Clayton 3.5 Kit & 37s... is this normal?

[Dougstdig]

My money is on the negative offset wheels. Keep this in mind. Nothing good happens if your offset is too wide.
1. Wear out ball joints quicker due to increased leverage. With the stock joints it’s only a question of when, not if. With -18, you’ll visit that expense quicker.
2. Increase your scrub radius
3. At highway speeds the drag from your tires can cause a toe out condition. Dynatrac or Eddie with [Banned Site] has a great video on this.

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[hjdca]

Thanks to everyone who's responded thus far, really appreciate the suggestions and feedback.



I had debated quite a bit on the wheel/tire weight but had seen quite a few posts on here stating it didn't matter too much in the scheme of things. Obviously swapping wheels and tires isn't really a route I'd like to go at this point but It's something I'll keep in mind as far as performance goes.

Definitely going to take a look at further adjusting the shocks and tire pressure though.



Not sure what offset your wheels are, but I think mine don't look "brodozer", but I suppose it's all subjective....

From what I can tell all of that was done. Here's the alignment sheet, excuse the lower quality I don't have access to a scanner at the moment:

I remember seeing your post; I did decide to go ahead and order the steering system and stabilizer. Hoping I end up with a similar improvement.

I have the same lift kit with 37s and I ran it for a long time with the stock steering components. You should not have any problems. I bet that if you increase your Caster to 6.5+ and decrease your toe to half of what is on your sheet, like .13 or so, your problem will go away.

Here is how you do it. On the front, on the Clayton Control arms, lengthen the lowers by 1/2 turn, and shorten the upper control arms by 1/2 turn.
On the tie rod, just lengthen it about 5 to 10 degrees.

 

[DailyMoparGuy]

I have this issue too on lightweight 35s, stock offset. My steering stabilizer masked it some for now but it’s not a solution.

Go try to move your drag link with your hand while the truck is sitting level. Mine moves and I’m betting it’s the issue. I just haven’t found time to get it replaced to find out. I’m gonna run it until the ends are bad since my shimmy is pretty tolerable.

Also like others said, get your caster up towards +6

 

[Burghardphotography]

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Not sure what offset your wheels are, but I think mine don't look "brodozer", but I suppose it's all subjective....

I fell in love with a wheel that I had to have, only caveat is they are -25 offset. ? Figured if it was too much I’d just end up selling them, so I had to try at least…? Haha

 

[CrazyCooter]

I have the same lift kit with 37s and I ran it for a long time with the stock steering components. You should not have any problems. I bet that if you increase your Caster to 6.5+ and decrease your toe to half of what is on your sheet, like .13 or so, your problem will go away.

Here is how you do it. On the front, on the Clayton Control arms, lengthen the lowers by 1/2 turn, and shorten the upper control arms by 1/2 turn.
On the tie rod, just lengthen it about 5 to 10 degrees.

Caster increase of that small amount wont do jack..........and the high toe is likely helping the situation with the high offset wide wheels.

 

[hjdca]

Caster increase of that small amount wont do jack..........and the high toe is likely helping the situation with the high offset wide wheels.

My rough calculations when I did it about 1 year ago is that turning all 4 Clayton arms up front 1/2 turn (lengthen lowers, shorten uppers) gives you about a .4 increase in Caster. It may need a full turn, but, I would try 1/2 turn at a time.

 

[JMJ52876]

Ok, I can help you with this. I hve the 2.5 Clayton with 37s, Method wheels with 0 offset. I had the same issues you are having. Before I dropped a lot of coin on replacing all my steering, I tried front lower arm drop brackets first. Completely fixed the issue, and gave me back a more factory feel.

There are a lot of companies that make these, I went with Metalcloak's and it worked out great. I still have all my factory steering, minus the fox steering stabilizer I installed. Trust me, this is your answer.
https://metalcloak.com/jl-wrangler-hd-control-arm-pro-lignment-kit.html

 

[CrazyCooter]

For the best performance on a stock width axle you need the lightest wheel/tire combo and keep it as close to in the fender as possible obviously........Unsprung weight is never a good thing unless you are paving new asphalt roads. Everything else is a compromise that depending on a person's use, the negatives tolerable are variable.

I've put enough JL/JT's together in the shop to know that with a 37x12.50, 17x8.5, and a 0 offset is the minimum needed to run the front Fox 2.5's on a Rubi with a flexy suspension as the inner tire just eats the 90° fitting. +25 will still fit the fender opening and put the tire almost inside the fender, but no clearance for the shock fitting. A 17x9 you could probably get away with a +10 offset.

I can agree those Black Rhino wheels are pretty cool looking, but they are just WAY too heavy and the width/offsets don't work for making a vehicle perform and ride nice. If a person's priority is look, then you have to give up on the performance.

 

[CrazyCooter]

Steering damper solved my bump steer issue with mine 37, but i also have f/r track bars. Still on stock tie rod and drag link.

A steering stabilizer cannot fix bumpsteer.

I think you have the term confused with the condition......Bumpsteer is caused by the steering linkage not swinging the same arc as the axle leading to the steering wheel changing position in relationship to the axle's vertical location.

What I see in the OP's video is the axle/tires probably flopping around due to them leaving the ground because of poor shock damping amplified by the added weight, leverage, and air pressure of the heavy wheel combo. A good steering stabilizer "would" likely damp this condition. Think about how hard a 160lb basket ball would be to control should it go off course from a controlled dribble.

 

[BlueScapegoat]

I skimmed the thread so I'm probably going to repeat a lot of what was said, but, in my experience setting up vehicle with as large of tires on even smaller axles...

I wouldn't call that bump steer by definition, as CrazyCooter just pointed out. It's bump induced shimmy, but not bump steer.

Stock steering should be fine too. It's pretty beefy on these trucks, and the tie rod is knuckle-knuckle. None of that inverted-Y stuff.

Steering stabilizers mask problems, they don't fix them. And if you throw a nice stabilizer on a vehicle with bad wobble issues it'll just cook your new stabilizer. However, in this situation, it's not a straight up death wobble. It's obviously sorting itself out in short order. Which leads me to...

More caster would be helpful. You can dial in more. Geometry correction brackets, as somebody else pointed out, would also likely help. But shouldn't be required.

Of course taking it back to the shop is the way to do it, but you can always lay under it and have somebody wiggle the wheel. Make sure the track bar adjustment nut and both ends of the bar are torqued and there's no play. Those adjustment nuts take a lot of torque to properly tighten.
Same with the drag link adjuster, that would have been loosened to align your steering. Make sure it's tight.

The offset wheels on their own shouldn't cause these issues either, especially at only 17" diameter. But it will make the vehicle more susceptible to any catalyst. Like a loose bolt, worn mount, not enough caster, out of balance tires, etc, can all compound with a big bump in the road and your heavy offset wheels to result in a wobble.

And maybe try stiffening up those shocks some and see if that has a positive effect. I was once told to think of suspension as controlling the axles, not controlling the chassis, and it made me look at things differently. There's a good chance having them set all the way soft is allowing them to bounce around too much and that force is getting transmitted up the steering. Maybe. I have a set of RS9000XLs set full soft on my TJ controlling very heavy bead locked 37s and I don't have any shimmy.

 

[Orange01z28]

If -18 is nearing brodozer territory, I worry what the ones I have sitting in the garage are going to look like ?

I have a -18 wheel with heavier tires running 10+ psi more than that guy is recommending and I have zero of these problems

 

[PaJeeper]

Concur with most others. I am running the 3.5” Clayton ,-18 offset Black Rhinos and Cooper STT. She will track straight and true down the highway at 80mph and not give so much as a shimmy. I’m running my tires at 30lbs in the front and 28 in the rear to get full contact. Also there should be a shop around your area that deals with a lot of lifted/ modified vehicles that’s who you want for your alignment, usually the old school mom and pop type place. Tire shops don’t care, the monkey doing the alignment doesn’t care how it drives, just what the computer tells him is in spec.

Edit: almost forgot, I am running the currectlync that Clayton sells with their kit but went with the fox 2.0 smooth bodies. As someone else said the stock tie rod is beefier than past offering from Jeep but still no comparison when you get the aftermarket stuff in your hands, and an adjustable track bar is a must have to get your axle centered. And if you have aluminum knuckles might as well figure on upgrading those when you do ball joints. Personally I don’t trust the aluminum with the extra leverage put on them with the hvy wheel/ tire combo and - offset.

 

[AZCooWhip]

Interesting indeed and no that is not normal nor should it be. 37s here on 3” lift and car drives smooth as can be. Slight poke on the wheels and tire size of 37x13.5x17. Cooper STT Pros running at ~30 lbs. So extra weight is not a factor in my case.

Only thing I can say that is different is your shocks. I have the Falcon adjustable SP2. Other than suspension …mine has stock components.

Id take it back to shop that did work and have them fine tooth it.

 

[Rubiwoo]

Same lift and tires. Mine did that too until I increased caster. I think I am at 6.5 now and it drives great. For kicks though, I would crawl under there and check that everything is torqued properly.

 

[Orange01z28]

There's poke on -18

I beat on this and it drives perfectly on the highway

It's not a Clayton 3.5, but its a 3.5

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