Oracle Flush Mount Tail Lights cracking?

[Rattydude77]

I'm glad to be on this forum almost hit the purchase button.

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[JTR178]

I'm glad to be on this forum almost hit the purchase button.

I hit the purchase button during pre-order. I've had no issues. I suspect for every 1 person bitching or having issues there are 20+ satisfied customers. Not to say Oracle couldn't have handled some of the situations better, particularly the over tightening issue that just surfaced.

 

[RobbertCole]

To address the initial post and any other concerns that were mentioned in this thread please see below. Oracle Lighting prides ourselves on innovative product and excellent customer service. Our team does our best to provide various options for you to choose from and how we can assist you further.

• LEDs out or water ingress in the taillight.
  • Please contact our Customer Relations team at [email protected] with a clear picture of the issue and they will assist with a replacement.
• Missing speed clips, or the clips are broken off.
  • Replacement clips can be sent to you at no additional cost. Please contact our Customer Relations team at [email protected] for assistance.
• Breakage on the posts when transferring over the BSM Sensor.
  • This tends to happen when the screws are being over torqued causing the studs on the taillight to break. To prevent this from happening, we highly suggest installing the taillights using a hand screwdriver or a drill on a low torque setting. We have had multiple customers proceed with the install by simply gluing the sensor cover closed. If this is not something you are comfortable doing, you can contact our Customer Relations team at [email protected] and they can provide an estimate with a special forum member discount applied towards a new set.
• You experienced the plastic with speed clips has broken after installation.
  • We have not seen this concern reported often. Unfortunately, we have only seen the plastic break when the bolts are overtightened. This can cause small stress fractures in the plastic which will cause it to break over time from vibration. If you still have the pieces that broke off, you can epoxy them back to the light. Use of a strong bonding epoxy such as JB weld or panel bond will effectively hold these together.
• “Bulb out” error on dash of JT’s with factory LED taillights.
  • If resistors are not present and signal out error still occurs, you can use a Tazer or JSCAN to set for aftermarket tail-lights - This essentially tells the TIPM to stop checking for the OEM wattage values at the taillights.
  • We also have a solution currently in the works, to add an external adapter to your taillights. Our Customer Relations team will be reaching out to you individually if you have completed our online form here to receive an update. Please ensure you have filled out the form if you are looking for a solution as we are very close to getting this accomplished!

nah, you cant not provide a torque spec, show an install video of a guy using a power tool to install the item and then claim someone over tightened something, especially by hand.

poor design. trash company, trash customer service.

Because of this thread in particular I'll never purchase an Oracle product.

 

[WILDHOBO]

To address the initial post and any other concerns that were mentioned in this thread please see below. Oracle Lighting prides ourselves on innovative product and excellent customer service. Our team does our best to provide various options for you to choose from and how we can assist you further.

• LEDs out or water ingress in the taillight.
  • Please contact our Customer Relations team at [email protected] with a clear picture of the issue and they will assist with a replacement.
• Missing speed clips, or the clips are broken off.
  • Replacement clips can be sent to you at no additional cost. Please contact our Customer Relations team at [email protected] for assistance.
• Breakage on the posts when transferring over the BSM Sensor.
  • This tends to happen when the screws are being over torqued causing the studs on the taillight to break. To prevent this from happening, we highly suggest installing the taillights using a hand screwdriver or a drill on a low torque setting. We have had multiple customers proceed with the install by simply gluing the sensor cover closed. If this is not something you are comfortable doing, you can contact our Customer Relations team at [email protected] and they can provide an estimate with a special forum member discount applied towards a new set.
• You experienced the plastic with speed clips has broken after installation.
  • We have not seen this concern reported often. Unfortunately, we have only seen the plastic break when the bolts are overtightened. This can cause small stress fractures in the plastic which will cause it to break over time from vibration. If you still have the pieces that broke off, you can epoxy them back to the light. Use of a strong bonding epoxy such as JB weld or panel bond will effectively hold these together.
• “Bulb out” error on dash of JT’s with factory LED taillights.
  • If resistors are not present and signal out error still occurs, you can use a Tazer or JSCAN to set for aftermarket tail-lights - This essentially tells the TIPM to stop checking for the OEM wattage values at the taillights.
  • We also have a solution currently in the works, to add an external adapter to your taillights. Our Customer Relations team will be reaching out to you individually if you have completed our online form here to receive an update. Please ensure you have filled out the form if you are looking for a solution as we are very close to getting this accomplished!

Too little, too late. You’ve blamed customers for your products failing. You either blame them for over tightening, or not tightening enough. Yet you can’t provide torque specs. You can’t tell someone they wore the wrong color shirt, but not tell them what the right color is. Your product wasn’t ready for market. You rushed them out with less than great quality control. Then you either blamed Jeep’s wiring, or the customers. And you continue to sell them to people, letting them know they’ll likely have issues if they don’t use a programmer to band aid your design flaw.

 

[Snazz22]

Thank you for this thread. I liked the look of the flush tail lights, I had them on my buy list for the year. I don’t appreciate a company that won’t stand behind its product and just restate conflicting guidance (fully tighten but do not over tighten, what does that mean?). Either it needs to be a better product that can take greater stress, they need to release the torque specs, or they need to change their documentation to reflect the fragility of the part (lightly tighten. If you feel resistance stop).

Worse is arguing that the install, through which the customer followed the instructions (fully tightening) would void the warranty is just laughable. People in communities such as these will seek companies which stand behind their products. There is a reason I use vortex optics, shop at rei, and buy ruger. These companies don’t blame their customer when the product fails, even if the customer contributed to it. They expect their products to hold up to abuse, not break during normal use.

This thread was illuminating (no pun intended), I appreciate it. Saved me a few hundred bucks and a headache.

 

[BAT]

Thank you for this thread. I liked the look of the flush tail lights, I had them on my buy list for the year. I don’t appreciate a company that won’t stand behind its product and just restate conflicting guidance (fully tighten but do not over tighten, what does that mean?). Either it needs to be a better product that can take greater stress, they need to release the torque specs, or they need to change their documentation to reflect the fragility of the part (lightly tighten. If you feel resistance stop).

Worse is arguing that the install, through which the customer followed the instructions (fully tightening) would void the warranty is just laughable. People in communities such as these will seek companies which stand behind their products. There is a reason I use vortex optics, shop at rei, and buy ruger. These companies don’t blame their customer when the product fails, even if the customer contributed to it. They expect their products to hold up to abuse, not break during normal use.

This thread was illuminating (no pun intended), I appreciate it. Saved me a few hundred bucks and a headache.

I'll disagree with you on REI I have had a number of issues with their products and them not backing them up. Its the one reason I steer clear of some of the things they sell. Hell I got a JEEP truck that I bought that the dealership wouldn't back up at first (LOL)

 

[SergioGmz]

Man, It is sad to see all this. I was part of previous thread Aftermarket LED taillights and
Flush Mount Tail Lights .Oracle was one of the only companies or actually the only company that reach to all of us and actually performed a survey of which design we liked. I pushed to get this and waited so long to be released.

Just got my Masters in Engineering and in almost all the courses the example of a successful company was Amazon, and the main reason was due to the out of mind customer service. You got an issue? not problem bro just return the item and here is 10 dll gift card, you know what? keep the item and here is a 15 dll gift card, well at least that have been my experience with them. I am aware we cannot compare Oracle with Amazon, but just take a look at the 2 response they had here, man just say you are sorry of what happen replace the tail lights or money and give a sticker and you will be a way better situation that you are right now. Fill out your data and if this persist, contemplate a corrective action.

The funny thing is that because I bought my Oracles yesterday I was looking of how to reset the LED setup on my Sport S using the JSCAN and I found this thread . I have always have Chinese lights on my Jeeps, this would be my first purchase from an actual proper company so, come on @ORACLElights I want to be sure you got me for at least a year o so haha.

 

[aceisback]

I hit the purchase button during pre-order. I've had no issues. I suspect for every 1 person bitching or having issues there are 20+ satisfied customers. Not to say Oracle couldn't have handled some of the situations better, particularly the over tightening issue that just surfaced.

I truly hope you’re estimate is close. I also got in on the preorder but have yet to receive my Gladiator. I love the appearance of these but am not looking forward to the headache upon install.
We shall see…

 

[sharpsicle]

...
I have always have Chinese lights on my Jeeps, this would be my first purchase from an actual proper company so, come on @ORACLElights I want to be sure you got me for at least a year o so haha.

...
I love the appearance of these but am not looking fort the headache upon install.
We shall see…

Just don't sneeze or breathe too heavily during install or your warranty might be invalidated.

 

[eeTwidget]

Question. Does Oracle actually provide torque specs? If not, there claims of customers over torque are baseless. It’s simply math.

 

[Snazz22]

I'll disagree with you on REI I have had a number of issues with their products and them not backing them up. Its the one reason I steer clear of some of the things they sell. Hell I got a JEEP truck that I bought that the dealership wouldn't back up at first (LOL)

That is unfortunate to hear. I have never had any issue returning anything to them - even things I broke / simply didn’t like. I have heard of people even abusing the accommodating returns policy to buy a new generation gps watch every year. I hope they are not beginning to slip on the customer focus front. I heard they had some new senior leadership so maybe they are slipping - if that is the case I’ll find a new reseller.

Not to get too far off topic, I am just stating that reputation matters in small communities and at this point I am not seeing that reputation being managed well here.

 

[bigcheeshead]

To address the initial post and any other concerns that were mentioned in this thread please see below. Oracle Lighting prides ourselves on innovative product and excellent customer service. Our team does our best to provide various options for you to choose from and how we can assist you further.

• LEDs out or water ingress in the taillight.
  • Please contact our Customer Relations team at [email protected] with a clear picture of the issue and they will assist with a replacement.
• Missing speed clips, or the clips are broken off.
  • Replacement clips can be sent to you at no additional cost. Please contact our Customer Relations team at [email protected] for assistance.
• Breakage on the posts when transferring over the BSM Sensor.
  • This tends to happen when the screws are being over torqued causing the studs on the taillight to break. To prevent this from happening, we highly suggest installing the taillights using a hand screwdriver or a drill on a low torque setting. We have had multiple customers proceed with the install by simply gluing the sensor cover closed. If this is not something you are comfortable doing, you can contact our Customer Relations team at [email protected] and they can provide an estimate with a special forum member discount applied towards a new set.
• You experienced the plastic with speed clips has broken after installation.
  • We have not seen this concern reported often. Unfortunately, we have only seen the plastic break when the bolts are overtightened. This can cause small stress fractures in the plastic which will cause it to break over time from vibration. If you still have the pieces that broke off, you can epoxy them back to the light. Use of a strong bonding epoxy such as JB weld or panel bond will effectively hold these together.
• “Bulb out” error on dash of JT’s with factory LED taillights.
  • If resistors are not present and signal out error still occurs, you can use a Tazer or JSCAN to set for aftermarket tail-lights - This essentially tells the TIPM to stop checking for the OEM wattage values at the taillights.
  • We also have a solution currently in the works, to add an external adapter to your taillights. Our Customer Relations team will be reaching out to you individually if you have completed our online form here to receive an update. Please ensure you have filled out the form if you are looking for a solution as we are very close to getting this accomplished!

I do agree with you @ORACLElights. This is not a manufacturing defect. Rather it’s either a design flaw OR a brilliantly engineered way to ensure recurring revenue stream by charging your customers for replacement of these lights years into the future.

This is completely contradictory to Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act stating: “such warrantor must as a minimum remedy such consumer product within a reasonable time and without charge, in the case of a defect, malfunction, or failure to conform with such written warranty;”

Since you are unable to provide torquing specs or a scientific explanation behind this problem, I’ve decided to take a stab at it. The walls of the posts are only 1.3 mm think and are not reinforced or connected to anything on the sides. That’s right, 1.3 mm of thin plastic is all that’s holding the 5+ pound lights to the body of the Jeep through high speeds and vibrations of offroad. On top of that, the lights are not flush with the body leaving a huge gap for the wind to get inside and rattle the entire assembly. Over torquing, under torquing or just right torquing has nothing to do with it! In comparison, walls on OEM lights are over 5 mm thick and connected to the rest of the lights assembly on all sides for a nearly indestructible hold.

Good luck to those that have purchased these lights. It’s not a matter of IF but WHEN you will encounter the same issue.

 

[JP_Oracle]

Too little, too late. You’ve blamed customers for your products failing. You either blame them for over tightening, or not tightening enough. Yet you can’t provide torque specs. You can’t tell someone they wore the wrong color shirt, but not tell them what the right color is. Your product wasn’t ready for market. You rushed them out with less than great quality control. Then you either blamed Jeep’s wiring, or the customers. And you continue to sell them to people, letting them know they’ll likely have issues if they don’t use a programmer to band aid your design flaw.

I do agree with you @ORACLElights. This is not a manufacturing defect. Rather it’s either a design flaw OR a brilliantly engineered way to ensure recurring revenue stream by charging your customers for replacement of these lights years into the future.

This is completely contradictory to Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act stating: “such warrantor must as a minimum remedy such consumer product within a reasonable time and without charge, in the case of a defect, malfunction, or failure to conform with such written warranty;”

Since you are unable to provide torquing specs or a scientific explanation behind this problem, I’ve decided to take a stab at it. The walls of the posts are only 1.3 mm think and are not reinforced or connected to anything on the sides. That’s right, 1.3 mm of thin plastic is all that’s holding the 5+ pound lights to the body of the Jeep through high speeds and vibrations of offroad. On top of that, the lights are not flush with the body leaving a huge gap for the wind to get inside and rattle the entire assembly. Over torquing, under torquing or just right torquing has nothing to do with it! In comparison, walls on OEM lights are over 5 mm thick and connected to the rest of the lights assembly on all sides for a nearly indestructible hold.

Good luck to those that have purchased these lights. It’s not a matter of IF but WHEN you will encounter the same issue.

Listen guys, we understand that these instances are very difficult to navigate. Especially when there has only been less than a handful of people who have had this happen out of the several THOUSAND sets that have been sold to date.

We are making these decisions based on basic facts we know, given we cannot be present when these are installed on your truck. If you overtighten bolts into plastic, plastic will crack. That's it.

There are no defects here. If there was a defect we could point to, we'd be quick to replace in any instance, as we have been this entire time for other issues.

We have done to the extent of what we can for those handful of customers including offering a replacement for a heavily discounted price (One we actually take a loss on - Not "Gain revenue") and even guidance on how to repair it.

If this has happened for your tails and you need help, PM me. I will do what I can with our team to get you accommodated.

Cheers

 

[ilovebikes99]

There are engineers on this forum. It appears this is not a validated design.

 

[WILDHOBO]

Listen guys, we understand that these instances are very difficult to navigate. Especially when there has only been less than a handful of people who have had this happen out of the several THOUSAND sets that have been sold to date.

We are making these decisions based on basic facts we know, given we cannot be present when these are installed on your truck. If you overtighten bolts into plastic, plastic will crack. That's it.

There are no defects here. If there was a defect we could point to, we'd be quick to replace in any instance, as we have been this entire time for other issues.

We have done to the extent of what we can for those handful of customers including offering a replacement for a heavily discounted price (One we actually take a loss on - Not "Gain revenue") and even guidance on how to repair it.

If this has happened for your tails and you need help, PM me. I will do what I can with our team to get you accommodated.

Cheers

The more you try to staunchly defend your poor engineering, customer service, and documentation, the more customers you’ll lose, or never get in the first place. Apologies go a long way, but I guess that’s not the Oracle way.

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