Loose Steering?

[jrf]

Yesterday they said that yes it is a problem and we are going to work to fix it. Now today, they are saying that the other 2 that they have on the lot are doing the same thing and that its how they are designed to operate, so there is nothing they can do.

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[ShadowsPapa]

Just heard from my dealer on my loose steering issue. Yesterday they said that yes it is a problem and we are going to work to fix it. Now today, they are saying that the other 2 that they have on the lot are doing the same thing and that its how they are designed to operate, so there is nothing they can do. Total BS i say. They did however check all of the nuts and bolts and nothing is loose. I would definitely love to drive one that there is no steering issue to compare. Anyone in the Charlotte, Union County area?

They only have two on the lot?
The dealer I went through has 20, and another not far away at least 10-15.

 

[BeeYoBe]

They only have two on the lot?
The dealer I went through has 20, and another not far away at least 10-15.

I had to confirm this as well., they only have 2 overlands like mine on the lot. Many other sports and rubis.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I had to confirm this as well., they only have 2 overlands like mine on the lot. Many other sports and rubis.

The Overland being the red-headed step child of Jeep people tends to not be stocked. A dealer having 20 JTs total will likely only have 2 or 3 Overland, 10-12 Rubicons and the rest being Sport of some configuration. I looked over every single JT on two lots of larger dealerships here and no one keeps Overland around. I can find many dozens of Rubicons that would match my "wants list" ON LOTS, in stock, within a couple hundred miles - Overland, LOL, only a handful.

 

[1stjeepguy]

Hey Guys- 1st post here on the forum, been following along on this one for awhile.
First Jeep I've owned....Mine is Overland, running stock.
I test drove 2, a sport and the one I bought. I recall commenting on the steering, and getting feedback from the salesman that they were designed that way for off-roading..so that you could better navigate obstacles with a looser steering wheel. ?
Anyway, I've got about 3000 miles on it...so far, I'll say the steering leaves a lot to be desired. I do notice right and left wander on various road types at various speeds. Then back and forth action on the wheel and managing the resulting overcorrections. Definitely gotta keep my eyes on the road at all times and micromanage staying in my lane.
@BeeYoBe, I'm north of Charlotte.. not exactly close to Union county but reasonably close enough that perhaps we could meet and compare steering at some point.

 

[jrf]

that they were designed that way for off-roading..so that you could better navigate obstacles with a looser steering wheel.

I've heard that one too...salesman's gotta say something to account for the fact it's not right....I'd ask him how EXACTLY a loose steering wheel helps off-road. And if they really did want it loose off road... well then program the damn thing into the "off-road+" mode or make it only do that at slow speeds...not highways speeds.

1. Sorry you are also having a problem
2. your salesman lied to you
3. You're probably not shocked
4. Welcome to the club

 

[ShadowsPapa]

LOL - for navigating TIGHT spaces I want that steering to respond NOW, not 2 inches from now.
I've had to put vehicles and trailers into awfully tight places over my life and tight steering that responds but doesn't over-respond is necessary for navigating. If you are on rocky, uneven ground and the vehicle wants to charge to the left and is headed toward a ledge, how does having to take out 2" of play before it responds help you? Wow, sales people should have a mandatory class in off-roading before they can sell anything. If I'm on the edge of slipping or making it over a rock, I want instant response, I don't want IT to think about it before responding to my wheel movement.

Here's my poll as of today - should tell them something........

 

[Doolin64]

It's not going to dissuade me from my spring purchase, but on a long test ride it was really noticeable how poor the steering was.

 

[Gatorized]

Polling is clear - there are too many ‘loose’ JTs and far too many stupid sales people!

 

[Factoid]

I just picked up my rubi after having the dealer install the Mopar 2" lift. Before purchase, I drove it fairly aggressively as a pre-purchase "shake down" (to the point the sales guy started to look like Henry Ford in the Ford vs. Ferrari movie when Shelby takes him for a ride). It was rock solid and drove great. My last two solid axel off roaders were a 1966 Bronco and 1988 LR Defender, both heavily modified. I was really happy with the rubi ride and handling. After the lift and before installing my new rims/tires (37/13.5-20), I don't feel any difference, it doesn't feel top heavy, sway or bounce excessively. The steering also feels tight. It does look silly with a lift and the stock wheels, but that will get addressed next month.

I read through this entire thread and there appear to be two camps emerging on the steering issues.

1. The dead spot in the steering box issue that makes highway driving, particularly with wind and/or defined grooves in the road "challenging".
2. The non-steering box, tire pressure, alignment, steering linkage issue that makes the steering feel loose always.

It seems to me that #1 is empirical, dangerous and I cannot see how FCA can deny it or the dealer service department not detect it.

I would think #2 is more perception and this is where the dealer gets away with saying its a Jeep, they all do that. Typically, alignment, tire balance and tire pressure combine to create these issues with larger diameter tires on smaller diameter rims multiplied by speed exacerbating the issue. It would be interesting to track, but I am intrigued by the Overland 18" wheels having the same or greater complaints (Is this true?).

Perhaps the two issues are how FCA is getting away with ignoring the problems, playing the middle ground. Most states have lemon laws and it would seem to me a few lemon law complaints would be enough the get their attention. Some of you may remember the Porsche "exploding IMS bearing" in the early 2000's flat 6 cylinder engines? Porsche ignored it for years, denying it was an issue until enough owners banded together and demanded action.

I would hate to think that is what is required here. I look forward to more insight and intel as this situation evolves and I really appreciate those of you taking an active role in documenting and troubleshooting the complaints.

 

[jrf]

Most states have lemon laws and it would seem to me a few lemon law complaints would be enough the get their attention.

But if you claim it's not a problem, don't log it...and say that it's normal...then your Jeep doesn't have a problem...get it? Yeah...they know how to work the system.

 

[Scrubb84]

Has anybody got their serv dept to flash the steering just for kicks yet? I tried but they said “it wouldn’t let them do it”.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I just picked up my rubi after having the dealer install the Mopar 2" lift. Before purchase, I drove it fairly aggressively as a pre-purchase "shake down" (to the point the sales guy started to look like Henry Ford in the Ford vs. Ferrari movie when Shelby takes him for a ride). It was rock solid and drove great. My last two solid axel off roaders were a 1966 Bronco and 1988 LR Defender, both heavily modified. I was really happy with the rubi ride and handling. After the lift and before installing my new rims/tires (37/13.5-20), I don't feel any difference, it doesn't feel top heavy, sway or bounce excessively. The steering also feels tight. It does look silly with a lift and the stock wheels, but that will get addressed next month.

I read through this entire thread and there appear to be two camps emerging on the steering issues.

1. The dead spot in the steering box issue that makes highway driving, particularly with wind and/or defined grooves in the road "challenging".
2. The non-steering box, tire pressure, alignment, steering linkage issue that makes the steering feel loose always.

It seems to me that #1 is empirical, dangerous and I cannot see how FCA can deny it or the dealer service department not detect it.

I would think #2 is more perception and this is where the dealer gets away with saying its a Jeep, they all do that. Typically, alignment, tire balance and tire pressure combine to create these issues with larger diameter tires on smaller diameter rims multiplied by speed exacerbating the issue. It would be interesting to track, but I am intrigued by the Overland 18" wheels having the same or greater complaints (Is this true?).

Perhaps the two issues are how FCA is getting away with ignoring the problems, playing the middle ground. Most states have lemon laws and it would seem to me a few lemon law complaints would be enough the get their attention. Some of you may remember the Porsche "exploding IMS bearing" in the early 2000's flat 6 cylinder engines? Porsche ignored it for years, denying it was an issue until enough owners banded together and demanded action.

I would hate to think that is what is required here. I look forward to more insight and intel as this situation evolves and I really appreciate those of you taking an active role in documenting and troubleshooting the complaints.

I disagree with your perception theory on #2 - too many of us have solid steering JTs - and for me this having been my first solid axle vehicle in a while to find it's actually BETTER than some of the other vehicles I have and have had - and other Jeep owners saying no, their other Jeeps do better, it's an issue. Not of perception. IF it was perception then you'd find at least some responses checked for the bottom choice.
The fact that many say there is no issue, and many who have this as their very first jeep say no issue, and that includes people across the JT spectrum, you'd have people like me coming from Grand Cherokees, Chevys, and sports cars (I have done auto-cross over the years) talk about the steering being less than good.
I say mine is just fine. Not the slightest problem at all - that's coming from driving any of my other cars or trucks.
No, Overlands don't have greater complaints - some Overland owners, such as myself, say the steering is perfect.
In fact, I'd say it's right in there with all of the other vehicles we own (or one just sold) - low-riding performance cars with brand new suspension and steering parts freshly aligned.
The Overland tires are roughly the same height as some of the others, on larger diameter wheels so there's less flex in the sidewall - meaning a movement of the steering linkage should translate to movement of the tire on the pavement much faster than the same height tire on a smaller rim. Large tires on smaller diameter rims should mean more slop - more movement of the rim before the tire flexes enough to respond. The point of the smaller diameter rims of the rock crawlers is to allow for flex, sideways and otherwise, and the tire gripping the rocks. The larger rims are to give a more responsive tight steering. (it's one reason some of the people in my groups put on larger rims with shorter sidewall tires - the things turn and respond like lightening although it's less good in bad weather and bad roads)

 

[Factoid]

I disagree with your perception theory on #2 - too many of us have solid steering JTs - and for me this having been my first solid axle vehicle in a while to find it's actually BETTER than some of the other vehicles I have and have had - and other Jeep owners saying no, their other Jeeps do better, it's an issue. Not of perception. IF it was perception then you'd find at least some responses checked for the bottom choice.
The fact that many say there is no issue, and many who have this as their very first jeep say no issue, and that includes people across the JT spectrum, you'd have people like me coming from Grand Cherokees, Chevys, and sports cars (I have done auto-cross over the years) talk about the steering being less than good.
I say mine is just fine. Not the slightest problem at all - that's coming from driving any of my other cars or trucks.
No, Overlands don't have greater complaints - some Overland owners, such as myself, say the steering is perfect.
In fact, I'd say it's right in there with all of the other vehicles we own (or one just sold) - low-riding performance cars with brand new suspension and steering parts freshly aligned.
The Overland tires are roughly the same height as some of the others, on larger diameter wheels so there's less flex in the sidewall - meaning a movement of the steering linkage should translate to movement of the tire on the pavement much faster than the same height tire on a smaller rim. Large tires on smaller diameter rims should mean more slop - more movement of the rim before the tire flexes enough to respond. The point of the smaller diameter rims of the rock crawlers is to allow for flex, sideways and otherwise, and the tire gripping the rocks. The larger rims are to give a more responsive tight steering. (it's one reason some of the people in my groups put on larger rims with shorter sidewall tires - the things turn and respond like lightening although it's less good in bad weather and bad roads)

I’m only referring to those who are reporting problems. I don’t fall into either of these categories and it sounds like you don’t either. I’ve been building and restoring cars for 40 years and I’ve never found a problem that can’t be fixed one way or another. Just trying to help!

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I’m only referring to those who are reporting problems. I don’t fall into either of these categories and it sounds like you don’t either. I’ve been building and restoring cars for 40 years and I’ve never found a problem that can’t be fixed one way or another. Just trying to help!

Interesting, same here - since the early 1970s. Started at age 14, now 62.
When you collect and drive the cars I do, you have to be creative LOL
Hardly any new parts available and even some of them are impossible to find used.
Guess that's why I'm trying to gather information and get some logic to this - troubleshooting has been my thing.

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