Official EcoDiesel Oil and Filter Recommendations

[biodiesel]

at no point was the MS-12991 spec ever stated as being required for use, it has always been recommended.

OEMs don't demand a specific oil, but they require the oil to meet a specification. In this case, the MS-12991 is a required spec alongside API SN or SN+. It's up to you as a consumer to decide if you want to follow that recommendation.

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[DylanM]

OEMs don't demand a specific oil, but they require the oil to meet a specification. In this case, the MS-12991 is a required spec alongside API SN or SN+. It's up to you as a consumer to decide if you want to follow that recommendation.

Again, MS-12991 has never been stated as being required, only the API category has been.

 

[biodiesel]

So in summary, use a ACEA A3/B4 API SP rated oil and you will meet the engines requirements.

That's correct. The oil gurus have said that MB229.5 (A3/B4) or MB229.51 (C3) designation will have the identical performance requirements as MS-12991. Plus, the newer oils will be better for the DPF.

If you are worried about warranty use a MS-12991 Plus ACEA A3/B4 API SP oil (aka Pennzoil platinum euro 5w-40)

Again, that's correct.

 

[biodiesel]

Again, MS-12991 has never been stated as being required, only the API category has been.

The MS-12991 designation is required. This has been confirmed by Stellantis and dealers. Amsoil wanted to approve their MS oil, but they can't because it doesn't have the MS-12991 designation. Instead, Amsoil recommends their FS formula which is subpar to the MS formula.

 

[DylanM]

The MS-12991 designation is required. This has been confirmed by Stellantis and dealers. Amsoil wanted to approve their MS oil, but they can't because it doesn't have the MS-12991 designation. Instead, Amsoil recommends their FS formula which is subpar to the MS formula.

Can you kindly provide evidence or proof that MS-12991 designation is required? All I've seen thus far has only been stated as a recommendation, and at that, always a recommendation in reference specifically to the Mopar oil.

 

[biodiesel]

My truck being a 2021 delivered in June, my powertrain warranty (5yrs) is about to expire so i am done playing stupid games.

My 2023 has a Mopar Maximum Care bumper-to-bumper extended warranty for 8 years/100,000 miles. But I'm not worried about it. I'll be switching to Amsoil MS as soon as I run out of my Pennzoil stash. We've had good conversations with the Amsoil and HPL technical departments, plus we've torn down a few of these engines. We know what these engines need for longevity. Honestly, tuning is one way to reduce engine wear.

 

[rharr]

My 2023 has a Mopar Maximum Care bumper-to-bumper extended warranty for 8 years/100,000 miles. But I'm not worried about it. I'll be switching to Amsoil MS as soon as I run out of my Pennzoil stash. We've had good conversations with the Amsoil and HPL technical departments, plus we've torn down a few of these engines. We know what these engines need for longevity. Honestly, tuning is one way to reduce engine wear.

GDE has been order, should be here friday

 

[biodiesel]

Can you kindly provide evidence or proof that MS-12991 designation is required?

I don't have any proof other than what we have learned from the engineers at Stellantis, which has been reinforced by a Mopar MasterTech, which has been reinforced through written documentation from Stellantis. In all of the literature, the MS-12991 is in addition to API SN or SN+. We all agree that it's an unnecessary designation, but for warranty purposes, we've been advised to use the MS-12991 specification, which there are plenty of oils to choose from.

"We recommend using Mopar® API Certified SAE 5W-40 Full Synthetic Engine Oil which meets the requirements of the manufacturer Material Standard MS-12991 and API SN or SP capable."

 

[biodiesel]

GDE has been order, should be here friday

You will like the GDE tune.

 

[DylanM]

I don't have any proof other than what we have learned from the engineers at Stellantis, which has been reinforced by a Mopar MasterTech, which has been reinforced through written documentation from Stellantis. In all of the literature, the MS-12991 is in addition to API SN or SN+. We all agree that it's an unnecessary designation, but for warranty purposes, we've been advised to use the MS-12991 specification, which there are plenty of oils to choose from.

"We recommend using Mopar® API Certified SAE 5W-40 Full Synthetic Engine Oil which meets the requirements of the manufacturer Material Standard MS-12991 and API SN or SP capable."

Thank you for being frank and honest. For the record, I do appreciate all the effort and contributions you have and continue to make in the ecodiesel community.

What I've been trying to drive home is that word choice in technical guidance is important. I spent an entire career in maintenance dealing with this on a daily basis. When one says something is required, it means there is no other option, ie, the guidance must be followed. When it says recommended, it means preferably you should go with the stated option but there is at least one other option that is permitted.

At no point have I ever seen nor has anybody been able to provide evidence where MS-12991 is required, it is always listed as you show above, as a specific recommendation for the Mopar oil. Even in the case of the 2023 rewrite of the owner's manual, it clearly differentiates that the Mopar oil is recommended but follows that up with the statement that other oils may be used but must be compliant with the specified API category, with the addition of also now including an ACEA rating.

 

[biodiesel]

Even in the case of the 2023 rewrite of the owner's manual, it clearly differentiates that the Mopar oil is recommended but follows that up with the statement that other oils may be used but must be compliant with the specified API category, with the addition of also now including an ACEA rating.

This is my first time to see this literature. I would agree that the 2023 revision clearly differentiates between the MS-12991 specification and the API SN/SP and ACEA A3/B4 spec. Beforehand, engineering and the MasterTech told us to stick with MS-12991 oils for warranty purposes. But this latest revision would give owners more flexibility.

 

[Vtur]

This is my first time to see this literature. I would agree that the 2023 revision clearly differentiates between the MS-12991 specification and the API SN/SP and ACEA A3/B4 spec. Beforehand, engineering and the MasterTech told us to stick with MS-12991 oils for warranty purposes. But this latest revision would give owners more flexibility.

That literature came out sometime mid 2022. Mine 2021 manual stated required on 1 page, and recommended on another page. Jeep just couldn't makeup their mind lol.

 

[biodiesel]

That literature came out sometime mid 2022. Mine 2021 manual stated required on 1 page, and recommended on another page. Jeep just couldn't makeup their mind lol.

There were a lot of changes for sure. I was involved in 2020 and 2021, but by 2022, I had already moved on from those discussions. By that time, we had a pretty good handle on the oil situation.

In the beginning, I remember Amsoil switching their oil recommendation about 3 different times. That's because Stellantis couldn't make up their mind on the spec. Even Pennzoil Platinum changed their formulation at least once during that time, which is why we were seeing the API SP, SN, SN+ adaptations.

 

[Midwestracer]

so whats the consensus on oil nowdays? Ive been having the dealer change my oil but going to swap to castrol edge euro cause it was availble and have a docs oil filter is there a better recommendation at or close to that same budget for oil and filter.

 

[biodiesel]

so whats the consensus on oil nowdays? Ive been having the dealer change my oil but going to swap to castrol edge euro cause it was availble and have a docs oil filter is there a better recommendation at or close to that same budget for oil and filter.

Amsoil MS is still considered the best oil for this platform. We had a 3rd gen EcoDiesel owner log 13,625 miles on Amsoil MS with good results. He sampled at 9,000, 12,000, and 13,500 miles to watch the progression. So far, we haven't found an oil that can last as long as Amsoil MS. Plus, Amsoil MS is a mid-SAPS oil and is better for the DPF. Castrol Edge is a high-SAPS oil, so it's not ideal for the DPF.

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