Excellent comparison of IFS vs SFA (Jeep on 37s vs FJ cruiser) from a Toyota fan.

[Rusty PW]

I'm going to ask the stupid question because I'm coming from IFS land but isn't disconnecting the sways for high speed runs on washboards asking for an off road death wobble?

Sway bar has nothing to do with death wobble.

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[Elff]

It just allows the front axle to articulate more to absorb the bumps more which makes it much more comfortable.

 

[BourbonRunner]

Sway bar has nothing to do with death wobble.

No, I get that. Maybe I should have said "high speed wobble" instead of Death Wobble.

 

[NachoRuby]

No, I get that. Maybe I should have said "high speed wobble" instead of Death Wobble.

No, it smooths out the ride majorly. I disconnect every time I leave pavement, even if I don't need the articulation. It's the only way I don't get shaken to death with the SFAs. On pavement, you want to be connected, but that's so you don't flip if you make a sharp emergency maneuver. Being connected adversely impacts comfort, but allows more predictable handling.

 

[bleda2002]

No, I get that. Maybe I should have said "high speed wobble" instead of Death Wobble.

What nachoruby said. The swaybar is for higher speed turns and emergency manuevers to keep your body kind of following the axle instead of flopping away from the turn. With it connected basically as the body tries to roll opposite the direction the axle is trying to take it, the swaybar fights that (its a torsion spring) and pushes against it redirecting the roll energy in to the outside tire.

With it disconnected the bouncing of the front axle doesnt affect the body as much since the main connections (control arms, track bar, coils, shocks etc) are designed to slowly absorb the axle energy or move with it independently of the body. On washboard this means that the SFA can bounce around and let the shocks and springs soak up the bumps way better.

 

[Rahkmalla]

What nachoruby said. The swaybar is for higher speed turns and emergency manuevers to keep your body kind of following the axle instead of flopping away from the turn. With it connected basically as the body tries to roll opposite the direction the axle is trying to take it, the swaybar fights that (its a torsion spring) and pushes against it redirecting the roll energy in to the outside tire.

With it disconnected the bouncing of the front axle doesnt affect the body as much since the main connections (control arms, track bar, coils, shocks etc) are designed to slowly absorb the axle energy or move with it independently of the body. On washboard this means that the SFA can bounce around and let the shocks and springs soak up the bumps way better.

Had my teeth rattled around in Wharton state park the other day. Thinking maybe it's time for a SBD on my mojave

 

[rubicon4wheeler]

I started out a Toyota and Suzuki guy. I was raised in the back seat of an FJ60 and then graduated to a Suzuki Samurai of my own once I got my driver's license. I've had a slew of IFS and solid axle Toyotas and Suzukis (essentially the same, just sized differently). In my own experience, I've come to much prefer solid axles which is why I went to a ZJ, a JK, and now a JT.

I find his review particularly honest. Unlike most YouTube "fluff" videos, he's not trying to sell anything (including himself.) His criticisms of the Jeep platform (imperfect steering, limited uptravel) are correct and mostly solvable with ease. I'm not sure why he found that his Applachian tour with a mixed group of Jeeps and Toyotas wound up with the Jeeps unable to keep up with the Toyotas, but not knowing the build level of the various vehicles, the drive prep, nor the skill level of the drivers, I'll just have to disagree, knowing that my Gladiator will eat a Toyota alive on unpaved roads like that.

My biggest criticisms of Toyotas nowadays are tied to an overall feeling of Toyota "phoning it in" with their current crop of 4x4s, and this isn't something new either. Toyota doesn't offer a heavy-duty dual-solid-axle truck or Land Cruiser in the U.S. anymore. Their current 4x4 platform dates back to 2005, and is just an evolution of their 1995 platform. Undersized IFS and steering components are just one concern; Jeep uses a particularly stout solid axle and huge steering components that they've continuously upgraded over the decades. The Toyota's car engine and automatic transmission are much more suited for a Crossover than a truck, and its power and torque numbers reflect that; Jeep has a variety of engines offered in the JL and JT, but the EcoDiesel was designed specifically to be a truck engine, and its power and torque numbers reflect that. Toyota has undersized front disc brakes and rear DRUM brakes (in 2022???) which really limit its ability to safely handle overlanding (should be called "overloading") and towing and bigger tires; Jeep puts huge 4-wheel disc brakes intended for loads, towing, and tires right from the factory.

I could go on and on, but the more you compare the Tacoma and Gladiator the more it looks like Toyota is on a cost-cutting mission. Good for them - the Tacoma makes them money hand-over-fist as the top-selling sub-fullsize truck on the market, so they have little incentive to improve the truck - it's "good enough" for most customers, and Toyota is banking on the reputation they built a few decades ago. Jeep, on the other hand, really puts a lot of effort into revising and upgrading their vehicles. Anyone who's followed a Tacoma on the road can see the chassis tremble and frame flex over bumps that don't phase the Gladiator. This is because of the wimpy little C-channel frame Toyota uses, versus the oversize fully-boxed frame under the Gladiator. When you compare the shocks under each vehicle, it's no wonder why the Jeep can effectively dampen the sprung and unsprung weight so much better than the Toyota. The Jeep's driveline components are all significantly bigger and stronger than those of the Tacoma's. Sure, the Gladiator weighs a LOT more than the Tacoma, and the Jeep is certainly not immune from its own cost-cutting measures, but for the big stuff, the stuff that counts most to offroad enthusiasts, the Gladiator is an order of magnitude better than the Tacoma.

I am particularly fond of Toyota, but I think they've mostly lost their way with their American-market 4x4s. Conversely, I think Jeep is going the right direction with the designs and refinement of their 4x4s. That is why Jeep won me over. I'm now on my 3rd one, and I am more a Jeep fan every day.

 

[FormerToyotaGuy]

Excellent video and a fair comparison. I have owned both the FJ and various Tacoma trucks and multiple Jeeps. One guys opinion but I have owned both brands pretty extensively. First, I loved my FJ and I am not into hard core rock climbing or driving washboards at 60 mph but I do use my trucks camping and hunting in back country. My 3rd gen Tacoma TRD off road was a good looking truck (exterior) I think the interior is lacking. The newer engine and 6 speed transmission was not right for the truck, it lacked low end power was always searching for gears. The truck was "loaded" with options and the interior was lack luster to say the least in fact the previous gen interior I thought looked better and the 4L engine in those and the FJ were much better engines. The FJ was made in Japan and felt better "built" than my 16' Tacoma.
Yes, IFS for street is more stable but my Gladiator handles fine, maybe because going back to days of owning Jeeps all the way back to a lifted CJ 5 which handled like a unicycle. Most modern trucks handle and ride light years better than even twenty years ago much less going even further back. Plus its a Jeep not a Cadillac. Personally, I think this is where Ford screwed up in the Bronco it should have had a straight axel and in my opinion a 5.0 or I should say a 302 option. I was temped but I'll stick with my Jeep

 

[graham5david]

I'll give my 2cents since I have owned 2 fj cruisers, 1 tacoma, 1 200 series land cruiser, 1 80 series land cruiser and 2 fj 40s.

My 2nd fj cruiser was very capable and beyond reliable with a 3 inch Toy tec lift. Almost 200k on it and zero issues. It pulled my boat well and got good mileage on 33s. But you can't go over 33 without a frame mount chop.

My 1st fj cruiser had a 6 inch RC lift on 35s. Still very capable offroad but horrible on road. Needed a regear. Both interiors looked new after many years. They are solid vehicles. Insanely reliable and I sold both for more than I paid for them. IFS is great for overlanding not Rock crawling.

The fj 40s are absolute tanks. Purely utilitarian. With a set of lockers they are unstoppable. They are now so sought after that prices are astronomical. Which is why I am keeping my green 72.

The 80 series from 93 to 97 are hands down the best 4x4 ever built in my opinion. Crawl under one and compare the size of everything compared to a jeep and you will see why they are nearly unbreakable. The engines are good for 300k with the only issue being a head gasket around that mileage. Most people replace it as pm then are good for another 300k. The 1fzfe is a great engine. The 80 has about a 6 inch shorter wheel bade than a 4 door jk and with lockers will walk uo anything a jk will. Coil suspension all the way around. Solid front axle. But the top doesn't come off.

The 200 series with a one Inch lift and good tires will climb anything without lockers. The multi terrain select works very well. It will tow 9k but gets about 10mpg in town and 13 on the hwy. But that 5.7 will run forever.

The 3rd gen taco is a great truck for daily commute and trails. The engine and Trans set up is a major failure from Toyota. It's dependable but always searching for the right gear. It will tow well but you can't run 33s without a re gear.

The gladiator to me is the best of all worlds. Jeep is much more dependable now. Not Toyota dependable yet but getting closer. Much more comfortable than the taco. Especially in tbe rear seat. The gladiator tows well (mine is a diesel). It feels like the 80 series with solid front axle. It will go anywhere you point it. Gets great mileage. The top comes off. It's my favorite of them all so far.

Toyota builds what 90% of people need. Jeep builds what you want. If a die hard Toyota nut like me has switched to jeep then it speaks volumes for jeep design and reliability

 

[onewhippedpuppy]

That was an excellent and surprisingly factual review for YouTube.

I love Toyota products and am the former owner of an FJ80 and 4th gen 4Runner. I think in the 1990s and early 2000s that Toyota was building the highest quality cars on earth. But from that point forward, particularly in their trucks and body on frame SUVs, I think they’ve gotten lazy and been content to sell based on their reputation as opposed to actual content. I’ve lived with a modern Taco and 4Runner as a long term rental and found them both to be mediocre at best across the board. As a fan of the brand I hope they invest in making the product competitive because the competition has caught up with and surpassed them, in some cases years ago.

 

[Blade1668]

Great non biased review.
I jumped on the Jeep "bandwagon" in 1991. Only Jeep had solid axles in less than 3/4 ton sized vehicle. I wanted the longest lasting drivetrain. Solid axles has less to break or wear out. (IMHO) Less moving parts. But I'm jaded.
Funny how many people have "told me" that Jeep(s) will leave me stranded and they are not reliable. Now what is funny my 05 LJ has over 254000 miles on it.

Now if I was looking for something that is a "road warrior" commute vehicle Toyota might be something I would think about. Lifestyle and needs are critical factors on vehicle choices.

 

[InvertedAerialX]

Seems like a lot better comparison then the TFL or "ToyotaFanLovers" did in the video below. Quite humourous! Comparing a 2022 4Runner to a 1991 Ford Explorer. Yes, I know they are ONLY comparing the 4wd system, but honestly...you couldn't find a better comparison? Or maybe get a few vehicles to show the different systems? and the benefits and drawbacks of each?

 

[Elff]

I hate TFL.
Best thing people could do is not click or link anything they do, so they go away.

 

[rubicon4wheeler]

I hate TFL.
Best thing people could do is not click or link anything they do, so they go away.

I've always thought they're a bunch of doofuses. Why are they so popular???

 

[Elff]

Probably the same reason people watch nascar
Waiting for the crash

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