Not impressed with Gladiator performance in snow

[Swordfish44]

Actually, it’s not exactly the same thing. The Auto 4H mode is mostly reactive to slip. The transfer case may apply more power to the front axle proactively based upon your accelerator input and steering angle being fairly straight, but mostly power is ramped up to the front axle based upon slippage detected through speed differences of the ABS wheel sensors. It’s really no different than full-size half tons with "4A" mode which do the same. My point is that if you are already locked into 4H going up a snowy hill, you will never lose momentum because the auto 4x4 system has to detect slippage and transfer power, no matter how quickly it can do it.
[/QUOTE]
Well damn. That is somewhat disappointing! I wish instead of making this an optional package it was across the board. Same with LED headlights! They want to nickel and dime us to death on top of their already overpriced vehicles. You also have to pay extra for an auto transmission as a “package”.

As far as your OP. I would put on better tires and add some weight to the bed, on top of the rear axel. I’d bet you’ll notice an improvement.

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[Koolcarguy]

I have a 2022 Gladiator I bought as a new leftover at the beginning of this year. We got 6-8" snow last night and I decided to see how it performed as I live near a windy, hilly road that climbs about 1,000 feet over the course of a mile and a half or so. My Gladiator is an Overland and completely stock except I installed 295/70/18 Falken Wildpeak AT3W tires during the summer and have 1.75" Terraflex spacers. I have the basic 4x4 system with no automatic setting.

Anyway, last night during the height of the snow storm, I headed up the hill to the store and back down, in 4x4. I came away quite unimpressed. The Jeep spun easily. slid sideways, the traction control was engaging a lot, and stability control intervened several times. It felt very light in the back end, like it could come around. At one point near the steepest section of the climb, I cam to a stop and took off to see how it could handle that. It did get moving again, but not with tons of spinning and crabwalking. Keep in mind I'm an experienced driver in snowy difficult conditions in addition to be an off-road enthusiast with years of experience. We're not talking about mashing the gas and spinning out. Gentle acceleration suitable for conditions.

I came away a bit disappointed and wondering if it was just an exceptionally slippery snow. I still have my old 2002 Range Rover, which is 100% stock and has factory sized Toyo Open Country AT3 tires on it. For comparison, both are "all terrain" tires and both have the 3-peak snowflake symbol on them. The Rover's stock tire size in 255/55/18, so they are much smaller. Being curious, once I came back with the Jeep, I jumped into the RR and took the same route. There was no doubt the Rover felt much better and more confident. I stopped near the same place on the steep hill and the Rover got going with little fanfare. It does not have stability control but did come with factory 4-wheel traction control. The traction light never came on.

So bottom line...what's the deal here? Are the Gladiators just very light in the back end and prone to sliding around and losing traction? Or is it the oversized tires on the Jeep acting as floats rather than digging in? The Jeep tires are also load range E in this size, but I'm only running about 35 psi, similar to the Rover tires. Thoughts?

I would bet with the bigger tire you might want to play around with the psi a bit to find what works best .I own a ranch in Colorado at 8500 feet and live between Cheyenne and Laramie Wy 10 mikes off I80 one of the worst dmhwy drives in America both my Gladiators impress the heck out of me in the snow ans ice mine are both lifted 3.5 inches running 37's and both diesels but as the roads ice up I bring the air pressure down and they stick to the road great

 

[RavensEyeOffroad]

No issues with mine in the snow, especially with those same tires. I couldnt make it do something silly. I often livestream so my friends and family can get an idea of the roads before they go out. :D

 

[bucolic]

Sometimes I wonder how I ever made it to 60

My dad driving us around in brutal upstate NY winters, and when it got bad us kids jumped out and locked in the hubs. My dad was smart! Have a healthy 10-year-old get out in the snow while he stays nice and warm inside. As a treat, I got to shift. He would press in the clutch, and I had it down to a tee, and he worked the gas and clutch, and I worked the floor shifter!

I can't imagine my Jeep is worse than those in the snow? No traction control computers back then. Just lock em in and go!

I look forward to seeing the difference between my Jeep in the snow and my Sierra with the Auto 4WD.


I always thought the Auto systems picked which wheel to send power to. If it saw a particular wheel slipping, it sent power to a different combination?

 

[chorky]

35x10.5x17 Kenda Klever R/Ts over my Mickey Thompson Baja Boss A/Ts. The only reason I have them is, because the 255/85R17 Mickeys were on backorder at the time and I am impatient AF! Lol. I had these tires/wheels shortly before taking delivery and they went on the very next day.
Yeah… a little bit of traffic light reaction extra gas and slippage on the white crosswalk lines is not cool in my book.I’d like to sell my Kendas and get another set of Mickeys (same size) to run year round.

Guaranteed a better tire on wet and/or snow covered road

That's interesting to hear - my coworker has Kendra's and has never said anything bad about them at all. But he's also the one who talked me into getting KO2's for my TJ which is the absolute worse tire I have ever had.... I've heard other places though mixed reviews on the Kenda's.

Surprised not many people mentioned duratrac's here yet. They are pretty darn good in the snow/ice as well.

 

[Silverator]

Bottom line is that you don't have Selec-Trac. If you did, I suspect you would be here telling us how your JT is a beast in the snow (I know this because I ordered my JTM with Selec-Trac and AT3Ws).

Ditto. My Rubicon w/ Selec-Trac is awesome in the snow. Love it!! Can't wait for the snow this year!!!!!

 

[IanNubbit]

Go ahead and ignore everything below, the people here have generally more information then what was provided to Techs during training about this exact system. Wild world we live in. Props to the page

We all realize that the difference between 4HI and 4HI Auto is that the T-Case has a motor to disengage and engage the front driveshaft upon detected slip in Auto compared to always supplying torque to the front driveshaft, right? That's the 1 and only difference. It's still a basic T-Case and always is 50/50 (all 4 wheel drive settings, besides 4HI Auto when computer commanded to engage front driveshaft) or 0/100 (2H power distribution, or 4HI Auto when not computer commanded to engage front driveshaft)

 

[Belcher24256]

In my personal opinion and experience, the driver is a largely overlooked factor in snowy conditions.

I've gone from driving in snow maybe 2-3x a year to about 10 times that in the last 8 years.

Starting with a manual trans Tacoma, to a 07 Impreza fitted with snow tires, a WRX with the same. Multiple other Toyotas, up to a Tundra and now the Gladiator.

In the beginning with the Tacoma I felt duped, lead to believe that 4x4 was great in the snow. Lots of challenges especially with the MT gearset. Going to a small Impreza with full time AWD and snow tires only furthered that belief. Years later I started going up Mt Hood more and more in the winter and at this point between our 2018 4runner and my Gladiator I am way more confident and skilled in the snow.

The only vehicle I did not prefer in the snow was the Tundra, but only because other people are such a liability and it is so large (big target).

Of course the full time Subies would just be so much easier and mindless in the snow, but I rarely get to a point of feeling unsafe with the Jeep. Knowing my limitations and having had a lot of practice greatly change how snow days pan out for me.

Im not implying anyone is a bad driver here, rather, that snow driving is largely a skill that is more valuable to improve than to put unwarranted faith into a vehicle that can ultimately only perform as well as that driver.

I couldn’t agree with you more. The vehicle is like any tool equipped for certain jobs. The operator of that tool is the key to the actual performance. I know in the early and mid 90’s here in the Appalachian Mountains I have worked tons of single vehicle crashes on snow covered roads all while driving to the crash scene in a Chevy Caprice or a Ford Crown Victoria. More often than not the single vehicle crashes I drove to were 4x4 vehicles including Jeeps. It does not matter how capable your vehicle slowing way down depending on conditions means a lot. Tires are the other biggest factor. When we had to run chains to get around was actually when you would work less crashes. That means the biggest factor with vehicle stability and capability on snowy and icy roads was speed (the driver again). Obviously some tools are better than others but it doesn’t change the fact than the tool operator with the most experience doing a particular task can make up for shortcomings of a particular tool. I think we are just more attentive off road because no matter how much off road experiences any of us have it does not compare to our highway driving experience. Just be safe whether you are on road or off and the more you drive in certain conditions the better your vehicle will feel like it performs.JMO

 

[chorky]

I have it on my 22 and had it on my 20.
It was an option for the 20 - might have been for the 22 as well, can't recall

EDIT -
Checked the build sheet for my 2022 - it is under options

So yes, it was an option for 20, 21 and 22 model years.
I can't speak to 23 or 24 model years.



There is no problem with it that I'm aware of. It's standard in the 4xe Wrangler.
Look around the forums - so far no one I've seen has said "my SelecTrac failed" as far as Jeep. There's no talk of transfer cases on the 4xe forums and I've not seen it in the Wrangler forums but then I tend to not be there much - totally different crowd.
Likely it's a supplier issue - they can't buy them?
Seems to me there's a lot of stuff missing on the Jeep com build and price site. Slim pickens.

I just went back again to see if maybe I was missing something, nope. Under multiple build options and models for gladiator and wrangler, no selection-trac option available. Interesting...

I wonder if a person could swap out their rock track for a select-trac..... I'm sure there would be some reprogramming but I would imagine thats about it.

 

[jac04]

We all realize that the difference between 4HI and 4HI Auto is that the T-Case has a motor to disengage and engage the front driveshaft upon detected slip in Auto compared to always supplying torque to the front driveshaft, right? That's the 1 and only difference. It's still a basic T-Case and always is 50/50 (all 4 wheel drive settings, besides 4HI Auto when computer commanded to engage front driveshaft) or 0/100 (2H power distribution, or 4HI Auto when not computer commanded to engage front driveshaft)

Are you comparing the regular Command-Trac t-case with the Selec-Trac t-case? If so, what you have stated is not correct.

Selec-Trac in 4H AUTO uses a variable clutch system to vary the amount of power sent to the front based on a lot of factors including detected slip. It is not a simple engage/disengage system driven by a motor. In 4HI AUTO, the clutch system allows the front & rear driveshafts to turn at different speeds, acting like a center differential. Selec-Trac in 4H Part-Time uses the variable clutch system, but at 100% clutch engagement to force the front & rear driveshafts to turn at the same speed all the time.

Command-Trac in 4H Part-Time mechanically locks the front & rear driveshafts together, there is no clutch system.

 

[IamPro2A]

I'm on the western side of the state right near the Connecticut River pretty near the Vermont border, just a little south of the Upper Valley area. I also agree with you on the snow stats. Pretty record year would be 120" or so, which we do occasionally see. But typically where I live its about 80-100". I'm active in the snowmobiling scene up here, and we do monitor snow totals. Some years are really crappy and we get less than 50". I recall very clearly the storm we had in mid-December of 2020. Weather forecasters the night before pretty uniformly said 3-6" storm and gave us a "winter weather advisory" and not a winter storm warning. By noon the next day we had received 43" of snow. Most snow I've ever seen in my life at one time. Plow truck was stuck; resorted to using the tractor and helped a lot of neighbors in my area.

Ahhh, you're over THERE, lol. I'm way further north, and on the opposite side of the state. Right on the Maine border. Actually have good friends over in Acworth. Most of the weather websites put the NH state average snowfall in the low 70"s. My town is certainly at the higher end at over 93", and yes, we love the snow. Huge part of the local economy. If Gladiators sucked in the snow in general, they wouldnt be so popular here.

 

[Wolf Island Diver]

All things being equal a pickup will not perform as well in snow as an suv/wrangler because of the light bed. I’ve been up in the mountains and the hunters with the dog boxes always have an easier time. With some overlanding stuff, camper shell, etc., the Gladiator does a lot better.

 

[Wildtoad]

Here in central SC we rarely get snow and when we do, people go frigging nuts. People in empty bed pickup trucks do especially poor in snow here as there’s no weight on the rear tires so we see a lot of spinouts and loss of traction. Those that have experienced snow tend to put heavy junk over the rear tires so they can gain traction. My two cents.

 

[SargeDiesel]

I have a 2022 Gladiator I bought as a new leftover at the beginning of this year. We got 6-8" snow last night and I decided to see how it performed as I live near a windy, hilly road that climbs about 1,000 feet over the course of a mile and a half or so. My Gladiator is an Overland and completely stock except I installed 295/70/18 Falken Wildpeak AT3W tires during the summer and have 1.75" Terraflex spacers. I have the basic 4x4 system with no automatic setting.

Anyway, last night during the height of the snow storm, I headed up the hill to the store and back down, in 4x4. I came away quite unimpressed. The Jeep spun easily. slid sideways, the traction control was engaging a lot, and stability control intervened several times. It felt very light in the back end, like it could come around. At one point near the steepest section of the climb, I cam to a stop and took off to see how it could handle that. It did get moving again, but not with tons of spinning and crabwalking. Keep in mind I'm an experienced driver in snowy difficult conditions in addition to be an off-road enthusiast with years of experience. We're not talking about mashing the gas and spinning out. Gentle acceleration suitable for conditions.

I came away a bit disappointed and wondering if it was just an exceptionally slippery snow. I still have my old 2002 Range Rover, which is 100% stock and has factory sized Toyo Open Country AT3 tires on it. For comparison, both are "all terrain" tires and both have the 3-peak snowflake symbol on them. The Rover's stock tire size in 255/55/18, so they are much smaller. Being curious, once I came back with the Jeep, I jumped into the RR and took the same route. There was no doubt the Rover felt much better and more confident. I stopped near the same place on the steep hill and the Rover got going with little fanfare. It does not have stability control but did come with factory 4-wheel traction control. The traction light never came on.

So bottom line...what's the deal here? Are the Gladiators just very light in the back end and prone to sliding around and losing traction? Or is it the oversized tires on the Jeep acting as floats rather than digging in? The Jeep tires are also load range E in this size, but I'm only running about 35 psi, similar to the Rover tires. Thoughts?

As far as the rear-end... of course, its a no brainer... they are considerably lighter in the rear. I know what the door sticker says, but you would also run a considerable lower psi in the rear vs the front tire.... not sure how many miles are on the Gladiator tires, but they can be slippery until well broken in. But bottom line, I think select-a-trac would have made a huge difference.

 

[CreepyJeepy]

We did - I live in Western NH, near the CT River, just south of the "Upper Valley" area. Lower elevations got a little less. This is actually the third time it has snowed this year. First storm was about 2" and went away by the next day. Second storm was a dusting. This one has already melted by about 50% but I think it might stay. The forecasters told us this is an "El Nino" year which should make our winter warmer and wetter, but forecasters are rarely correct. Who knows.



Just FYI, my tires are 295 width. Pretty wide, but I've run a number of 3/4 and 1-ton pickups with 35x12.5x18 which are wider and they seem to do OK, and this is with at least 50psi in them. Maybe its the added weight, who knows. My plow truck is a Ford F-550 diesel 4x4 dump truck running Sumitomo ST909 traction tires all the way around at size 225x70x19/5. Skinny, but load range G (14-ply) and 110psi. The rear duals actually don't help in the snow, to prove your point. But the weight of the truck makes is go pretty well and do its task well. It doesn't have Select-Trac either, lol.



Nice looking Jeep, I really like it. However, your tires are 34.1" tall, not 35. My 295/70/18 are actually a hair taller.



The spacers don't matter, you're going to get road salt all over your vehicle no matter what. My JT is the only vehicle I've ever put wheel spacers on and it doesn't seem to get any saltier than any other totally stock vehicle. Salt is just a fact of life - the state and the municipalities are going to use your tax dollars to cover the road in a substance that destroys your expensive investment prematurely, so that all the terrible drivers in their crappy cars with crappy tires can safely make it to Wal-Mart.



Sir, I will call total and complete BS on your Miata / winter tire story. In my original post, I stated on the steepest part of the snow-covered hill I came to a stop in the Jeep (and later the Rover) and then took off. The Jeep struggled but got going. The Rover got going pretty easily. Your Miata would have never gotten going. I don't think your car would have made the climb at all. I'm very familiar with dedicated winter tires. I have previously run Blizzaks and Nokian Hakkapeliita snows; the Nokians were studded. Snows can make a world of difference, but they don't change the laws of physics. Without forward traction on the front and rear, on a steep incline the weight of the vehicle overcomes the available forward traction at the rear. No matter how good your snows are - and I think Blizzaks are the best - they are not the same as taking off on dry pavement. I'm including a picture of my F-350 pickup in the snow a couple years ago. This truck is fitted with 6 non-studded Nokian Hakkapeliitta LT2 10-ply dedicated snow tires. In the past I had also tried the studded version of this tire but the studs kick out too easily with the torque of these vehicles. I find these snow tires help slow the vehicle down a little better and make it handle in snow and slippery conditions better, but not night and day. It is useful but not a replacement for 4x4 or AWD. Now your advice on a second set of wheels with dedicated snows on my JT is something I was already mulling and I might do. A set of JT Sport 17" rims with Blizzaks in the stock 31.5" size. That's good advice, thanks.

I'm on the western side of the state right near the Connecticut River pretty near the Vermont border, just a little south of the Upper Valley area. I also agree with you on the snow stats. Pretty record year would be 120" or so, which we do occasionally see. But typically where I live its about 80-100". I'm active in the snowmobiling scene up here, and we do monitor snow totals. Some years are really crappy and we get less than 50". I recall very clearly the storm we had in mid-December of 2020. Weather forecasters the night before pretty uniformly said 3-6" storm and gave us a "winter weather advisory" and not a winter storm warning. By noon the next day we had received 43" of snow. Most snow I've ever seen in my life at one time. Plow truck was stuck; resorted to using the tractor and helped a lot of neighbors in my area.

lol…

On that drive I passed 2 ditched 4 runners, one ditched JL and a ditched f350.

Snow tires always take the win in snow…

Also lol with less weight you will stop faster.

If it was deep obviously I’d want my jeep, but on snowy roads vehicles with actual snow tires win. Always.

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