Opinion: Jeep Made A Massive Mistake By Giving Up On The Gladiator 4xe

[JeepLife175]

I was thinking the same thing we Need a 4xe Gladiator JT.

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[Stan H]

I was thinking the same thing we Need a 4xe Gladiator JT.

 

[Mr Miami]

I don't mean to get into the middle of the diesel/gas debate (even though I know I am) but personally one of the best highway vehicles/SUV that I ever drove was a Nissan Qashqui (called the Nissan Rogue here in the US since Qashqui is named after some tribal people in Iran) with a 1.6L turbo diesel. We cruised in Germany and the Alps (also strict emission regulations in Europe) and I found its sweet spot at about 94 MPH where the sound and vibration was as close to zero as you can get. Then, after about 1,200 miles of driving, it averaged just under 50 MPG ! In fact, it was so quiet, I didn't even know it was a diesel until I opened the fuel filler and it had "Diesel" on it.

Anyway, in our domestic diesel/gas debate, we have to remember, at least in many parts of the country, that diesel, due to the taxes, costs more than regular fuel. Here in Florida, it tends to be about the same as the Mid Range (89) fuel or at times closer to Premium. That equates to somewhere around 15%-20% higher than regular (87) fuel.

So the increase in torque and other benefits are clear but it must be remembered that the cost of fuel is higher.

 

[biodiesel]

Theres thousands of Ram EcoD's out there with well over 100k and 200k miles still going strong, and a lot with 300k and 400k. Same engine.

Tyler just turned 582,000 on his 2015 EcoDiesel. He's on track to turn 600,000 by the end of the year.

 

[Vtur]

Tyler just turned 582,000 on his 2015 EcoDiesel. He's on track to turn 600,000 by the end of the year.

I prefer that gauge summary display over our Gladiator. Don't need to scrolls back and forth

 

[JTdiRtyD]

Sorry, no. I did a cost comparison of fuel/mile my JT vs. real world reports from JTD owners here as far as mileage, and the costs at the pump here.
It costs me the same in fuel for every mile as it does a diesel JT owner. So there's no cost savings at all. The differences in fuel prices in most locations, most of the time, make it a total wash.

No one needs to run those $10/quart oils - the fancy colors or boutique brands - a good quality Pennzoil, Mobil 1, Valvoline, etc. are just as good. So that argument falls flat as well. The oil changes for the diesel are a whole lot more expensive. I've never used anything but recommended oils, and I won't pay higher prices because of a fancy or funky name or "it's the cool thing to do".
So there's that argument failing.

Fuel costs - a wash.
Oil changes for the diesel - way more expensive.

the only real benefit is towing and low-end grunt under loads and how it makes the driver feel warm and fuzzy.
But don't talk about the fuel "savings" - it doesn't exist, and it certainly can't possibly offset other maintenance items.

I didn't say it was cheaper, I said it makes up for it.

Fuel costs are not a wash. It's cheaper to drive diesel even though diesel is higher per gallon UNTIL it gets towards $1/gallon more than 89. But diesel usually hovers around the price of premium and at times falls below. It becomes a larger cost difference in places that tend to be more green or see less diesel use, but on average it's around the price of premium.

If it costs me $50 more for an oil change then so be it, that's not an every day or even an every month thing.

Overall it doesn't really balance itself out until you add in the cost of maintenance. It's cheaper per year on fuel to drive a diesel, but it's about the same per year when factoring in maintenance costs. But to be honest annual costs mean nothing to me, I'd much rather pay less at the pump, or even the same at the pump for that matter, not have to stop and fill up every other town, and have power and torque when I want/need it.

I'd also argue that the diesel is the better route if looking to upsize tires or add weight. A gasser is simply not going to perform as well as a diesel when adding that weight. Thats when you will really start seeing savings at the pump.

 

[Riding with Gladys]

I rented a wrangler 4xe just to evaluate the difference. It came with 0 charge so I paid to charge it up. In a drive from Boston to Portland Maine, it started out with high 20's mileage but once the batteries were exhausted at about 50 miles the milage rapidly dropped and by the time I finished my 2+ hour drive on mostly highway the average milage had dropped to the mid teens. Totally discouraged me. I think the 4xe only makes sense if you truly need a daily commuter and you are keeping it under 30 miles a day. Otherwise you are just toting around a bunch of dead weight in those batteries that diminish your MPG.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I didn't say it was cheaper, I said it makes up for it.

Fuel costs are not a wash. It's cheaper to drive diesel even though diesel is higher per gallon UNTIL it gets towards $1/gallon more than 89. But diesel usually hovers around the price of premium and at times falls below. It becomes a larger cost difference in places that tend to be more green or see less diesel use, but on average it's around the price of premium.

If it costs me $50 more for an oil change then so be it, that's not an every day or even an every month thing.

Overall it doesn't really balance itself out until you add in the cost of maintenance. It's cheaper per year on fuel to drive a diesel, but it's about the same per year when factoring in maintenance costs. But to be honest annual costs mean nothing to me, I'd much rather pay less at the pump, or even the same at the pump for that matter, not have to stop and fill up every other town, and have power and torque when I want/need it.

I'd also argue that the diesel is the better route if looking to upsize tires or add weight. A gasser is simply not going to perform as well as a diesel when adding that weight. Thats when you will really start seeing savings at the pump.

You might note that I'm not the only one saying the fuel costs are a wash.
They are, and I've shown the numbers using real prices and real world mpg posts from diesel owners here in the forum, and my own as well as other Gladiator 3.6 owners' numbers.
I went by multiple gas stations, noted the prices. I averaged their price for diesel as well as ordinary 87 octane gas (where are you getting 89 from? No one needs to run 89 in a 3.6)

What I came up with was a cost per mile for fuel only that was basically the same. The cost to drive the diesel per miles for fuel only vs. the 3.6 washed out. That was using real local station prices and mpg posted by our own forum members.

If you want to make it even better, run U88 in the 3.6 - that makes it cheaper per mile for FUEL ONLY to drive the 3.6
So if that's all we are comparing, FUEL ONLY, per mile, using real numbers posted by forum members, using real prices taken right off the station signs and pumps, then it's either a wash, or perhaps cheaper if you run U88.
My wife filled up for $2.30/gallon yesterday for her JLU in Ankeny, Iowa
I filled up for $2.81 a couple of days ago because I wasn't close to U88 (the station here carries 2 grades of gas, take it or leave it)

Check Biodiesel's post basically suggesting the same thing - fuel cost per mile, taken alone, is pretty much a wash (depending on time of year, where you live and so on since fuel prices change quite a bit with summer blend vs. winter blend gas)

When you get 17-18 mpg (16-17 worst case) with a new MojaveX with power steps, winch, and other accessories (snow plow structure), and were getting 19-21 with an Overland weighted down with steel bumper, winch, power steps, tailgate ladder and A/T tires...................yeah, it's a wash.

 

[biodiesel]

Otherwise you are just toting around a bunch of dead weight in those batteries that diminish your MPG.

The crazy part is having to replace the battery pack in 8 - 10 years which could cost $$$$$$. It's not a vehicle you would want to keep for 10+ years. There's a growing number of complaints already about battery packs needing replaced on the early 4xe models. Quite a few have already sold/traded their 4xe due to avoiding heavy depreciation and the fear of having to replace the battery pack.

 

[MPMB]

The EPA numbers -

JT 3.6L - 17/22
JT 3.0L - 22/28

Current average cost of gas*: $3.15
Current average cost of diesel: $3.75
Avg difference: $.59/gal
Local difference @ my local Costco: $.40/gal

Since gas and diesel have different fuel tanks, let's just say we're doing a 17gal fill up for both, since in my experience it's a rare event that I exceed 17gal (I think I've hit 19gal once).

Price per tank fill-up
Gas: $53.55
Diesel: $63.75

Assume mileage per year is 10,000
Gas: 588 gallons / 454 gallons
Diesel: 454 gallons / 357 gallons

Cost per year in fuel only
Gas: $1852.20 / $1430.1
Diesel: $1702.50 / $1338.75

It's a difference of $2.88/week at most.

Obviously which engine choice is better depends on local fuel markets. When you begin to consider other things like DEF, consumables like tires, etc., I don't think the EcoDiesel is really sitting at an advantage with all things considered.




*regular... waste of money for premium

 

[MPMB]

The crazy part is having to replace the battery pack in 8 - 10 years which could cost $$$$$$. It's not a vehicle you would want to keep for 10+ years. There's a growing number of complaints already about battery packs needing replaced on the early 4xe models. Quite a few have already sold/traded their 4xe due to avoiding heavy depreciation and the fear of having to replace the battery pack.

It seems 4xe are made for the rental industry and the reseller market for the poors.

While Trail Recon's experience with the 4xe is well-known, I only know one other who got rid of their 4xe because it lacked the marketing "promises." Power, efficiency, etc.

 

[JTdiRtyD]

I went by multiple gas stations, noted the prices. I averaged their price for diesel as well as ordinary 87 octane gas (where are you getting 89 from? No one needs to run 89 in a 3.6)

Sorry, I meant 87, not 89.

It's a difference of $2.88/week at most.

Obviously which engine choice is better depends on local fuel markets. When you begin to consider other things like DEF, consumables like tires, etc., I don't think the EcoDiesel is really sitting at an advantage with all things considered.

As I said, overall its pretty much a wash. For roughly the same cost I'd rather have the power and torque. Even if owning a diesel did end up costing more annually, which is going to be negligible if it does, it's simply a better and more enjoyable platform to drive, especially when you start looking into adding weight (and if you want more you can get 25+ mpg out of them).

My biggest issue, which is why I usually find myself getting into this, is the trash talking about diesels, mostly from folks who don't own and have never owned one (EcoD or others), while spreading misinformation saying things like they are so prone to problems that they were discontinued, that they cost a fortune to own, etc.

As I said in my original post, they aren't for everyone. Live in the big city and do short commutes back and forth to Starbucks, don't get a diesel. Long commutes, want a truck to do some truck stuff, or want to add weight while maintaining drivability? The diesel is a great option.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Sorry, I meant 87, not 89.




As I said, overall its pretty much a wash. For roughly the same cost I'd rather have the power and torque. Even if owning a diesel did end up costing more annually, which is going to be negligible if it does, it's simply a better and more enjoyable platform to drive, especially when you start looking into adding weight (and if you want more you can get 25+ mpg out of them).

My biggest issue, which is why I usually find myself getting into this, is the trash talking about diesels, mostly from folks who don't own and have never owned one (EcoD or others), while spreading misinformation saying things like they are so prone to problems that they were discontinued, that they cost a fortune to own, etc.

As I said in my original post, they aren't for everyone. Live in the big city and do short commutes back and forth to Starbucks, don't get a diesel. Long commutes, want a truck to do some truck stuff, or want to add weight while maintaining drivability? The diesel is a great option.

No trash talk here. I've owned diesels ....granted from the last century, but I do try to follow modern engines as well.
It seems to me you realize more advantage beyond the 100,000 mile mark. Then the cost of the engine is spread out- where a gas engine needs "more care", the diesel is made for long ownership.

 

[JTdiRtyD]

No trash talk here. I've owned diesels ....granted from the last century, but I do try to follow modern engines as well.
It seems to me you realize more advantage beyond the 100,000 mile mark. Then the cost of the engine is spread out- where a gas engine needs "more care", the diesel is made for long ownership.

I didn't mean you specifically, nor was it directed at Splenda to whom I was originally replying to. It was more of a generalized statement.

Diesels can absolutely outlast gassers, unfortunately modern day emissions has made that less likely and I think the majority of todays owners aren't mechanically inclined or knowledgeable enough to know how to manage that even with keeping everything intact. Instead they drive them like a gasser, don't maintain them the way they need to be maintained, and then complain when they have issues. Gassers are far more forgiving when it comes to poor maintenance or not performing preventative maintenance.

 

[Stan H]

Tyler just turned 582,000 on his 2015 EcoDiesel. He's on track to turn 600,000 by the end of the year.

Ram 1500?

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