Lug nut torque

[Murgatroid]

I had snow tires for my last vehicle, since it was not 4WD and a sports car and I'm a nurse and have to get to work. So I never worried about rusting up because I'm taking them on and off twice a year. Now that I've got a Jeep, I'm still thinking about snow tires because my last vehicle taught me that tires were more important than number of drive wheels. My driveway is sloped, I have to climb up to the road, with past 2wd and 4wd vehicle I've had, none got me up my driveway like my rear wheel drive sports car with snow tires. So I will be changing tires often and will stick with factory recommendations.
Now this is my first Jeep, and maybe the Jeep is better than my other 4wd (Kia sportage) and can make it up without snow tires. Well just had a thought while typing, maybe I should compare the cost of a snow plow blade to snow tires that will wear out and have to be changed twice a year.

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[Ole Cowboy]

Interesting comments and I don’t want to argue with anyone. If people rotated their tires like they are suppose to two things would happen:

1. Your lug nuts won’t seize to the bolts
2. Your tires will last longer...

Me personally coming from a racing background and having owned too many vehicles to count I do use a small (very small) amount of copper based anti seize usually once every two years.

I’ve never lost a wheel on my Porsche’s running at over 1.0 G on the track...but we always torque our wheels before any high speed shenanigans ;-)

I really like the copper-based anti-seize, I use it anywhere I do not want a perm bond, it works exceptionally well.

Over many years I have seen a few wheels come off and in every single case, it was traced back to over-tightening with air guns and breaking the bolt loose and over time it fails. Failure to properly tighten or in some cases someone puts them on hand tight and it gives the appearance of them being properly torqued. It happened to me once when I had my tires rotated, the left rear was only put on hand tight and the guy took a 'bathroom' break and when he returned he forgot the left rear. I did not make it much further than about 100 yds when I pulled over to see what the noise and rear of my Jeep shifting back and forth was. It's not something so benign that you would keep driving.

Albeit I did have a lady pull into the shop one day complaining about a loud noise in the rear of her car that went whop whop whop all the time. I walk to the back of the car and lay down to see and yes, its was a flat tire or what remained of a flat tire. Since I did not sell tires I drove down to the Goodyear store and had them replace it. They also had to replace the wheel as it was steel and she had driven on it so long that it had begun to flare. I felt sorry for the poor lady and did not even charge her for time and let have the new wheel and tire at my cost.

 

[G8R]

I spent 35+ years driving many different vehicles in/around Salt Lake City. An area of the country I would guess uses more salt in the winter than any other place. In all my time I have never had a seized lug nut nor broken a bolt. I rotate tires every 5000 miles. Iv'e never used any kind of anti-seize compound. I do not use a torque wrench but use a full sized star wrench and tighten down till they squeak. I've only lost lug nuts on my very first vehicle (72' CJ5 coupled with a stupid young driver who obviously knew everything...) and thus learned to tighten with a star wrench instead of the crap that came with the vehicle. I also double check the tire shops/dealerships after any kind of service/rotations as I have had multiple instances where they did not tighten one or more lug nuts properly.

 

[PackerBacker]

I had snow tires for my last vehicle, since it was not 4WD and a sports car and I'm a nurse and have to get to work. So I never worried about rusting up because I'm taking them on and off twice a year. Now that I've got a Jeep, I'm still thinking about snow tires because my last vehicle taught me that tires were more important than number of drive wheels. My driveway is sloped, I have to climb up to the road, with past 2wd and 4wd vehicle I've had, none got me up my driveway like my rear wheel drive sports car with snow tires. So I will be changing tires often and will stick with factory recommendations.
Now this is my first Jeep, and maybe the Jeep is better than my other 4wd (Kia sportage) and can make it up without snow tires. Well just had a thought while typing, maybe I should compare the cost of a snow plow blade to snow tires that will wear out and have to be changed twice a year.

Not to sidetrack things talking about torque, but if you’re used to snow tires, nothing will likely be acceptable for your Gladiator except snows (technically winter tires). I could maybe see the Rubicon stockers being ok if they are winter/3 peak rated like the KO2s on the JL Rubicon are rated. I had a JLU Sahara before the JT, and I hated driving the Sahara with the Dueler ATs from factory so much that I still got Blizzaks for it. The JL was my first 4WD vehicle (had AWD before) and I preferred driving my 2700lb FWD Honda Civic with Blizzaks in snow/slush over the JL with AT tires.

 

[G8R]

Not to sidetrack things talking about torque, but if you’re used to snow tires, nothing will likely be acceptable for your Gladiator except snows (technically winter tires). I could maybe see the Rubicon stockers being ok if they are winter/3 peak rated like the KO2s on the JL Rubicon are rated. I had a JLU Sahara before the JT, and I hated driving the Sahara with the Dueler ATs from factory so much that I still got Blizzaks for it. The JL was my first 4WD vehicle (had AWD before) and I preferred driving my 2700lb FWD Honda Civic with Blizzaks in snow/slush over the JL with AT tires.

In my opinion Blizzaks are the best on highway snow tires I have ever used. I fully expect my Falken M/Ts to be near useless on snow packed paved roads but I will have to deal with them and drive accordingly. I need the MTs for hunting season which extends right up to Jan 7 for me this year.

 

[Jowen]

Okay tire torque, if you use the factory lug wrench your screwed, i carry a large 4 way lug wrench that way I have for all my jeeps, in my jt it fits nicely behind the drivers side passenger seat, my tree saver and recovery strap also fit if you try.

 

[bgenlvtex]

Interesting comments and I don’t want to argue with anyone. If people rotated their tires like they are suppose to two things would happen:

1. Your lug nuts won’t seize to the bolts
2. Your tires will last longer...

Me personally coming from a racing background and having owned too many vehicles to count I do use a small (very small) amount of copper based anti seize usually once every two years.

I’ve never lost a wheel on my Porsche’s running at over 1.0 G on the track...but we always torque our wheels before any high speed shenanigans ;-)

 

[SleepyJeep]

So, none of you guys use a power impact wrench to loosen lug nuts?

I have been contemplating purchasing this one for a while now -

https://toolguyd.com/milwaukee-motorized-digital-torque-wrench-q42019/

 

[Hootbro]

So, none of you guys use a power impact wrench to loosen lug nuts?

I have been contemplating purchasing this one for a while now -

https://toolguyd.com/milwaukee-motorized-digital-torque-wrench-q42019/

Unless I was making a living torquing stuff all day, that tool is a little overkill for DIY home use. Still cool but a niche tool for most people.

 

[Renegade]

So, none of you guys use a power impact wrench to loosen lug nuts?

I have been contemplating purchasing this one for a while now -

https://toolguyd.com/milwaukee-motorized-digital-torque-wrench-q42019/

Yep. I use an impact to take them off, and put them back on. I also don't usually torque them, because I know that my impact gets them tight enough to keep my wheels on without over torquing them. I've used this impact for about 15 years and only had a problem once, when the chuck got plugged.

 

[Texops]

I use an impact to remove & torque wrench to install oh & i carry a spare torque wrench with me always. I’ve snapped to many studs.

 

[SleepyJeep]

Yeah, sadly I am not strong enough to remove those lug nuts even with a breaker bar - Don't plan on doing it in the cold either so I decided to put an impact wrench in the truck along with the thin walled socket set. Although, to be fair I have never tried it manually LOL. It just looks like it will take a lot of elbow grease...

 

[arosen1997]

Applying a torque spec with anti seize applied will stretch a lug stud further resulting in a higher clamping force compared to applying the same torque spec dry. So counterintuitively you'd actually want to lessen your torque spec slightly for applying anti seize. However with the torque we're dealing with its honestly not an issue and none of us should be worried about. 130ft-lbs will be fine dry or lubricated. I'll always recommend applying a peas sized dot of decent copper based anti seize any time you remove or install wheels.

Yeah, sadly I am not strong enough to remove those lug nuts even with a breaker bar - Don't plan on doing it in the cold either so I decided to put an impact wrench in the truck along with the thin walled socket set. Although, to be fair I have never tried it manually LOL. It just looks like it will take a lot of elbow grease...

Honestly 130 Ft-lbs is not bad, even with the stock lug wrench. If you properly position it to where you're lifting to break them loose its only the equivalent of lifting about 110 pounds with the length of the stock wrench. You can pick up a cheap 22mm 6pt deepwell socket and a 16", 18", or even 20" breaker bar to go with for under 30$ all together on Amazon, that'll make it even easier.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Was looking for the correct factory torque specs without digging out the book and ran into this -
Anyone who knows me around here knows - I live in IOWA - the rust belt. We have half of the world's collection of all salts come winter time. Cars that are said to not ever rust last less than 10 years here unless really cared for. NEVER BUY AN IOWA USED CAR.
I have collected, restored, and repaired cars since the early 1970s. First shop we also sold tires.
When I was in college, I worked in a shop doing suspension, brakes, steering and alignment - and we sold tires.
I've owned trucks, cars, tractors, grain trucks, you name it.
And I have parted out cars that were so badly rotted they sagged in the middle and raccoons climbed up through the floors to gain access to sleep. Picture below one car I parted was so badle rusted the steering box fell off the frame rail, the front cross member had holes in it and I popped loose the top ball joints, yanked the strut rod bracket off the one frame rail, it had already fallen off the other, and using a chain, yanked the entire front cross member and the lower half of the suspension and steering off the car - yeah, I pulled it out - me.
And yet I got the lug nuts off so I could salvage some brake parts and an axle - without aid of a torch. I used panther piss and my breaker bar.
I have never had a lug nut I could not get off without either hand tools or an air impact. Never. I've never had to torch or cut any off.
Since way back I have always properly torqued wheel lug nuts in stages. I even made the shop that put tires on my soon-to-be-wife's Camaro because when she got the car back it had a shimmy when braking. First time I griped and told them tell your idiot keep that damned impact away from those wheels - and made them turn the rotors and fix it. Guess what - the idiot put the wheels back on with an impact - brake shimmy. In the end they replaced the rotors and put the wheels on and torqued them properly - no troubles. (I'd have done it but I didn't have access to my tools as we had just moved.)
I torque things on.
I saw a comment about "good luck changing it if you have a flat" or words to that effect.
Really? Funny thing, I never had trouble getting them back off later.
You think 130 is tight? Try head bolts at a lot tighter than that - I get those loose without trouble.
How about AMC rear axle hub nuts - 250 ft/lbs. Yeah, I put a pipe on my wrench when tightening them but I can get them loose without calling for help.
You guys must never have put duals on a 1086 tractor........... I used a 3/4" drive set for that.
Granted, I am old, 25-30 pounds over weight not, have back issues and arthritis, but if the spec is 130, I'm going 130 and I guarantee I won't have troubles.
My Eagle wheels, Javelin wheels, all torqued properly. And I had my Silverado for 9 years - never had trouble with lug nuts - and kept them at spec - and drove it year-around. Again, this is Iowa, rough winters, and the salt eats and busts up concrete driveways and garage floors. My Ford truck brake lines rotted from the outside in - and the frame rusted badly from all the salt - but never had lug nut troubles.
I have cans of lug nuts dating back into the 1960s from various cars parted, and funny thing, few of them have much rust. My original Eagle lug nuts and studs - almost no rust and that's from 1982. My 73 Javelin has been patched at the sills and the trunk needs some patching but the lug nuts and studs - not rusted. (it sat in a muddy field for years before the previous owner salvaged it and got it on the road again)
If I weigh 200 pounds and I stand on a bar that's only 12" long, that's 200 ft/lbs of torque. If that same lug wrench is 18" long - do the math - that's a heck of a lot of torque ability to break a nut loose.

Anyway, thanks to the previous post where a kind person posted the correct lug nut torque - exactly what I was looking for to double-check myself. I generally have a "feel" for it after hundreds of tires and wheels off and on, but still...........


*Disclaimer - maybe sea salt is different? Maybe it's a lot worse than the crap they dump here that leave everything white with scale and rusted to bits.

 

[Retro Bait]

Personally I have always used a torque wrench on lug nuts unless it was beside the road in which case I took care of it asap. I worked on Caterpillar equipment for years at a dealership and torque was critical on a majority of fasteners. Some of that stuff was 3500ft lb+

I personally don't like using anti seize compound on lugs but I use lots of it elsewhere. Years ago I saw a set of tractor trailer wheels (stud piloted) with cone seats that were antisiezed and properly torqued come loose but on the same axle opposite side was torqued without antisieze and they were fine.

I could only assume that the cone seats need to be dry to aid in holding. We thought at first the studs had stretched due to over torque with the compound on the threads and seat but the micrometer said no.

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