First oil change, Should I be worried?

[Stangallmotor]

Hey fellas, Just completed first oil change on a 22 JTR. 2600 miles, I added 5 quarts of Mobil 1 0-20W & Mobil 1 oil filter.

When removing the factory oil filter I saw rather large metal shavings inside. The oil was black but I didn't see any metal shavings on drain plug or anything standing out in the oil pan.

Is this normal for a new 3.6? First jeep last few cars were Toyotas & I never saw anything like this but the filters were different so maybe it was inside, IDK.

Whatcha guys think?

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[LostWoods]

At the risk of this thread needing popcorn, it's not something to worry about on a factory fill. It's normal to have burrs and other things from the machining process which is why it's not a bad idea to change your oil at 500 or 1,000 miles instead of the recommended 5k. The filter did it's job and caught the particles as intended.

You've changed it now so I'd do it again at 5k and reassess. Don't buy into the oil analysis crap that will probably get recommended, you will need at least 3 of them at similar mileage intervals to get any sort of baseline to get useful data. Just change your oil and keep an eye out for large particles.

 

[Gren71]

@LostWoods hit the nail on the head.

IF you’re stressing about it you could always pull the filter and check periodically for shavings at 2-3k just for piece of mind.

 

[Hootbro]

Yeah, that is not unexpected on a factory fill and filter. It did it's job.

 

[Rahkmalla]

Don't buy into the oil analysis crap that will probably get recommended

Blackstone is never a bad idea... except on your first oil change. I changed my oil at 1k, will change again at 5k, then every 5k after that. Won't send my first sample into Blackstone until 10k, then every 20k after that.

 

[JeepOfTheseus]

If the filter didn’t have any burrs, I’d worry where they ended up.

 

[LostWoods]

Blackstone is never a bad idea... except on your first oil change. I changed my oil at 1k, will change again at 5k, then every 5k after that. Won't send my first sample into Blackstone until 10k, then every 20k after that.

Too many read the numbers and freak out that OMG THEY'RE OVER THE NUMBER THEY SAID THEY SHOULD BE!!

They don't tell you something is wrong, they tell you something is going wrong. If you have done the analysis every oil change for the past three years and suddenly see elevated copper the next two, something is clearly going wrong. I hate them as a company because they do not emphasize this, they act like their all-knowing report will tell you something catastrophic is wrong.

 

[Phred]

Time for a new engine!



Just kidding, you’re fine.

 

[Hootbro]

I hate them as a company because they do not emphasize this, they act like their all-knowing report will tell you something catastrophic is wrong.

That is an interesting perception of Blackstone Labs. I have used them for almost 20 years and probably have 30+ oil analysis by them for the various vehicles I have owned.

Even with an initial factory fill oil analysis, they have always error on the side of caution in their analysis to make sure I knew that elevated wear numbers were to be expected. Even on my then owned 14 Wrangler, on the third oil analysis there was elevated iron wear but it was not all gloom and doom and just advice to check again in 5K to see if it trends.

At the end of the day, any oil analysis is just a snap shot in time of where an engine is at. Up to the end user to determine what to do with that data if anything. Like any tool, it is only good if you know how to use it.

 

[LostWoods]

At the end of the day, any oil analysis is just a snap shot in time of where an engine is at. Up to the end user to determine what to do with that data if anything. Like any tool, it is only good if you know how to use it.

And therein lies the issue. Companies like Blackstone are more geared towards industry where people have access to engineering resources and know what to expect. Even at lower levels like amateur race teams, they know what they're looking for and the Blackstone "analysis" isn't relevant since they are doing their own.

The problem is the customer is always an idiot.

The problem I've had with Blackstone is they don't provide guidance to customers how to use their data. They provide thresholds and all that does is create threads like the recent glycol conspiracy and a post I saw a few weeks ago where someone pointed out that 2ppm of some contaminant was bad beacuase you don't want to see more than 1ppm per the Blackstone report.

People like you who do multiple tests over time are using it properly but they don't share that because it's a lot easier to sell a $60 test to a few hundred thousand people than to convince those people they need 2-3 of these tests on an annual basis to have any meaningful data.

Oh, and just to add, I'll fully acknowledge that my hatred for Blackstone is rooted in a decade in the industry and every old fart who thought he knew better than my 20-something year old ass because Blackstone told him elevated numbers meant his new Jeep was going to blow up at any moment. As you said, information without understanding is worthless and the percentille where people understand what they're seeing is waaaaay to the right on the curve.

 

[sharpsicle]

And therein lies the issue. Companies like Blackstone are more geared towards industry where people have access to engineering resources and know what to expect. Even at lower levels like amateur race teams, they know what they're looking for and the Blackstone "analysis" isn't relevant since they are doing their own.

The problem is the customer is always an idiot.

The problem I've had with Blackstone is they don't provide guidance to customers how to use their data. They provide thresholds and all that does is create threads like the recent glycol conspiracy and a post I saw a few weeks ago where someone pointed out that 2ppm of some contaminant was bad beacuase you don't want to see more than 1ppm per the Blackstone report.

People like you who do multiple tests over time are using it properly but they don't share that because it's a lot easier to sell a $60 test to a few hundred thousand people than to convince those people they need 2-3 of these tests on an annual basis to have any meaningful data.

Wait, I don't follow here. You said that the analysis is only relevant to those who know what they're reading, but then that if you know how to read it you're going to do the analysis yourself? I used to be on an amateur race team and I can tell you, we nor any of the teams we raced with did our own analysis. We all sent them out to labs like Blackstone. The oil analysis they returned was extremely valuable.

To that end, why does Blackstone need to provide specific guidance on how to use the data they give you? Their service is only to provide data. Nothing more. To expect more from them is just silly. Just like anything else you buy, it's on you to know the proper use and application. If a value is outside an expected range, you as an intelligent being evaluate it. Maybe it needs to be addressed, maybe not. Blackstone isn't going to come down to you and give you a course on how to read an oil analysis, they're only there to provide the data and give generic observations. They don't know the ins and outs of your specific situation. If you want more in-depth recommendations than that, you gotta go pay someone else to give you more.

I think you've created a boogey-man where one doesn't exist. Blackstone is not a waste or a sham or anything like that. It's good quality data that's made available to those who want it. They're not geared towards any specific industry, they are simply available to those who want it. It's not like they change the results, it's an analysis lab. That's pretty simple.

What you're saying is almost like saying hospitals that send your bloodwork out for analysis are getting bad information because the lab doesn't do the diagnosis for them. Of course they don't. That's the nature of it. They provide you with the data so you can make more informed decisions.

And yes, that data can definitely give you insights into your engine's health.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

And therein lies the issue. Companies like Blackstone are more geared towards industry where people have access to engineering resources and know what to expect. Even at lower levels like amateur race teams, they know what they're looking for and the Blackstone "analysis" isn't relevant since they are doing their own.

The problem is the customer is always an idiot.

The problem I've had with Blackstone is they don't provide guidance to customers how to use their data. They provide thresholds and all that does is create threads like the recent glycol conspiracy and a post I saw a few weeks ago where someone pointed out that 2ppm of some contaminant was bad beacuase you don't want to see more than 1ppm per the Blackstone report.

People like you who do multiple tests over time are using it properly but they don't share that because it's a lot easier to sell a $60 test to a few hundred thousand people than to convince those people they need 2-3 of these tests on an annual basis to have any meaningful data.

Oh, and just to add, I'll fully acknowledge that my hatred for Blackstone is rooted in a decade in the industry and every old fart who thought he knew better than my 20-something year old ass because Blackstone told him elevated numbers meant his new Jeep was going to blow up at any moment. As you said, information without understanding is worthless and the percentille where people understand what they're seeing is waaaaay to the right on the curve.

The problem is very much like blood work, human health. You need a baseline established. Every engine is going to be different and different oils have different additives and so on.
What's normal for one is not as normal for another.
This is an age-old issue with engines - and oil.
Imagine the differences in oil sample results between the guy with the Ford truck engine that was disassembled for valve work at a bit over 100,000 miles and the factory cylinder hone marks were still very evident - and compare that to the guy with the same engine, similar miles, and his engine has about .002" ridge at the top and no hone marks visible. One would show elevated numbers compared to the other, yet both are considered normal in the grand scheme of things.

The problem is the self-diagnosis based on numbers people don't understand - and some of the comments I've seen in other lab results.
Lab results are great - but like any statistic or number, it's how they may be used or interpreted that gets people into trouble.

 

[Hootbro]

And therein lies the issue. Companies like Blackstone are more geared towards industry where people have access to engineering resources and know what to expect. Even at lower levels like amateur race teams, they know what they're looking for and the Blackstone "analysis" isn't relevant since they are doing their own.

The problem is the customer is always an idiot.

The problem I've had with Blackstone is they don't provide guidance to customers how to use their data. They provide thresholds and all that does is create threads like the recent glycol conspiracy and a post I saw a few weeks ago where someone pointed out that 2ppm of some contaminant was bad beacuase you don't want to see more than 1ppm per the Blackstone report.

People like you who do multiple tests over time are using it properly but they don't share that because it's a lot easier to sell a $60 test to a few hundred thousand people than to convince those people they need 2-3 of these tests on an annual basis to have any meaningful data.

Oh, and just to add, I'll fully acknowledge that my hatred for Blackstone is rooted in a decade in the industry and every old fart who thought he knew better than my 20-something year old ass because Blackstone told him elevated numbers meant his new Jeep was going to blow up at any moment. As you said, information without understanding is worthless and the percentille where people understand what they're seeing is waaaaay to the right on the curve.

Yeah, I am kind of with @sharpsicle in that you have created a boogeyman that does not exist. You are entitled to any opinion you want but I just do not see where Blackstone up-sells anything or pushes me to do more testing. They only test what I send and ask of them and nothing more and I do not hear a peep from them otherwise. Of all the things I blow my money on, a $30 a pop oil analysis is not even a factor in my thinking whether to do it or not.

I have come across plenty of people that do not see the value of oil analysis and that is fine but you are probably the first person I have come across that has a personal grudge against testing and specifically Blackstone Labs. I would be interest to see a copy of the specific test results from Blackstone Labs that made you feel this way.

 

[Lunentucker]

And therein lies the issue. Companies like Blackstone are more geared towards industry where people have access to engineering resources and know what to expect. Even at lower levels like amateur race teams, they know what they're looking for and the Blackstone "analysis" isn't relevant since they are doing their own.

The problem is the customer is always an idiot.

The problem I've had with Blackstone is they don't provide guidance to customers how to use their data. They provide thresholds and all that does is create threads like the recent glycol conspiracy and a post I saw a few weeks ago where someone pointed out that 2ppm of some contaminant was bad beacuase you don't want to see more than 1ppm per the Blackstone report.

People like you who do multiple tests over time are using it properly but they don't share that because it's a lot easier to sell a $60 test to a few hundred thousand people than to convince those people they need 2-3 of these tests on an annual basis to have any meaningful data.

Oh, and just to add, I'll fully acknowledge that my hatred for Blackstone is rooted in a decade in the industry and every old fart who thought he knew better than my 20-something year old ass because Blackstone told him elevated numbers meant his new Jeep was going to blow up at any moment. As you said, information without understanding is worthless and the percentille where people understand what they're seeing is waaaaay to the right on the curve.

Blackstone provides detailed information and they also give you a plain English summary of exactly what they think your numbers mean.
They're not trying to sell you anything based on the report.
Hating something you don't understand or don't want to understand is an unhealthy way to live.

 

[Joe Gladiator]

on the other hand the filter did its job...

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