if I get everything I might WANT. Do you like better fuel mileage? If so, the factory did pretty well, especially on the lower lines like Sport S with milder tires, no lift, bumper fairings, etc. Braking is excellent, acceleration is good. Put on those monster John Deere tires and your JT will look oh so impressive while giving poor mileage, acceleration, braking. Do you really want one top on the Jeep and the other in the basement, at full retail price? The Bestop Sunrider on the hardtop is pretty nice when you take the "freedom" panels off, if you ever do so. The premium soft top is very nice and half the price of the hard top, even without buying the Sunrider for the HT. If you want to rock crawl, etc. where 40" tires are needed on the JT, shouldn't you really be getting a Wrangler which is better for such crawling? As others have noted, you won't be doing much if any towing or hauling anyway.
I too am not trying to criticize, just point out the winning trucks at SEMA are not what anyone would actually use. In my last bighorn sheep hunt, my guide used a stock 4x4 pickup with stock size tires, no lift. Each tire was a different brand, because he bought a tire when he needed it.

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