Anyone else use this ATF in their Gladiator 8-speed?

[Maximus Gladius]

I have seen my trans temp go 220+ and stay there many times. Could that be part of my trans issues? I don't tow.

Hope this helps

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[Stan H]

For me, if I saw that, I’d have a sh$&! But many have seen those temps before and I’d guess the consensus would be from some who are wiser and much smarter that the oil and tranny can go even hotter before there’s concern. Heat kills trannies but I don’t know at what temperature heat starts doing damage. @ShadowsPapa would definitely be the one to say.

Well in some of the documents shared here the flash point is 402 degrees Fahrenheit. That is super hot . I can see towing grade for long distance making transmission climb that high. ( hope you spray dust out of the radiator etc..) but I usually never see mine go above 199 even on a long uphill pull going 65-70mph but it has to be about 90degrees Farenheit outside

 

[Hootbro]

Hope this helps

What is that derived from? I think there is more leeway with modern synthetic base fluids than mineral based ones.

 

[Stan H]

What is that derived from? I think there is more leeway with modern synthetic base fluids than mineral based ones.

That would have me changing fluid every spring

 

[Maximus Gladius]

What is that derived from? I think there is more leeway with modern synthetic base fluids than mineral based ones.

Ai. We didn’t have @ShadowsPapa chime in so I settled for second best.

 

[Maximus Gladius]

That would have me changing fluid every spring

Like me I wouldn’t be so alone then.

 

[DanW]

What is that derived from? I think there is more leeway with modern synthetic base fluids than mineral based ones.

Bingo. There are wide variations in fluids and their make-up and resistance to oxidation/breakdown. More information is needed on this graph. Just on the surface, whatever fluid they measured looks weak.

 

[Maximus Gladius]

Bingo. There are wide variations in fluids and their make-up and resistance to oxidation/breakdown. More information is needed on this graph. Just on the surface, whatever fluid they measured looks weak.

Here’s a graph showing both full and semi syn ATF. Sure it’s Ai, maybe there’s some wiggle room for discrepancies in how it comes up with the curve but if it’s in the ball park, we as drivers should be noting what temps we get up to and consider that maybe it’s “lifetime” could have shortened.

Let’s say the graph is correct and that we assume for a moment those two lines are showing Mopar 8/9 (they aren’t, the graph is generic) as being both full and semi syn, because it’s been published as both but my lab tech can’t tell me by my lab results what the 8/9 Speed is,… my question would be if the ATF’s life is up, done, used up, additives are depleted at at the points this graph shows, why would we ever accept the manufacturer’s position that this oil should run its life out before changing it?

Is there no cause and effect from additive depletion that’s taken place 30k, 40k earlier? Some see 220+ once in a while on a long trip towing etc… I don’t know, no body lab tests their transmission oil or try to get oxidation numbers. I guess it’s easier trading it in at 50k.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Hope this helps

Where did THOSE come from? 1960?
Funny - really. 25,000 miles? Hardly. Wow, everyone would be trashing transmissions just in normal use.

Most of the charts you find online are from the mid-1990s or so, older transmissions, older fluid formulations, non-synthetics and so on. Get some modern info, new stuff, the last couple of decades at least.

Why in the world has this gotten so bloody complicated? Mostly one set of posts that is more like a college thesis than anything, and the source material? Really sad.
14 pages, and still debate, with nothing but stuff being tossed out.

using the recommended fluid will not cause any damage at 220 degrees. You won't have to change your fluid at 25,000 miles if you see 220 degrees.
Do it if you want - but it's not damaging anything - IF you use the correct fluids.

And my thoughts are NOT against what Hootbro does. Again, he does his thing, his reasons, and he never once says he's right or wrong. I have so much respect for the guy - I mean a LOT.
I am saying that - go for it if you want, but don't use something like that as anything saying "maybe you should". If you want, go for it............. but I've taken transmissions way over 30,000 miles,, towing tractors and other heavy loads, and temps up in the 220 range (Chevy truck) and no issues. (had I kept that truck, I'd likely have changed it at 60,000 miles "just because" it hauled HEAVY loads)

I have to really stay out of the transmission threads here - it's really just too sad. Not a single person here has any hands on, or training, but are trying to lead thousands with conjecture and worse and college theme papers or whatever, based on stuff from forums.

These are among the best transmissions in the world. They are used in cars where the recommended change is up there in the 80K-90K range or so. It's not even 2010 any more.

Here's my thesis on it:

Use ZF or MOPAR fluid - buy on Amazon. (Valvoline may be ok - but if I were to switch, I'd for sure do a full flush-out of all of the old fluid - multiple changes)
Go by the book - keeping in mind anything in the book is based on "normal driving" or use.
IF you tow - cut those numbers.
If you off-road - definitely cut those numbers. You are really using a lot of torque and the gearing inside for that purpose, placing a lot of load on things. If I did what Stan does or that wild man, the wild hobo does, yes, I'd not go over 50K (maybe less if I really hit hard trails)
Off-road use is hard on things - duh.

Towing it will totally depend. 5,000 pounds is hardly a real load and I didn't see high transmission temperatures and I drove and managed it to prevent hunting. Hunting is hard on any transmission. Any time it changes "gears" it's applying and releasing clutches and so on. There's always some slippage - minor, but can't discount it.
So when I'd suggest towing you won't want to go full miles on it - you have to use your head - use your experience with it - how many hills, how much shifting, and use your own reasoning.

It truly is simple as heck.

The only time I've seen issues is when people got the transmission hot - and by hot I mean over 240 or so for more than a very short time.

What is that derived from? I think there is more leeway with modern synthetic base fluids than mineral based ones.

Bingo - as always, Hootbro nails it.
Yes, to the synthetic, but more to the chemistry - the formulation. MODERN fluids make such a chart look really antiquated.

But again, they also said the chemistry matters - thus, choose a quality fluid that meets the specs (and they can prove it)

Still baffled by the idea you save money by switching to cheaper fluids....... on a part that costs thousands of dollars in a very expensive truck.

If you change fluid even at every 40K - over the life of the vehicle, or your ownership - how much have you saved? All that much?

Cut back on the cigarettes. I'd say beer - but I'd really be flamed for that suggestion.

Why is it so complicated?
People in a chair trying to outthink the engineers, and those who have tested these things in labs. Or - no, won't say it again.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Here’s a graph showing both full and semi syn ATF. Sure it’s Ai, maybe there’s some wiggle room for discrepancies in how it comes up with the curve but if it’s in the ball park, we as drivers should be noting what temps we get up to and consider that maybe it’s “lifetime” could have shortened.

Let’s say the graph is correct and that we assume for a moment those two lines are showing Mopar 8/9 (they aren’t, the graph is generic) as being both full and semi syn, because it’s been published as both but my lab tech can’t tell me by my lab results what the 8/9 Speed is,… my question would be if the ATF’s life is up, done, used up, additives are depleted at at the points this graph shows, why would we ever accept the manufacturer’s position that this oil should run its life out before changing it?

Is there no cause and effect from additive depletion that’s taken place 30k, 40k earlier? We see 220+ once in a while on a long trip towing etc… I don’t know, no body lab tests their transmission oil or try to get oxidation numbers. I guess it’s easier trading it in at 50k.

Time to dump the charts, stop trying to over-think it. There's a good reason people go 100,000 miles and more on these transmissions without any issue and with perhaps one fluid change, if that

.but.........but..............but........the charts!

220 degrees is no issue at all, 250 is manageable.........

You know that the numbers ZF and others use (Mercedes and so on) have a buffer built in, knowing that very few actually watch temperatures at all, and few will do the changes as suggested, most will even go over. When they say it's good to 90K, they really know it will be good to 110K, but don't dare say that because people will do it.

 

[Stan H]

Here’s a graph showing both full and semi syn ATF. Sure it’s Ai, maybe there’s some wiggle room for discrepancies in how it comes up with the curve but if it’s in the ball park, we as drivers should be noting what temps we get up to and consider that maybe it’s “lifetime” could have shortened.

Let’s say the graph is correct and that we assume for a moment those two lines are showing Mopar 8/9 (they aren’t, the graph is generic) as being both full and semi syn, because it’s been published as both but my lab tech can’t tell me by my lab results what the 8/9 Speed is,… my question would be if the ATF’s life is up, done, used up, additives are depleted at at the points this graph shows, why would we ever accept the manufacturer’s position that this oil should run its life out before changing it?

Is there no cause and effect from additive depletion that’s taken place 30k, 40k earlier? Some see 220+ once in a while on a long trip towing etc… I don’t know, no body lab tests their transmission oil or try to get oxidation numbers. I guess it’s easier trading it in at 50k.

Well to be fair mine runs 192-199 on 75-90°degree Fahrenheit days while pulling up hill at 65&70mph look at that chart on the blue line that would place my fluid change firmly in the 93-95k territory which matches ZF's 93,200k fluid change recommendation . And seeing was AI generated it is hard to say what source that draws from.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Well to be fair mine runs 192-199 on 75-90°degree Fahrenheit days while pulling up hill at 65&70mph look at that chart on the blue line that would place my fluid change firmly in the 93-95k territory which matches ZF's 93,200k fluid change recommendation . And seeing was AI generated it is hard to say what source that draws from.

Quote often - forums or reddit and so on.

ironically, I did a search for something a while back and got an AI response that was a boil down of stuff from the internet and one of the sources was ME. I had to laugh.

 

[Stan H]

Quote often - forums or reddit and so on.

ironically, I did a search for something a while back and got an AI response that was a boil down of stuff from the internet and one of the sources was ME. I had to laugh.

Hey when ya got it ya got it @ShadowsPapa

 

[Maximus Gladius]

Quote often - forums or reddit and so on.

ironically, I did a search for something a while back and got an AI response that was a boil down of stuff from the internet and one of the sources was ME. I had to laugh.

Hahaha, after I read @StanH post, my immediate response was to say it learned from you! . and then I read your reply

 

[Hootbro]

Here’s a graph showing both full and semi syn ATF. Sure it’s Ai, maybe there’s some wiggle room for discrepancies in how it comes up with the curve but if it’s in the ball park, we as drivers should be noting what temps we get up to and consider that maybe it’s “lifetime” could have shortened.

Let’s say the graph is correct and that we assume for a moment those two lines are showing Mopar 8/9 (they aren’t, the graph is generic) as being both full and semi syn, because it’s been published as both but my lab tech can’t tell me by my lab results what the 8/9 Speed is,… my question would be if the ATF’s life is up, done, used up, additives are depleted at at the points this graph shows, why would we ever accept the manufacturer’s position that this oil should run its life out before changing it?

Is there no cause and effect from additive depletion that’s taken place 30k, 40k earlier? Some see 220+ once in a while on a long trip towing etc… I don’t know, no body lab tests their transmission oil or try to get oxidation numbers. I guess it’s easier trading it in at 50k.

That plots about right for the 60K to 80K miles ZF recommends for their fluid changes. I do not think I have ever seen my transmission fluid temps get above 220F and usually averages between high 190's F to 215F most summer days.

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