Death Wobble, DW, Death Wobble, DW, Death Wobble, Shimmy, Wander, Drift, Bump Steer

[Lunentucker]

When folks say in this thread that they “make sure everything’s torqued correctly”, how exactly are you doing this on already-installed, single-use fasteners with torque+degrees listed under the specs? I can understand how to achieve the prescribed torque+degrees when installing a new part, but if a shimmy or DW develops X miles after the install, how would you confirm that nothing loosened? Doesn’t seem like you could throw a tq wrench on one of those fasteners, and you certainly can’t re-do the tq+deg.

You can usually find specs for both, initial plus degrees and full torque. The primary thing is to make sure that they're at least not so loose that they can be moved before reaching the initial torque value.

Most aftermarket parts suppliers will specify in traditional lb/ft only, so if you can't find a Jeep value for it, then find an aftermarket one that uses the same size fasteners and follow their guide.

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[Sting-Gray Neutral Pres.]

Nearly a year later, I can confidently say that installing the Mopar extended lower control arms has fixed my death wobble. What I can't determine is cause. That's the TL;DR, below are the details.

A rebalancing of the wheels fixed the issue enough for the rest of that winter. When I put my summer tires (stock Mojave take off Wildpeak ATs) on I went through EVERY joint check list in this thread and linked videos. Did all the prying with a second person, everything. Every joint on the front was tight and within spec. No issues over the summer on the the stock tires, even as they got up there in miles and were rotated.

Put the winter tires back on, immediate DW. Went back for a second rebalance, which temporarily made things better but the DW crept back. Put the LCAs on and voila, no more issues. I think my setup is critically important here, and may be worth considering for others.

My Truck:
a Sport diesel with Clayton "0.5 diesel" leveling springs for the bump stop issue other diesel folks will know about. Leveled the truck, so it definitely raised the front up and changed the geometry just a bit. In retrospect, I've always had a bit of bump shimmy after that spring change but I had attributed it to the 10% stiffer spring rate up front. No shock change mind you, and still on OEM Sport shocks 60k miles later. Never had a single instance of DW on the 245/75-17 SL-load stock sport tires or the 285/70-17 C-rated Mojave take offs.

The winter tires I got are GT Radial Ice Pro 265/70-17 115T mounted on the stock Sport rims. It's a cheaper winter tire that goes on a lot of SUVs and half-tons around here. My thinking is that some combination of a slight geometry change, coupled with that wider but still very light tire, was enough to push it over from bump shimmy to death wobble. Perhaps the heavier diesel or the older shocks are contributing factors. Or maybe even these cheaper tires aren't holding balance as well, and perfect balance was necessary to keep a marginal setup from exceeding a stability threshold. Dunno.

My conclusion is if you've given the truck even a slight lift, you have DW, and nothing in the front is loose/worn, get the extended LCAs.

Wiggling back and forth first. The pause in action in the video is me trying to move the drag link side to side.

 

[Mad Mac]

Is It possible that a winter tire
has a slipped belt or a run out problem.

 

[Sting-Gray Neutral Pres.]

Is It possible that a winter tire
has a slipped belt or a run out problem.

I would they would have noticed if the tire was out of round indicating runout when the tires were rebalanced twice? Any way to check for a slipped belt? No physical deformities noted on the outside of the tires.

 

[Mad Mac]

This video shows how runout is measured on a wheel rim.
The same technique can also be used on a tire.
The dial "snake" in this case is attached to the suspension
on the vehicle which can identify wheel hub and axle problems.
The runout dial can also be used with a free standing support
on the floor next to the raised wheel.

 

[g2020]

Before reading this reply, read the very first post in this thread. It's a great place to start on this topic, and you might be able to stop there after you've read it.

Here is a brief summary of my case and a summary of recent posts on death wobble and steering gear adjustment. The following solution for death wobble (TSB 08-003-21, plus replacing steering damper) worked in my case, but it will not work in every case.

Preparation:
- This solution is for a stock Gladiator with OEM-size tires and no mods
- Tell the service advisor that the steering "shakes" and "feels loose"
- Schedule an appointment (play by their rules, because this should be like an outpatient visit with no recovery period)
- Getting the dealer to do this specific fix can require some convincing
- Keep DIY fixes and other alternate solutions in reserve until a dealer has tried this fix
- I call this solution "TSB method + new steering damper"

Solution for Stock Gladiator with OEM-Size Tires and No Mods
TSB Method + New Steering Damper

Link to TSB: https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/attachments/tsb-08-003-21-pdf.420454/​

• Also see attached invoice (below) with reference to TSB 08-003-21
• This solution does not address all causes of death wobble, but the work completed in this invoice completely resolved death wobble in my vehicle in a single visit to my selling dealer
  • My vehicle is a 2020 Gladiator Sport with OEM-size tires and no mods
  • Vehicle purchased new in September 2019, death wobble started at 14K mi in October 2021, repair completed at 16K mi in January 2022, and currently at 47K mi in January 2025
• Tell the service advisor that the steering "shakes" and "feels loose"
• In addition to replacing steering gear (68507576AB) and updating EHPS software, steering damper (68251580AF) will need to be replaced
• Make sure that the dealer also inspects 1) other steering components (not just the damper) and 2) the suspension; the rest of the vehicle (beyond the worn out steering damper) can be affected by the incredibly violent shaking, or death wobble
  • Example: As mentioned in post #15 of this thread, also check the stabilizer

Thread Related to Steering Gear Adjustment

I am including this section on steering gear adjustment because before death wobble, my steering wheel had ZERO play/slack/slop, and after death wobble, it had some play (but not too much)​

• For steering gear adjustment, there is risk of damaging the steering gear and/or voiding the warranty
• Read the first three posts (including the disclaimer in post #3) in the following thread before you begin: "This is a [job] for knowledgeable people"

Thread: https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/...system-i-am-finally-happy-with-my-jeep.31671/​

Search Results for "dw" or "death wobble" from Two Separate Searches

ALL DISTINCT THREADS ON THIS FORUM CONTAINING dw OR death wobble (14 DISTINCT THREADS)​

FROM FIRST PAGE OF SEARCH RESULTS FOR EACH OF TWO SEARCHES​

IN REVERSE CHRONOLOGICAL ORDER BY MOST RECENT POST​

WITH RESULTS​

BETWEEN NOVEMBER 10, 2024 AND JANUARY 13, 2025 (FOR dw) OR​

BETWEEN DECEMBER 25, 2024 AND JANUARY 27, 2025 (FOR death wobble)​

​

The sixth thread is the thread that you are reading now​

1. https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/...ose-my-death-wobble.87416/page-2#post-1438016
2. https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/forum/threads/2022-gladiator-the-black-widow-build.89517/
3. https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/forum/threads/death-wobble.83909/page-2#post-1437267
4. https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/forum/threads/steering-wobble-mystery.75085/page-4#post-1435382
5. https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/...ing-recommendations.70933/page-3#post-1434316
6. https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/...er-drift-bump-steer.68302/page-9#post-1433659
7. https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/forum/threads/wasted-warranty.89058/page-3#post-1431687
8. https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/forum/threads/steering-issue-geometry.89001/#post-1430553
9. https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/...ning-no-politics.23705/page-2030#post-1428365
10. https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/forum/threads/ball-joints.88761/#post-1426551
11. https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/...an-honest-curiosity.88031/page-2#post-1417085
12. https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/...ct-center-steering-stabilizer-for-toad.87392/
13. https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/...-anyone-use-thise-especially-on-a-toad.87390/
14. https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/forum/threads/“death-wobble”.89975/#post-1445465

Invoice with Reference to TSB 08-003-21

 

[JohnHennesey]

For what it's worth... 2021 Gladiator sport, 100% stock, 3 yrs 1 mo, 29,500 miles. Never offroad, work from home, drive it like a grandma.

DW anywhere between 60 and 73 (I don't drive faster than that) when on the bumpy interstate on a slight curve with the gas either maintaining or accelerating. Could reproduce on command.

The underlying cause - air pressure was low - 30lbs, didn't realize it had gotten that low. Was unable to reproduce with 1.5 hours of driving on the same route, same lane, and same speed as previously able to recreate.

The fix - set appropriate tire pressure, plan to ensure damper is healthy from here on out. Solid front axle oscillations are a fact of life unfortunately.

 

[Zachanadandy]

Bump steer isn't exactly a problem, it's a result of your front axle changing vertical position under the jeep. The trackbar moves in an arc, so as the front moves up and down, your steering wheel moves too.

The closer to horizontal your track bar is, the less bumpsteer you get.

A slight bump steer isn't a problem. It was a problem after they went away from leaf springs and guys didn't know any better and just ran a big old drop pitman arm like they did on their leaf spring rigs. The track bar and drag link need to be as parallel as possible to saltier each other or you get massive bump steer as the axle and steering now move in different arcs. Not really an issue in the JL world unless you do something dumb like running a raised front track bar bracket but don't flip the drag link to the top of the knuckle. The trackbar being at an angle that matches the steering is better than it being flat if the steering isn't also flat. Obviously both being flat is ideal.

 

[Lunentucker]

For what it's worth... 2021 Gladiator sport, 100% stock, 3 yrs 1 mo, 29,500 miles. Never offroad, work from home, drive it like a grandma.

DW anywhere between 60 and 73 (I don't drive faster than that) when on the bumpy interstate on a slight curve with the gas either maintaining or accelerating. Could reproduce on command.

The underlying cause - air pressure was low - 30lbs, didn't realize it had gotten that low. Was unable to reproduce with 1.5 hours of driving on the same route, same lane, and same speed as previously able to recreate.

The fix - set appropriate tire pressure, plan to ensure damper is healthy from here on out. Solid front axle oscillations are a fact of life unfortunately.

The low pressure may have unmasked the true underlying issue.
It would still be a good idea to check over everything.
Jeep doesn't own a torque wrench.

 

[TTU03]

48k miles on my 2021 Willy’s. Zero issues up until this morning. Hit a bump at around 40 mph and bam DW. Very jarring moment and a first time for me. Last week Costco installed four new Firestone destination xt stock size. I also noticed my front drivers side shock is leaking. Shock is on order and about a week out for delivery. Currently having Costco recheck balance. New tires have been giving a very smooth ride so I don’t believe that’s an issue but it’s a place to start.

I have checked suspension bolts. Everything was good except lower front drivers side control arm needed about 3/4 of a turn to get to 190 ft/pounds.

Last summer I did install synergy two inch springs to handle weight of steel bumper/warn winch plate/warn winch. I added Mopar extended lower control arms, two inch synergy bump stops, extended Mopar end links. The springs did add some lift compared to stock(off the lot height) but due to added weight up front I really only added roughly a one inch lift from stock.

Running errands throughout today I have not been able to reproduce the DW. Maybe a fluke occurrence?

I don’t want to just throw money at things but I’m thinking the ball joints would be the largest expense to replace.

New track bar is not that expensive. Looks like the yeti track bar will work for 0-6.5 inches of lift.

Steering dampener would also not be a large expense but I would hate to buy it and possibly just mask a true issue.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Everything was good except lower front drivers side control arm needed about 3/4 of a turn to get to 190 ft/pounds.

That 190 number is low and not factory specs. The true torque is a torque plus degrees and I've calculated it out by testing to be over 200. The 190 keeps floating around from old documents and lift kits and so on. But I noted that when I did the real spec - torque plus degrees, I easily exceeded 190.

I've posted many times from true suspension engineers - even shocks, tires and other things - loose or worn parts, can lead to DW.

 

[TTU03]

That 190 number is low and not factory specs. The true torque is a torque plus degrees and I've calculated it out by testing to be over 200. The 190 keeps floating around from old documents and lift kits and so on. But I noted that when I did the real spec - torque plus degrees, I easily exceeded 190.

I've posted many times from true suspension engineers - even shocks, tires and other things - loose or worn parts, can lead to DW.

I will have to do some research on achieving the degrees with my current tools. It’s a little confounding to think a manufacturer would expect the average owner to keep up with some of these things. I would assume that even a complete stock vehicle would eventually have hardware loose over time with road vibration. Not to mention the stories about units coming from the factory without proper torque.

I have yet to recreate the DW. I have spent all day(my off day) running errands. Hitting every roadway bump and joint at various speeds. Costco was nice enough to rebalance the tires while I waited around lunch time. They did not find anything out of the ordinary. They did remove all weights and started from scratch.

I think I’m going to bite the bullet and get the ball joints replaced with something beefier then factory. My guess is the stock ball joints are either worn at 48k miles or getting close to needing replaced anyway.

 

[Wheelin98TJ]

I will have to do some research on achieving the degrees with my current tools. It’s a little confounding to think a manufacturer would expect the average owner to keep up with some of these things. I would assume that even a complete stock vehicle would eventually have hardware loose over time with road vibration. Not to mention the stories about units coming from the factory without proper torque.

I have yet to recreate the DW. I have spent all day(my off day) running errands. Hitting every roadway bump and joint at various speeds. Costco was nice enough to rebalance the tires while I waited around lunch time. They did not find anything out of the ordinary. They did remove all weights and started from scratch.

I think I’m going to bite the bullet and get the ball joints replaced with something beefier then factory. My guess is the stock ball joints are either worn at 48k miles or getting close to needing replaced anyway.

I’d definitely check them before replacing them on a guess.

 

[Lunentucker]

I will have to do some research on achieving the degrees with my current tools. It’s a little confounding to think a manufacturer would expect the average owner to keep up with some of these things.

It's vastly easier on tools and humanity to run up initial torque to something within the bounds of human capabilities (without herniation), and then finish with a longer breaker bar or an impact wrench.

Degrees are easy if you own an analog clock or watch.
360 is a circle
180 is a half circle
90 is a quarter circle (right angle)
45 is half a 90 (you house is full of them

 

[TTU03]

I’d definitely check them before replacing them on a guess.

What's your opinion on the life span of the factory ball joints? The great internet seems to come up with a general number of 60-70kish miles. Of course, individual usage makes a big difference. My usage so far has been 80% in town driving, 10% interstate driving, and 10% forest service road driving. I think my usage would not put a lot of wear on the joints. But at the same time I have some money set aside now and its hard to get out of my mind as a major failure point. It seems the stock parts are considered a weak point.

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