Going Digital on Toe Settings

[CrazyCooter]

Right and I've also seen people who took a car that was mechanically sound (no bad bearings, ball joints, tires, wheels, etc.) and align a car, then park it. Another tech pulls that car in for an alignment on the same rack with the same equipment, sets it back up and says that its close but needs to be adjusted and get different results because a different person with a different experience level. It's all about understanding what you are working with and what you can expect.

Now if that tool can only measure in 1/16" increments well that is a pretty substantial limitation. If it is only accurate to 1/16" of an inch but can obtain repeatable measurements at a smaller increment than 1/16" then I really like it because I don't care what the measurement is. I care what the difference is front and back. Accuracy and precision, I care about precision here, not accuracy.

I can agree about the measurement front to back, but what you are measurement is not accurate IF the wheel, rotor, and/or bearing hub have runout especially IF they are clocked in a manner where those tolerances are adding up?

You might be better off just not touching the toe setting as you might be making it worse without knowing? If you didn't bend anything, why touch it in the first place?

Can you trust a rifle scope that not been sighted in yet? Nope! The info it's giving you is probably flawed?

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[ErrngeElise]

I can agree about the measurement front to back, but what you are measurment is not accurate IF the wheel, rotor, and/or bearing hub have runout especially IF they are clocked in a manner where those tolerances are adding up?

You might be better off just not touching the toe setting as you might be making it worse without knowing? If you didn't bend anything, why touch it in the first place?

Agreed, I wouldn't suggest using this to make a change based only on this test or even using this as the tool to determine how much you need to adjust it. I see it more as a gauge to see if it's time to do a real alignment or in response to a trail fix to get it good enough to drive highway home, etc.
Also if I were to use this at home, it is probably in response to changing some hardware and knowing an alignment is necessary anyway so it would be done with proper straight edges bolted to the hubs (to increase level or precision and your whole point), basically using this to replace the tape measures because using two tape measures by yourself sucks. And if I go through all that I've probably convinced myself the alignment is good anyway.
So in summary I think its a good idea to use as a rough gauge OR if you are going to use it to make a change yes either you set up for a proper alignment at home or you use this to get it good enough to drive down to a shop because I think its at least good enough to get you close.

 

[jav_eee]

Ya, you aren't envisioning it all the way through.

I'm seriously thinking about making a video for you guys. It's so simple, but hard to visualize without seeing it.

I’m envisioning it all the way. I’ve used one to do the same thing on other vehicles, though just to measure for fun, not actually align them.

my point is that the degree of toe spec’d is so small that 1/16” of error, TO ME, is too much. Like I said, if the error is 1/16” wider for the front and 1/16” closer for the back, no matter how many times you repeat that measurement, you’re now how many degrees toed out? Im bad at math :p

 

[Badunit]

Difference of 1/16" from front to back measurement on a 17" rim is roughly 0.2 degrees. That's a lot when the spec is 0.20±0.20 degrees

atan((1/32)/8.5) = 0.21 degrees

 

[Lunentucker]

Difference of 1/16" from front to back measurement on a 17" rim is roughly 0.2 degrees. That's a lot when the spec is 0.20±0.20 degrees

atan((1/32)/8.5) = 0.21 degrees

We drove through the hardest and longest downpour I've ever experienced yesterday, and the JT, with its +7 caster and toe out plowed through standing water that had other cars fishtailing. Very very happy with how it did.
Prior to getting things right, that would've been a harrowing experience.

 

[Badunit]

Toed out? That is unusual, but I guess it must be working for you with 7 degrees of caster.

 

[Lunentucker]

https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/forum/threads/toe-in-vs-toe-out.66290/

 

[Vtur]

Sorry for bringing up an old thread but i must say this laser method is clever and works really well.
Measured from the tires and thought i had it set to zero toe-in when installed my new tie rod. I also spun the tires and measured at multiple spots. But, the laser says otherwise and it was 1/4" toe-in. The slight bump steer is gone, truck drives great again.

 

[Lunentucker]

Sorry for bringing up an old thread but i must say this laser method is clever and works really well.
Measured from the tires and thought i had it set to zero toe-in when installed my new tie rod. I also spun the tires and measured at multiple spots. But, the laser says otherwise and it was 1/4" toe-in. The slight bump steer is gone, truck drives great again.

Glad it helped! It's a good way to do it with no extra hands.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Glad it helped! It's a good way to do it with no extra hands.

And here I thought, based on your art work, that you did have extra hands.

 

[Maximus Gladius]

I wanted to see how your digital technique worked but when I tap the play arrow, nothing happens!

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I know many of you hate me for my uncommon methods and lack of compliance for the sloppy way of doing things, but........

First thing that stands out in my mind after wondering what the actual accuracy of that measuring tool is would be looking at the pics in this thread Is that the measurements are not being taken at the axle's centerline height? Looks like either the tie rod or control arms keep this centerline measurement from happening?

A toe measurement in inches at a 17" diameter is far from the toe measurement at 32"?

If it's not being measured at a constant location, the measurements are useless.

This is why degrees are often used. Tire and wheel sizes matter.
How far out from the exact center of the wheel is the measurement taken?
Taken below centerline a bit is pretty much the same as measuring toe on a smaller diameter wheel.
He could again use some math and make two lines, and easily figure what it would be if he was measuring at the tread surface of the tire.
Toe if in inches is measured out at the surface of the tire.
The gauge is being used at the wheel.
Diameter matters.

From the very center of the wheel -
At 12 inches, 1 degree angle is .209 inches.
At 24 inches, 1 degree angle is .418 inches.

The higher you go on the tire, the longer the distance is and the greater the measurement would be for the same "angle" toe-in".

 

[Lunentucker]

And here I thought, based on your art work, that you did have extra hands.

The AI generator has just about retired my developed skillset.

 

[JTGuy]

My technique of bolting angle iron to the two lower hub studs and measuring front and back has served me well. Once a year I take it in for a proper alignment and it's usually within spec.

I do the same thing with 3 foot 2x2 aluminum. First I got a laser alignment then took the measurements at the front of the rotor and another 2 feet in front. About 1/16 difference. Then I replaced the tie rod with the Fusion one and adjusted till I go the same measurements. Perfect. Drives straight with no pull. Tires wearing perfect. Could get it checked but no rush.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

The AI generator has just about retired my developed skillset.

Dang, dude, now you've got me wanting to take and send these to my son to have them enlarged and professionally printed and framed.
Steampunk Jeep, now that's just cool.

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