Livernois Motorsports Tune claims 50HP gains (on E85) for V6 JL Wrangler and JT Gladiator

old motorhead

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True, but you can still get a bunch from a na engine with proper tuning.

We were getting 550 out of 2liters with only 13.5lbs of boost on E85, but I totally believe Livernoise about their claim of +50hp.
I'm going to politely disagree. I'll bet that most of the power increase can be had with just a good 93 octane tune on a Gladiator. From what I've seen with GM LS engines, unless you have ridiculously high static compression (13:1 for example), there's not much to be had going flex fuel naturally aspirated. Now, add forced induction, it's a totally different story. An extra 50 to 75 hp on a 650 hp engine is easily done.





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BrntWS6

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is that taking into account the additional consumption on E85?
Yes, i believe if the price difference is greater than 20% there is a benefit. Around here E85 is $2.00/gal and 93 is over $3.00.

Going from 87 to E85 probably would cost you money.


Not completely sold on engine longevity with E85 though. Its hard to find any information on long running high mileage engines with only E85.
 

d k

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Well, it might not be much, but I can tell you on our race car, the engine ran perfect and was very clean during teardown.
I had an FRS, 2.0L supercharged at 13.5 psi, and we were making 550hp and never had an issue.

I really think the issues have more to do with tuning than anything else. The ECU needs to know exactly what the ratio of gas and ethanol is before the engine can run right.

Once I'm satisfied with the fact that Livernoise can do that, I would not hesitate to run Ethanol.

Although I do not see any reason to actually run E85 in the Jeep.
It would be nice to have the flexibility and maybe splash in some E85 when towing or something.


Yes, i believe if the price difference is greater than 20% there is a benefit. Around here E85 is $2.00/gal and 93 is over $3.00.

Going from 87 to E85 probably would cost you money.


Not completely sold on engine longevity with E85 though. Its hard to find any information on long running high mileage engines with only E85.
 

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Correct me if I am wrong. But E85 would be more than a tune. You would need a different fuel pump, lines injectors etc. E85 would eat up the components. I had a flex full Tahoe in 2004. All kinds of fuel pump issues with that vehicle and it was supposed to run E85. I was at a gas station in Kansas and some poor soul dropped E85 in his non E85 car and screwed it up.


I didn't realize that was on E85 until I watched the video. The gains on 91 are a little more like what I would expect.
 

BrntWS6

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Well, it might not be much, but I can tell you on our race car, the engine ran perfect and was very clean during teardown.
I had an FRS, 2.0L supercharged at 13.5 psi, and we were making 550hp and never had an issue.

I really think the issues have more to do with tuning than anything else. The ECU needs to know exactly what the ratio of gas and ethanol is before the engine can run right.

Once I'm satisfied with the fact that Livernoise can do that, I would not hesitate to run Ethanol.

Although I do not see any reason to actually run E85 in the Jeep.
It would be nice to have the flexibility and maybe splash in some E85 when towing or something.
I have heard the same thing. I was going to do E85 on a forged LS3 build with a D1X. I am sure it would have been fine for the 500 miles a year i would use it for.

But there is very little information on what happens after 300k miles on E85. Here and there I see a post from a Chrysler or ford engineer saying it is hard on engines long term. But it is the internet so who really knows if they are legit. I can not find a long term 'torture test' with E85 anywhere though.
 

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Correct me if I am wrong. But E85 would be more than a tune. You would need a different fuel pump, lines injectors etc. E85 would eat up the components. I had a flex full Tahoe in 2004. All kinds of fuel pump issues with that vehicle and it was supposed to run E85. I was at a gas station in Kansas and some poor soul dropped E85 in his non E85 car and screwed it up.
The 3.6l is already setup for flex fuel from the factory. It is only limited by the tune.
 

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Yes and no...

E85 doesnt require more than a tune, but it might.
It needs more fuel per air to achieve the correct mixture, so in crazy builds, you are going to run out of injectors and fuel pump very soon.
However, it lends itself really well to super high static compression paired with boost.
we were at 12:1 and 13.5lbs, so try that with even race gas...

You don't need 'different' injectors, you just need to make sure the injectors can support the extra flow. Adding 50hp is nothing in terms of capacity. Factory leaves a ton of headroom anyway.

Now, putting a supercharger on it and running 100% on Ethanol, you might run into issues there.

Most newer fuel system components are all stainless and corrosion resistant anyway since even regular gas has some ethanol in it.

Personally, I would not hesitate to run Ethanol and would expect the engine to last for 200K miles, but that's just me. I saw what it did to our race engine, and was quite pleased.

Dropping E85 on a non E85 car is a totally different story. Without compensating for it with a tune, you run that engine very lean (ecu is trying to get to 14.7, E85 likes 11:1), so that's where the problem comes in. And a lot of people who don't understand the specifics, will just say: E85 is junk, it blew up my neighbors engine etc.
It's not at all the case.



Correct me if I am wrong. But E85 would be more than a tune. You would need a different fuel pump, lines injectors etc. E85 would eat up the components. I had a flex full Tahoe in 2004. All kinds of fuel pump issues with that vehicle and it was supposed to run E85. I was at a gas station in Kansas and some poor soul dropped E85 in his non E85 car and screwed it up.
 

d k

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There is absolutely not basis for that.

I would bet that a properly tuned engine would last longer on E85 than gasoline.


Here and there I see a post from a Chrysler or ford engineer saying it is hard on engines long term.
 

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Just ordered mine today. Doing it with a spare ECM so if I do turn in my lease I'm not on the hook then. I'll be updating as I go as it's a semi-long process since I won't be doing the unlocked
ECM install until after my steering TSB is completed.
 

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I'm going to politely disagree. I'll bet that most of the power increase can be had with just a good 93 octane tune on a Gladiator. From what I've seen with GM LS engines, unless you have ridiculously high static compression (13:1 for example), there's not much to be had going flex fuel naturally aspirated. Now, add forced induction, it's a totally different story. An extra 50 to 75 hp on a 650 hp engine is easily done.
My Chevy had appreciable HP gain with E85 - it pulled my trailer a lot better on the hills.
11.5:1 is fine for E85, I know a few folks building old-skool engines for E85 and they run about 11:1 compression. There's more to it (the fuel system has to be able to handle that strong an ethanol mix for one thing) different cam grinds, etc., but they're doing it. And the track near me has an annual ethanol run.
 

Redwings1

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I did the ECM unlock, e-85/93 tune and trans tune. Unbelievable how much better the truck runs. I have 35's on my mojave and thought the truck was a total pig. So I got an exhaust, sounded better no help. I got an air box, sounded better no help. I got a afe scorcher, a little throttle response. I got a sprint throttle booster, it helped throttle a little. The Livernois ecm and trans tune is awesome on e-85. I have taken afe scorcher and sprint throttle boost off. I actually look forward to my drive to work. It also took out the 1500 rpm stumble I had also. I recommend this to anybody that thinks the gladiator just needs more power.
 

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I did the ECM unlock, e-85/93 tune and trans tune. Unbelievable how much better the truck runs. I have 35's on my mojave and thought the truck was a total pig. So I got an exhaust, sounded better no help. I got an air box, sounded better no help. I got a afe scorcher, a little throttle response. I got a sprint throttle booster, it helped throttle a little. The Livernois ecm and trans tune is awesome on e-85. I have taken afe scorcher and sprint throttle boost off. I actually look forward to my drive to work. It also took out the 1500 rpm stumble I had also. I recommend this to anybody that thinks the gladiator just needs more power.
What does the trans tune do? More than anything, I think this thing needs a trans tune to hold gears longer and not lug so much. Did it on my WK2 with GDE and it made a huge difference. From the Livernois site it’s hard to tell what exactly the trans portion does. Does it have selectable options?

“Transmission modifications with reduced torque management and modified shift points/firmness (8-speed Auto Transmission only, 5-speed Auto under development)”
 

DAVECS1

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I imagine 3/4 of that gain comes from just cleaning up the stock "tune" it is not ideal by any stretch of the imagination. At least the one, I took out of my ride.
 

Redwings1

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As for the trans tune, they recommend it and told me that it will firm up shifts, holding longer is just the fact that it more HP. It doesnt hunt all the time like it did and increased throttle response so I could get rid of the afe scorcher and sprint throttle booster. They didn't even know about the 1500 rpm stumble, but it got rid of it. I love both and would highly recommend.
 

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