Bent Frame

[Artsifrtsi]

So I finally got around to checking mine…

Bad news, 2020 JTR Launch Edition and I’ve got the dimple on both driver and passenger frame rails.

That being said I’ve not gone easy on the truck and have had no issues. Looks like no full send for me!

Yep, I checked on my 2020 O'land, gator green so its a late model year... I have the dimples on both sides.

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[piroman683]

I have dimples on both sides, I've gone full send at 70mph, and hard bottom out which resulted in me bending the stock bump stop. I've done other jumps at 50+mph, frame is still fine.

Attaching things to the bedrails creats additional loading on all the bed joints. If you look at the underside of the bed you can see a lot of thinner material that provides structural support and stiffness in order to carry heavy loads in the bed (not the bedrails).

The frame is a hardened formed steel, very difficult to drill into and cut with a saw/cutoff wheel as compared to typical steel. The dimples are part of the frame forming process and actually stiffen things up. This is because when steel is cold worked (hydroforming process in this case) material becomes much stronger at the trade off of becoming more brittle, but not brittle enough to cause worry. A good way to think about cold working is when you bend a paperclip back and forth. You are never able to make it go back to the same shape (when using the same bending motion) as it started because the spot that was unbent was cold worked, it is now stiffer, and now the non stiffer material (not weaker because it didn't lose strength) is what starts bending. This is done over and over until the paperclip breaks.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

It's high strength steel - folks can look it up
It's more brittle but a lot stronger resisting bending, allowing a frame just as strong with less weight. You are more likely to crack HSS than to bend it.

 

[Jeepasaurus_Rex]

It's high strength steel - folks can look it up
It's more brittle but a lot stronger resisting bending, allowing a frame just as strong with less weight. You are more likely to crack HSS than to bend it.

Pretty sure that is why the ARB bumpers are so appealing, they use HSS as well

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Pretty sure that is why the ARB bumpers are so appealing, they use HSS as well

If they indeed use HSS (high strength steel) then they can make them lighter and just as strong - less likely to "bend" in an impact. I've not looked so maybe they do - if so - good for them.

 

[ecidiego]

The dimples are part of the frame forming process and actually stiffen things up.

Dimples went away tho in later builds... mine doesn't have them. Weaker frame now? LOL

 

[Jeepasaurus_Rex]

If they indeed use HSS (high strength steel) then they can make them lighter and just as strong - less likely to "bend" in an impact. I've not looked so maybe they do - if so - good for them.

I'm like 95% certain they do. I can recall reading something about it a few years ago. It's a lighter bumper, but was more pricey. And after looking into why it was more pricey, I believe it was the use of the HSS

 

[piroman683]

Dimples went away tho in later builds... mine doesn't have them. Weaker frame now? LOL

True, and my best guess is there was some type of cost savings associated with removing them.

I met Deryl who runs Dest in the Desert racing series and he had been apparently hired by Jeep as a consultant to help them understand desert racing/prerunning during the development phase of the gladiator. He told me the Mojave was actually supposed to be released first but final design/analysis took longer so the other varients were released since they were not targeted for the desert so to say.

He mentioned Jeeps biggest concern was not having frames bend on big G-outs or pre-mature fatigue fracking/failure like the 1st gen raptors experienced. I'm not very familiar with 1st gen raptors so I'm not sure as to how bad of an issue that was, but if that was one of Jeeps concern (aside from the cooling challenge) then good on them.

In the end of my conversation with him he mentioned it was his understanding that for the Mojave the extra frame reinforcement was the easiest thing to do to get it to market sooner. At the same time the non-Mojave frame is incredibly strong and not likely to bend (in relative terms). The Mojave has extra just to CYA was his point.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

True, and my best guess is there was some type of cost savings associated with removing them.

Possible crash test issues? Again, that's a "guess"..............
Removing a stamping process shouldn't result in savings - unless they had to take an extra step to put them there. (refer back to my 2nd sentence LOL)

 

[Bonanza]

Just checked mine: 2020 Max Tow sport. Dimples both sides.

 

[Dakarra]

From the looks of it- the guys at gofastcampers are running fox 2.5’s or fox 3.0 racing shocks…. (Only the Mojave shocks could come close to similar performance in factory form).

I am not an engineer…. So, I am asking- what about the shocks is causing frame issues? Is it the angle in which they are mounted that’s putting too much stress on the frame or??

I drive like a peckerhead sometimes in the desert and really don’t want toget into a frame swap scenario…

Also find it interesting that even the Mojave’s frame isn’t enforced where this one and others keep bending….. and supposedly the Mojave is supposed to be full send capable??



seeing comments on thinking bump stops are improperly set and relying on shocks.
While possible…. That really makes me cringe to think someone throwing $4000 at shocks and not setting bump stops…?
It’s all speculation.
Without knowing their full setup. ??‍

going to be looking at stacking some steel where this bend keeps occurring- call it preventative maintenance.

Autowerx stated that the OEM inserted a "weakness" when they modified the frame to create a mounting location for the bump-stops. What used to be straight now has a bit of a curve in order to mount the bump-stop, and this is the weak point is bending. Interesting that you mention the Mojave as the only trim that is set up that way - Mojave is the only one being built with the factory brace installed.

So you raise an interesting point: If people are lifting and modifying their suspension to accommodate their personal needs, could it be that they are creating a "Mojave-like" setup that would not include the factory-developed brace - thereby setting up the failure mode... ? Things that make us say "hmmnnnn...."

 

[chorky]

I thought I read somewhere not long ago that HSS requires some pretty specific welding techniques to actually work correctly and not cause damage, as well as concerns about welding standard steel to HSS. That makes me wonder about those brackets the OP was talking about. Im no welder though so I could be way wrong. Worth looking into though.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I thought I read somewhere not long ago that HSS requires some pretty specific welding techniques to actually work correctly and not cause damage, as well as concerns about welding standard steel to HSS. That makes me wonder about those brackets the OP was talking about. Im no welder though so I could be way wrong. Worth looking into though.

Yes.

 

[chorky]

Yes.

Thats what I thought, so then those brackets are essentially useless, and will cause even more damage than they will help if not welded correctly. Isn't the entire frame HSS? I dont see how you can make it half and half. Hmm that sounds like I need more coffee....

 

[Rusty PW]

Can high strength steel be welded?

When high strength, quenched and tempered steels are welded, the heat from the arc can alter the temper on the material. For this reason, it is recommended to weld the material in the annealed condition whenever possible. Proper preheat and post-weld heat treatment are essential to minimize cracking risks.

Meaning that you have to anneal the frame before welding on it. Then heat treating to bring it back to it's original strength.

I know, I know........people have been welding on the frame for a while. Are they welding engineers? Most likely not. Can they weld? Yes. Does it mean they are doing it right? No. Are they doing a preheat of the weld area? What temp are they bringing the weld area up to? Some HSS, you have to bring it up to 700F before welding. Post weld, are they wrapping the weld area with a heat blanket to slow cool? Cool the weld area too quick will lead to cracking of weld. And the weld may pull out of the parent metal. Heating treating. You have the ramp up the heating in steps to the desired temp. Depending on material, the temps could be around 1,400F. Depending on thickness, is how long you hold it there. Then you ramp down the temp in steps until room temp. Some HSS, you have to go straight from welding to heat treating. You can't leave the material cool at all.

Have to out for what HSS stands for. It could also mean Hollow Structural Sections. Which is what the JT's frame is.

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