Pentastar power increase

[Beungood]

I wonder though also if some engineers have looked into it and maybe deemed the engine is not capable of producing more without serious consequences like a shortened life or critical failure. Maybe the internal components or even engine casting itself is not suitable for more stress and strain?

after watching a breakdown video of the motor and its plastic internals I think this may be an accurate assessment.

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[Flyin6]

I would agree with this too. No better configuration than factory.

I also think this is becoming a sunk-cost fallacy. Because of how much was spent on the truck with the wrong engine, a move can no longer be justified in his mind to one with the right one. Until that gets resolved, the frustrations will probably continue.

Sunk cost fallacy: Guilty
But water over the dam.
Sometimes you just have to make the best of what you have or where you find yourself.
As soldiers, we learned to always improve our fighting positions...Not to abandon them
Now, having survived all that, I am not sure that is a valid philosophy, but nonetheless remains engrained.

 

[Wolf Island Diver]

LMAO. It's fun to say incendiary and hyperbolic things. It's more fun when their mostly true...

The VM Motori based diesels are excellent but expensive, difficult to attain, and soon to be fully orphaned. This is not a judgment on the engine but rather a product on the guberment gods we choose to worship and their unelected administrative states bestowed with power and immunity to perform all manner of evildoing and reprobate activities.

I don’t think it’s hyperbolic or incendiary to say people bolt lots of trash to their vehicles. There’s a bunch of videos on YouTube of people putting their vehicle on a dyno after doing a cat back and seeing, 1-5 hp gains. You can see the cognitive dissonance as they declare triumphantly, that it did in fact gain HP. Yeah about as much a fart. There’s people posting videos of dyno runs after replacing that little resonator pipe on the ecodiesel, ?. It doesn’t even change the sound. I’ve had a K&N filter. The logical part of my brain said “this is a waste” and yet…. And then the pos wasn’t made right and didn’t seal in the air box. The idea that you can bolt on power or mileage is a powerful one. I just wanted “to save of air filters.” By buying junk that….um…..requires additional work to clean and oil. 75%+ of the automotive aftermarket is overstated promises at best and pure snake oil at worst. And yet people swear by these things. It’s an entire economy powered by cognitive biases, mostly confirmation bias.

My ownership of the Ecodiesel doesn’t really negate that point. Now maybe if I believed stupidly that this powertrain represented some kind of long term cost savings or less headache. Then, yes it would be the pot and kettle. The ecodiesel is a potential pita. So far mines been fine other than dealing with Jeeps recall shenanigans. But it doesn’t save you money. It’s not quite going to be orphaned but close. I bought it for the driving dynamics, range and mileage knowing and accepting full well I was paying a premium for fuel, maintainable and cost of repair. But that’s sort of like the same thing as an engine swap. It’s also like an engine swap in that it’s an a actual real way to realize higher performance from the vehicle as opposed to experimenting on an engine most tuners don’t have any interest in beyond selling false promises and negligible increases. Personally though, like a lot of people here I think the Pentastar is fine just the way it is.

Little story time:

Back in the 90s we liked to bolt purple anodized shit to our mountain bikes to save weight. Aluminum spoke nipples that crack, titanium seat posts that shatter and tear open your ballsack ( I know a guy that happened to). Titanium water bottle bolts. Ringlé hubs, etc. A good friend of mine told me something I never have forgotten. Coincidentally he tuned GM muscle cars. He said, “just take a big shit before you go for a ride. That’ll save you at least a half pound of weight.”

 

[sharpsicle]

Sunk cost fallacy: Guilty
But water over the dam.
Sometimes you just have to make the best of what you have or where you find yourself.
As soldiers, we learned to always improve our fighting positions...Not to abandon them
Now, having survived all that, I am not sure that is a valid philosophy, but nonetheless remains engrained.

Tactical retreat?

 

[Flyin6]

Tactical retreat?

More like "Run like hell"

 

[sharpsicle]

More like "Run like hell"

No, not what I'm getting at.

I'm saying "tactical retreat" or "tactical withdrawal" is a very real thing in the military. And it could be applied here as well. Your military background shouldn't be putting the blinders on you like this.

 

[Wolf Island Diver]

I wouldn’t swap in a motor that is available from the factory. Too much work and it probably won’t turn out as good as one that is factory built.

My only slight disagreement if it’s even that, is that the 392 package, even if you eliminate the bigger tires, etc., is still $20k more than the 3.6. The same upgrade on the Ram costs $3k. That feels like a slap in the face to Jeep people. Like corporate said “hey let’s pump the Jeep morons for more profit” or “let’s make a Jeep for YouTube influencers.” But I wouldn’t get a JL and then immediately put a crate engine in it. I’d get the 392 with a warranty and probably better integration and higher resale, etc. But factory crate engine pricing kinda sucks from Jeep.

 

[Belcher24256]

Some may argue, however, I feel strongly that the Pentastar needs a power increase. More to the point, for those of us (Many I suspect) who want to have the opportunity to add some power if we determine we have a need or desire for such.

Adding a Hemi which costs as much as another Gladiator is NOT the answer. In my opinion, it is stupidly expensive and tosses out all the good features of the V6 that we already enjoy. Things like less weight and better gas mileage are tossed right out the window. Further, how many people have an extra $40-$45K to do a Hemi swap, when for $8K-$10K one could find another 100HP and be happy? I bet that there is a huge number of us who would go for something that would add 50-75 HP that was reasonably priced.

I have been writing back and forth with Livernois Performance about what can be done for the owners of the -5 computer in terms of increasing power.

Here is a copy of my last correspondence:


Hunter,

A couple thousand is expensive to mill two V6 cyl heads, but I also appreciate that these are not LS/LT castings where everyone and his brother have developed a CNC profile.

The Hemi is great, and I would buy it in a skinny second if it didn't cost as much as a new Gladiator.

No, the key is to develop power from the existing power plant. And there are a million of us who won't spring for a 45K Hemi but would easily pay $8K blower or turbo. I think you guys are missing the message here. The key and the smartest thing to do is to crack the code and be able to program this new computer. Heck maybe even find a way to replace the spec-5 computer with the older spec-2 unit that would open the door to options. Honestly, I can't understand why there is no interest in programming the newer computer.

I tune my supercharged Suburban myself with HP tuners, and I taught myself from scratch how to do that. If it were not pure rocket science to crack the code in the new Mopar computer, I'd dive into it headfirst. Then I'd sell you folks tuning rights and watch my bank account swell to bursting.

I am hearing you say you probably have no CNC programs for the heads. You didn't even mention cams, so my bet is you folks have not looked at that either. Heck, Maserati uses this engine as well and should have a bunch of more aggressive cam profiles. The bottom line is that it seems you folks do not have much interest in this motor. That is not a harsh nor critical observation, just the conclusion that I draw from your and others' responses and after looking over your website.

I sincerely wish it was other, and that you folks had the vision to see this huge market which is essentially ignored. Thanks for the response...

There is a similar thread on the wrangler forum related to the 3.6, worth a read in my opinion if you have a Pentastar.
https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/threads/future-of-v6-pentastar.120546/page-2

 

[Flyin6]

No, not what I'm getting at.

I'm saying "tactical retreat" is a very real thing in the military. And it could be applied here as well. Your military background shouldn't be putting the blinders on you like this.

It isn't
Many other factors in play
Moving from rural suburbia to our farm
Big $$ commitment
So for the moment, I have restrictions
That
will relax in time.
We'll take a look at things in the 1.5-2 year point. By then we may have solved for tuning and all this goes away and I become a happy camper (Which for the most part I already am)

 

[Flyin6]

There is a similar thread on the wrangler forum related to the 3.6, worth a read in my opinion if you have a Pentastar.

Link??

 

[Lunentucker]

https://rippmods.com/products/ripp-high-performance-coil-packs

 

[Flyin6]

My only slight disagreement if it’s even that, is that the 392 package, even if you eliminate the bigger tires, etc., is still $20k more than the 3.6. The same upgrade on the Ram costs $3k. That feels like a slap in the face to Jeep people. Like corporate said “hey let’s pump the Jeep morons for more profit” or “let’s make a Jeep for YouTube influencers.” But I wouldn’t get a JL and then immediately put a crate engine in it. I’d get the 392 with a warranty and probably better integration and higher resale, etc. But factory crate engine pricing kinda sucks from Jeep.

-Concur
The price out of the gate for their engines in my opinion is prohibitively expensive. Add to that the ever-increasing labor costs and man, it's just not all that attainable...swapping engines, that is.

 

[Flyin6]

https://rippmods.com/products/ripp-high-performance-coil-packs

Got em

 

[Belcher24256]

Link??

Hit post too quick so I edited and added it.

 

[Flyin6]

Hit post too quick so I edited and added it.

Danke'

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