Fire Fire! My Gladiator burned down

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[Zybane]

I dunno about all that. Hollywood of course dramatizes it, but as a former firefighter/fire science major and current worker in the fuels logistics industry, they can and do occasionally explode(often a BLEVE). I was taking a diesel receipt from a tanker a few months ago and the driver was showing me pictures from his truck hauling gasoline that had a wheel bearing catch fire eventually taking the whole tank of 10,000 gallons of gasoline with it.

This one looks like it probably had a whole tank of gas that dropped out suddenly and quickly during the fire:

And this one they said airbags, but my money is on the batteries going BLEVE.

Of course, catastrophic ones like that first one are pretty rare, and in OPs case, the fire wasn't near the fuel tank, so while a battery exploding is possible, turning into a fuel air bomb wasn't too likely, lol.

None are those are explosions, just rapid burning/ignition of fuel. At the very most just a tiny bit of fuel fume ignition in the non-liquid fuel portion of the fuel tank, then the liquid fuel burns.

ex·plo·sion
noun
a violent and destructive shattering or blowing apart of something, as is caused by a bomb.

An explosion involves over-pressurization/shock wave, sending shrapnel flying out in all directions from the containing vessel or vehicle. Burning cars do not do that.

Car gas tanks are not pressured containers. They have seals that are designed to prevent pressure build up by releasing any excess pressure that may build up.

Since they are mostly made of plastic these days, the tank melts when it catches fire. The moment the tank melts the liquid escapes and burns. The non-plastic tanks are of metals not thick enough to create or hold pressure. Under pressure, they deform and crack easily. The liquid inside the tank can only boil but does not explode.

Now things that can make small "explosions" on the vehicle are like burning compressed air tanks, propane tanks, burning tires etc.

But ya, of course 10,000 gallons of gasoline in a tanker is going to make one massive fireball.

 

[Mister Lamb]

Two days ago I had two users upset on another thread when I stated how this ESS garbage is quite possibly the worst 'feature' of the truck. This horseshit two battery system has got to go. Imagine defending a system that features a puny AUX battery that's a pain to get to and renders your entire truck useless when it dies. Or worse, sets your car on fire....

And before ESS defenders start to claim the cause of the fire is unknown:

OP WAS IN THE SHOP BECAUSE HE NEEDED THIS B.S. ESS SERVICED. HE WOULD STILL HAVE A TRUCK IF IT DIDN'T EXIST.

Make ESS an option for the people that want to save 2-3 MPG.

 

[TwelveGaugeSage]

None are those are explosions, just rapid burning/ignition of fuel. At the very most just a tiny bit of fuel fume ignition in the non-liquid fuel portion of the fuel tank, then the liquid fuel burns.

ex·plo·sion
noun
a violent and destructive shattering or blowing apart of something, as is caused by a bomb.

An explosion involves over-pressurization/shock wave, sending shrapnel flying out in all directions from the containing vessel or vehicle. Burning cars do not do that.

I tend to prefer: a violent expansion in which energy is transmitted outward as a shock wave.

But semantics aside, that first one is pretty much what you see in the movies, which is what we are talking about, lol.

Two days ago I had two users upset on another thread when I stated how this ESS garbage is quite possibly the worst 'feature' of the truck. This horseshit two battery system has got to go. Imagine defending a system that features a puny AUX battery that's a pain to get to and renders your entire truck useless when it dies. Or worse, sets your car on fire....

And before ESS defenders start to claim the cause of the fire is unknown:

OP WAS IN THE SHOP BECAUSE HE NEEDED THIS B.S. ESS SERVICED. HE WOULD STILL HAVE A TRUCK IF IT DIDN'T EXIST.

Make ESS an option for the people that want to save 2-3 MPG.

I like it, but I can certainly understand people NOT liking it, especially in automatics. I'd be fine with it being an option. The dual battery thing does create a lot of unnecessary problems though it would seem.

 

[Nitroexpress]

I am pretty sure I know what happened. The batteries are separated by a run relay. You start is and drive away and this relay keeps the batteries separated, when you come to a stop the relay will remain open, until you take off again. Then the relay closes and allows the alternator to charge both batteries. My guess is the bottom battery was hooked up backwards and when the relay closed it went nuclear. If he was 2 to 5 minutes from a stop and go, that would be a pretty strong correlation. I wondered about this situation when I had mine all apart. Easy to do and catastrophic.

I'm not positive, but I believe it would not be possible to hook up the small battery in reverse. I don't think the cables would reach.

However, when I replaced both batteries after experiencing all the 'classic' signs of a failure - ESS Not ready and Auxiliary switches not working, I was shocked at the procedure to accomplish the task. I can't believe that an auto manufacturer would design something so that you have to disconnect EVERY electrical connection at the power distribution block in order to access the lower battery. It seems ripe for problems or failure. I don't care if it's a Master Technician, an 18 year old auto parts store clerk or a shade tree DIY'er, I would not want anybody touching, moving or disconnecting the very heart of the electric system. I know there is little space available under the hood, but it all seemed a bit much for a "simple" battery swap.

OP - Sorry for the horrible experience. I'm not surprised the dealership is not offering you much for apologies, their lawyers don't want them to say a single word. As much as I detest EVERY dealer in which I have experience, I doubt it's worth your time or sanity to go "scorched earth" or "sue the pants off" as some suggest.

I hope you are quickly made whole with a newer, better, badder Jeep (or whatever you choose)!!

 

[Mister Lamb]

I like it, but I can certainly understand people NOT liking it, especially in automatics. I'd be fine with it being an option. The dual battery thing does create a lot of unnecessary problems though it would seem.

It's intended use on paper is great. Less idling for the environment's sake and better gas mileage. It's the implementation that's awful.

This battery kit by Genesis Offroad is a good solution that'll alleviate the bulk of problems with the current system.

 

[obrianmcc]

I deleted my AUX battery completely ... disconnected and isolated the grounds, ran the positive to the main battery. System has worked fine ever since.

The circumstances around this tragedy are odd ... what could they have done to create a vehicle fire with simple battery replacement? ... did one of the batteries somehow fail? ... were they a little to rough with their handling of the PCM? ... if it was the PCM I would think the fuses and relays would have stepped in .... did they incorrectly reattach accessory wires?

I always worry about who is assigned the actual work ... in this case did a tech diagnose the battery issue and then shift the truck over to "a lessor qualified service employee" to complete the replacement?

I find it hard to believe the ESS system caused this ... it had to have been human error. I bet we'll never know.

 

[Akgladiator]

sorry about your ride. I am starting to question when a class action law suit will take place. I have seen a lot of JL and JT burnt down in auctions. And seen like the fire came from the same place the two batteries sat.

 

[MPMB]

None are those are explosions, just rapid burning/ignition of fuel. At the very most just a tiny bit of fuel fume ignition in the non-liquid fuel portion of the fuel tank, then the liquid fuel burns.
<snip>
Now things that can make small "explosions" on the vehicle are like burning compressed air tanks, propane tanks, burning tires etc.

We were bored once at the race shop and we found a dead bat. We decided to cremate it, so we took a coffee ground container and filled it 1/2 full of gas. Threw the bat in and lit it on fire. The fire burned. Slowly. The bat was at the bottom, totally untouched by fire. We had to fish it out and hang it on the side to burn.

That's when I learned Hollywood was so fake.

A few years later we started launching tennis balls out of a 1/4" steel tube fueled by a cutting torch gas mixture.

 

[JDChris]

...

Make ESS an option for the people that want to save 2-3 MPG.

I could be wrong, but I'm fairly certain that ESS is not designed to improve fuel economy. I've seen reports that it has little to no impact on fuel economy. What it was designed for is to lessen emissions. The engine doesn't run at idle so it's not polluting.

Having said that, Jeep's implementation leaves a lot to be desired.

 

[ecidiego]

I can't believe that an auto manufacturer would design something so that you have to disconnect EVERY electrical connection at the power distribution block in order to access the lower battery. It

You don't... you can pull the fender and it's right there.

https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/fo...ent-the-easy-way-pull-the-fender-flare.56807/

 

[DAVECS1]

I'm not positive, but I believe it would not be possible to hook up the small battery in reverse. I don't think the cables would reach.

However, when I replaced both batteries after experiencing all the 'classic' signs of a failure - ESS Not ready and Auxiliary switches not working, I was shocked at the procedure to accomplish the task. I can't believe that an auto manufacturer would design something so that you have to disconnect EVERY electrical connection at the power distribution block in order to access the lower battery. It seems ripe for problems or failure. I don't care if it's a Master Technician, an 18 year old auto parts store clerk or a shade tree DIY'er, I would not want anybody touching, moving or disconnecting the very heart of the electric system. I know there is little space available under the hood, but it all seemed a bit much for a "simple" battery swap.

OP - Sorry for the horrible experience. I'm not surprised the dealership is not offering you much for apologies, their lawyers don't want them to say a single word. As much as I detest EVERY dealer in which I have experience, I doubt it's worth your time or sanity to go "scorched earth" or "sue the pants off" as some suggest.

I hope you are quickly made whole with a newer, better, badder Jeep (or whatever you choose)!!

You can spin the battery 180 when you drop it back in and the cables fit pretty good. I almost did it when I was replacing my cams.

 

[ecidiego]

BTW, removing the PDC wasn't really a big deal as long as you have good attention to detail. I did it when running Aux wires through the firewall nipple. 0 problems.

 

[ecidiego]

I have a feeling thats what happened. That would put the batteries in series and send 24v to the drive accessories but still send 12v to everything else like the radio. After cycling a few times it would be melt down!

Easy to prove. Before anyone takes the truck document that.

 

[Mister Lamb]

I could be wrong, but I'm fairly certain that ESS is not designed to improve fuel economy. I've seen reports that it has little to no impact on fuel economy. What it was designed for is to lessen emissions. The engine doesn't run at idle so it's not polluting.

Having said that, Jeep's implementation leaves a lot to be desired.

@ShadowsPapa shared some studies that proved 2-3 MPG could be gained through the use of the ESS. Either way, not worth it in it's current state.

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