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CrazyCooter

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Ok, I'll concede there is a cost and spot ya 500 out of the 1500 difference

You're analogy may be valid for the top vs the bottom, metalcloak vs rough country, but you openly admit you supply additional components/expericance with the latter vs taco bell (you know you've rung the bell at 1am before)

I am not including shocks in the comparison, so please don't side track us on that...(even worse when it comes to diesel vs gas)
Its not about adjusting my budget, I can afford your restaurant, doesn't mean I want to pay taco bell the same because I can afford you.... unless I know why one lift is better than another I can't justify why I should pay more for it..... talk to me about the arms, explain why Clayton arms are better, why thier springs are better.... outside of the BBB complaints I hear good things about rustys...

People have a known tendency to defend what they chose spend money on, doesn't mean it was a good value, just a trait of human nature to justify choices we make... wagercthe top defenders of a specific componant actually use that componant, I'd bet that a metalcloak user isn't here saying how Clayton is better.... just human nature
This comes down to that you don't "value" the nicer quality product enough to pay the extra for it and that's OK!

I'm not loyal to a brand name.......I can sell any of them and with higher margins/cheaper shipping than Clayton since I'm on the opposite coast. I chose Clayton because I felt the overall package is better and my business was built on "better and best". If you could only see the email discussions Adam and I had prior to offering his product....you would know I'm not BS'ing you here.

I can afford to buy whatever suspension I want. If it was $20K and that much better for my use, I'd pay it......... If Shittybilt had the best system, I'd be selling and using it.

The only thing left here to fulfill you happiness is ceasing to shit on this vendor's thread and making that call to Rusty's?
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JRobes

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To be fair he did mention he'd be interested to know "how" the premium brand is better, and I'm the same in that if I know something is designed better (stronger, less maintenance, easier to adjust, better corrosion protection, etc), all that does come in to play in my purchase decision, especially if funds are tight and you're in search of bang for the buck. Once funds are less of an issue during the purchase, I think the country of fabrication and customer service becomes more important to a lot of people and may sway someone to spend a bit more.
 

THE SANDALORIAN

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Ok, I'll concede there is a cost and spot ya 500 out of the 1500 difference

You're analogy may be valid for the top vs the bottom, metalcloak vs rough country, but you openly admit you supply additional components/expericance with the latter vs taco bell (you know you've rung the bell at 1am before)

I am not including shocks in the comparison, so please don't side track us on that...(even worse when it comes to diesel vs gas)
Its not about adjusting my budget, I can afford your restaurant, doesn't mean I want to pay taco bell the same because I can afford you.... unless I know why one lift is better than another I can't justify why I should pay more for it..... talk to me about the arms, explain why Clayton arms are better, why thier springs are better.... outside of the BBB complaints I hear good things about rustys...

People have a known tendency to defend what they chose spend money on, doesn't mean it was a good value, just a trait of human nature to justify choices we make... wagercthe top defenders of a specific componant actually use that componant, I'd bet that a metalcloak user isn't here saying how Clayton is better.... just human nature
As a MetalCloak user as well (ran them on my 2017 JKU and just installed their kit on my TJ), I would say that the Clayton lift has some benefits to it. The MetalCloak arms being gold isn't everyone's cup of tea. I really like how the beefy square tubed Clayton front control arms allow for the brake lines to retain their mounting location similar to stock. I'm also a fan of their rear track bar bend that allows for a 37" tire to be mounted in the factory location without rubbing. These are a few of the things I really appreciate that Clayton put the engineering time into. My 2 copper.
 

Newlife

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I just wonder if instead of asking these questions on a forum what harm is there calling both Rusty’s and Clayton and just saying hey what thickness tubing are you using in your arms, what spring rate are your coils forged at? Etc etc? That’s the only way you’re going to know. Then make the decision is 500-1500.00 important to you? It does appear Rusty’s “house” brand shocks look awfully like a rebranded rancho shock but that’s just appearance. With Clayton you know you’re getting a more complete kit , and responsive customer service. Both companies want your money and both will make it just fine without your money so maybe the only way to get the answers you’re or more direct answers to your questions would be to contact the manufacturer directly.
 
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Clayton Off Road

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I appreciate you're reply, and your position.... we should clarify the use of the word cheaper, did you mean less expensive or lower quality?

Sure there are both out there.... pretty sure, as a fabricator, we are all getting the same imported steel most likely, you, metalcloak, Rustys, even me for my projects.... I'm currently comparing your 3300 kit to Rustys 1800 kit, I know where his springs come from, name brand maker, not sure about anyone else's because they house brand, I know rustys had diesel specific springs long before anyone else did, (let's not even discuss the lack of diesel shock valving) ... so where am I seeing an advantage of yours over theirs for an additional 1500.00, the price of a decent set of shocks? Is it customer service? Is so how often will your lift require me to contact you? Is it warranty? If so rustys has the same warranty, will I be replacing your components more often?

Just looking to be educated, 1500 is a chunk of change to ask for.....
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Hey Todd, I appreciate you trying to learn as much about our product as possible, but I don't want this thread to turn into us talking about or bashing any competitors because that's not what we're about. I can happily go over some of the things that we do differently, but if you would like to go into a deeper conversation please feel free to give us a call any time.

First I would like to point out that the kit you are referencing in price and the photo posted is our Premium kit, intended for those looking for the most hardcore version of our kit, and is priced higher due to the expensive Johnny Joints included. The picture you included of our product is also our CAD drawing, the real-world photos do a much better job of showing off the quality of our products, which I'll add in below.

Our Overland Plus kit which is by far our most popular system is priced at $2769 currently and uses maintenance-free, dual durometer bushings on both ends of each control arm. These bushings are one major upgrade you will see with our system over bushings found in other kits, as we do not use any sort of cheap poly or heim joints anywhere in our products. Also, all of our components are adjustable so that you can perfectly dial in geometry for your specific vehicle and build, even down to our sway bar end links.

If you are looking for tubing dimensions or a list of the materials used, our website features a "BOM" sheet listed under the instructions tab of each one of our products, and spring rates are all published on individual coil pages, so there are no secrets here. One of the things we pride ourselves in most is our attention to detail whether it's the thickness of our joint housings, our welds and overall craftsmanship, premium parts and materials, etc.

All of our control arms, track bars, and coil springs are finished in a zinc-rich, matte black powder coating which not only looks and feels very premium but helps our products to last even in the worst environments for years to come. On that note, while we do have a lifetime warranty on all of our control arms and trackbars, it's extremely rare that anybody ever has to use this warranty due to the stoutness of our products. We receive emails and get visits from customers all of the time looking to rebuild old Johnny Joints on 10-15-year-old kits that still look and function great to this day, not many after-market suspension companies can say that!

I did see that you also mentioned something about not having links to our reviews, if that is what you meant, but our website has links all over it that bring you directly to our Trust Pilot reviews which are 5 stars, we do not hide our Google rating which is a 4.9, and our Facebook rating is also a 4.9. We've been in business for over 20 years now and have always put customer service and product quality above everything else, and I think that is really reflected in our customer reviews across the board.

Jeep Gladiator Clayton Off Road JT Suspension Systems JT Overland Plus 3.5
 
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Teqsand

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The only thing left here to fulfill you happiness is ceasing to shit on this vendor's thread and making that call to Rusty's?
Started out as a conversation between myself and the vendor (thier thread not yours) it evolved as others, such as yourself, invited themselves into it. I've been nothing but courteous to Clayton, so please, if you wish to persinally berate me because either you disagree with me or you feel your opinion matters more, you're free to disengage...
 

CrazyCooter

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Started out as a conversation between myself and the vendor (thier thread not yours) it evolved as others, such as yourself, invited themselves into it. I've been nothing but courteous to Clayton, so please, if you wish to persinally berate me because either you disagree with me or you feel your opinion matters more, you're free to disengage...
I think you have misread my tone of voice.......I was simply trying to be informative and keep it classy. Berating you or down talking Rusty's was surely not my goal. Like I said before.......there are so many choices and none are really wrong if it makes you happy.

I am however a person who is very passionate about this lifestyle........vehicles of every type especially the dual sport/offroad variety. I have been called an equipment snob a time or two......I'll take that as a compliment?

This is however a public forum....Usually getting as much information as possible is the goal here. If you wanted a private conversation without the public's input there's always PM's, dial the phone number, or Email? I'm sure you could easily agree that the majority of posts on this thread are other than the vendor themselves?

If you end up with an Rancho, RC, Rusty's, MC, Clayton, etc...... lift, I'll still offer ya a beer if I see you trailside. :) No discrimination here......
 

Teqsand

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I think you have misread my tone of voice.......I was simply trying to be informative and keep it classy. Berating you or down talking Rusty's was surely not my goal. Like I said before.......there are so many choices and none are really wrong if it makes you happy.

I am however a person who is very passionate about this lifestyle........vehicles of every type especially the dual sport/offroad variety. I have been called an equipment snob a time or two......I'll take that as a compliment?

This is however a public forum....Usually getting as much information as possible is the goal here. If you wanted a private conversation without the public's input there's always PM's, dial the phone number, or Email? I'm sure you could easily agree that the majority of posts on this thread are other than the vendor themselves?

If you end up with an Rancho, RC, Rusty's, MC, Clayton, etc...... lift, I'll still offer ya a beer if I see you trailside. :) No discrimination here......
I have no problem with the public forum, I prefer it. I didnt want clayton talking down any others, just make a sales pitch and convince anyone reading this why they deservecthe extra $$... and There may be people afraid to ask questions or worse afraid to question the people vying for our dollars.
I'm an economics snob, I want the best value for my dollars, too many things out there that just because they are expensive doesn't make them better or even good for that matter. I have found many off brands that are better than name brands. (Walmart brand of slim Jim's is way better),
I'M not out there being, as you put it, an equip snob, if im getting a compensory discount, I'll put your decals on my vehicle, if not, then i dont need to brag what's in my rig and advertise for free.
My back yard is 1500sq miles of desert, I it's all trophy trucks here (odd I didn't want a mojave) the lift and crawl world is new but that's changing... I'm used to fabbing baja stuff for my offroad and corvette stuff for my track days
So we're good, there is a cold one here for ya....
 

TotallyReasonable

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Hey Todd, I appreciate you trying to learn as much about our product as possible, but I don't want this thread to turn into us talking about or bashing any competitors because that's not what we're about. I can happily go over some of the things that we do differently, but if you would like to go into a deeper conversation please feel free to give us a call any time.

First I would like to point out that the kit you are referencing in price and the photo posted is our Premium kit, intended for those looking for the most hardcore version of our kit, and is priced higher due to the expensive Johnny Joints included. The picture you included of our product is also our CAD drawing, the real-world photos do a much better job of showing off the quality of our products, which I'll add in below.

Our Overland Plus kit which is by far our most popular system is priced at $2769 currently and uses maintenance-free, dual durometer bushings on both ends of each control arm. These bushings are one major upgrade you will see with our system over bushings found in other kits, as we do not use any sort of cheap poly or heim joints anywhere in our products. Also, all of our components are adjustable so that you can perfectly dial in geometry for your specific vehicle and build, even down to our sway bar end links.

If you are looking for tubing dimensions or a list of the materials used, our website features a "BOM" sheet listed under the instructions tab of each one of our products, and spring rates are all published on individual coil pages, so there are no secrets here. One of the things we pride ourselves in most is our attention to detail whether it's the thickness of our joint housings, our welds and overall craftsmanship, premium parts and materials, etc.

All of our control arms, track bars, and coil springs are finished in a zinc-rich, matte black powder coating which not only looks and feels very premium but helps our products to last even in the worst environments for years to come. On that note, while we do have a lifetime warranty on all of our control arms and trackbars, it's extremely rare that anybody ever has to use this warranty due to the stoutness of our products. We receive emails and get visits from customers all of the time looking to rebuild old Johnny Joints on 10-15-year-old kits that still look and function great to this day, not many after-market suspension companies can say that!

I did see that you also mentioned something about not having links to our reviews, if that is what you meant, but our website has links all over it that bring you directly to our Trust Pilot reviews which are 5 stars, we do not hide our Google rating which is a 4.9, and our Facebook rating is also a 4.9. We've been in business for over 20 years now and have always put customer service and product quality above everything else, and I think that is really reflected in our customer reviews across the board.

Jeep Gladiator Clayton Off Road JT Suspension Systems JT Overland Plus 3.5
Saving this for when I have to explain to my wife why i'm spending all that money 🤣
 

PackMule

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OP is trying to justify cost of Clayton vs. competitors, and I'll add my experience.

- Customer Service - Clayton provided me with daily updates on diesel spring availability, and did immediate/same-day express shipping the day they got them to enable me to get installed for a Moab trip... during the height of COVID.. April this year. I haven't seen customer service at any vendor that compares... COVID or no.
- Build Quality - the shop that did my install does tons of other vendors, and is a Metal Cloak reseller. They do a ton of Metalcloak, and I'll admit they were on my short list. I went with Clayton because they were the only ones transparent about their spring rates, specifically on diesels. This was the first Clayton lift my shop did. The Tech was raving to me on the adjustability of the Clayton vs. Metalcloak.
- Build Quality 2 - I have previous experience on my JKs with Rubicon Express (my first Death Wobble vehicle), and AEV dualsport - quality built but I feel the custom tuning of the Bilsteins is too stiff... I crabwalk over washboards at 15mph. To that point, equally important to what lift you are choosing is what shocks and tuning you put with it. Shocks were virtually non-existent last spring when I was getting mine installed. I "lucked" onto finding some Fox 2.5 performance elites, and ended up very disappointed with the under-damping. I just got back from @CrazyCooter where he did a tune on my Fox's like he did on his, and the vehicle is a whole new beast.

OP, you were on the fence on whether to get a Mojave. I was too. Went with Ecodiesel 'cause I figured a suspension swap was much more feasible than an engine swap. I feel I now have a vehicle that has a better suspension than a Mojave (adjustable Fox's, as well as stouter Clayton everything), AND I have the diesel.

Did I spend coin? Yes, but not as much as others building dessert racers. Was it more than I need? Maybe. Am I satisfied? Every time I take this beast out and it takes me anywhere I have the guts to go, and takes all the gear I want to take.

Build your vehicle for your purposes.
 

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Installed the Clayton Ride Right 2.5" on my JT over the weekend. Install went very smoothly!

I went with the optional triple rate HD rear coils as well as retaining the 1" Teraflex spacer in the front and am super pleased with the results! For shocks I went with Bilstein 5100.

This lift is perfect for 35s and the triple rate option works well for those of us running bed campers such as the GFC that I have.

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FitfulGoat

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Beyond the thickness of the steel and beefy square tubing for the control arms the lift/suspension also handles fantastically. I did a shake down on the 2.5” overland plus (with falcon 3.3) on my JTR yesterday. 3+ hours of trails, mud, ice, snow and it was a completely new animal.

I get the intent of OP and am similar in approach. Took me close to 6 months before I finally decided the Clayton and Falcons were the right choice for me. (I’ve been shopping and researching tires now for the last month as I want to find the best tire for my needs at the best price)

This is personal opinion… but most control arms are going to last you the life of the vehicle. Won’t matter if it’s Rusty’s, Clayton, or another brand. It’s simple steel tubing and rubber joints (excluding higher end Johnny joints) despite the manufactures charging different prices. That additional cost is going to get you thicker steel or some engineering but in large part not contribute to any real benefits to the end user. This is why it’s your call… you will not find one manufacture to be leagues ahead in R&D or their products to be at a significantly higher margin (cost to quality)

I personally chose Clayton due to the feedback and reviews on here, consumer service, plus the desire to get a more complete kit out of the box. The premium was worth the cost to me personally and would have been within a couple hundred of other comparable options when I was shopping.
 

TotallyReasonable

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With a little one on the way I decided to hold off on the larger lift and 37s and stay lower with 35s. Decided to get the Clayton leveling springs for the front, and rockjock 1.5" rear spacer lift for the rear to keep everything nice and cheap.

I currently have a 2.5" spacer in the front with stock willys springs, but lost about 1.25" when I added a steel bumper and winch. My thinking is the 1.5" spring will get me to where I was before the winch/bumper combo, maybe a little higher, and the 1.5" spacer will make sure that I have a little rake still after.

In addition to the springs and spacers I have some new bilstein 5100s, bumpstop extensions and the extended mopar lower front control arms to install too. Next purchases will probably be a new clayton front track bar and maybe some of their control arms to dial everything in if needed. That should keep me happy with 35s, and my wallet happy with me, hah!
 

wchevron

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With a little one on the way I decided to hold off on the larger lift and 37s and stay lower with 35s. Decided to get the Clayton leveling springs for the front, and rockjock 1.5" rear spacer lift for the rear to keep everything nice and cheap.

I currently have a 2.5" spacer in the front with stock willys springs, but lost about 1.25" when I added a steel bumper and winch. My thinking is the 1.5" spring will get me to where I was before the winch/bumper combo, maybe a little higher, and the 1.5" spacer will make sure that I have a little rake still after.

In addition to the springs and spacers I have some new bilstein 5100s, bumpstop extensions and the extended mopar lower front control arms to install too. Next purchases will probably be a new clayton front track bar and maybe some of their control arms to dial everything in if needed. That should keep me happy with 35s, and my wallet happy with me, hah!
Post pics when you get this complete. I'm thinking of going this way myself. The Clayton 1.5" leveling kit comes with control arms and a track bar as a package.
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