Relocation Brackets vs Long Control Arms

[chorky]

them.. pain in the ass to get the upper bolts in, but

The upper bolts of the bracket? Or the new additional bolt that Metal Cloak has? I wouldn't think the upper bolt would be any more difficult than doing a control arm lift.

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[chorky]

Chiming back in that I added the rear upper control arm brackets from TF. A couple of notes... 7/16 is not a common drill bit size and I got caught in my garage with my upper control arm removed and only had a 3/8 or 1/2 drill bit (which by the way is just a C hair too small (1/16 of course)). So I installed everything except the small outside bolt, not integral and will get to it later. Second is TF torque specs call for a lb ft and then degreee or a range. I ended up using the MOPAR factory specs for UCA/LCA (185lbft axle side 200lbft frame side). Haven't gotten more than a test drive in so seat of the pants feels fine, no substantial difference yet (will report back with more miles). I DID notice my pinion angle looks almost spot on neutral (centered?) at ride height, much like the front does. I suspect I'll notice ride quality over bumps at speed.

To this general conversation of using geo brackets my truck is my DD and weekend warrior. By that I mean it takes me to work everyday, hauls mulch and general household projects, tows our teardrop trailer across country, and hits trails in places like Moab and Ouray every year. I would not give up the drivability of my truck with geo brackets for an additional inch of clearance off road. It is very capable as is, not as capable as possible, but enough for me. The stock controls arms work, are quiet, and no maintenance. They are also cheap and plentiful to replace if ever necessary. FWIW I'm heading to Moab in a couple weeks for EJS. Towing the teardrop, wheeling trails rated 5, 6, 6, 7, and then towing the teardrop home (1,300 miles 1 way). I'll have some pretty extensive experience, although bias to my preference, of the AEV lift, geo brackets, ride comfort while towing, and offroad capability after that.

@chorky @Lunentucker

Right on thanks for sharing. I figured as much with the pinion angle - sure it doesn't affect drivability on the highway probably at all but I do think it will reduce wear of the drive shaft joint - what's it called again? Anyway, some sort of cross between U-joint and CV axle I think.

So...I put in an order this morning

 

[JT1]

The upper bolts of the bracket? Or the new additional bolt that Metal Cloak has? I wouldn't think the upper bolt would be any more difficult than doing a control arm lift.

I thought the same thing.. but on mine at least where I expected the geo brackets to sit "flush" in the UCA pocket, to get them lined up they were anything but. The first one took me an hour to figure out. The second one took 10 minutes.

Luckily there's a big hole in the frame right there and I could get the bolt started and leave it loose and then use the LCA frame bolt to suck it up and get it in the right spot. Then just back and forth until you get to torque spec.

 

[Lunentucker]

Chiming back in that I added the rear upper control arm brackets from TF. A couple of notes... 7/16 is not a common drill bit size and I got caught in my garage with my upper control arm removed and only had a 3/8 or 1/2 drill bit (which by the way is just a C hair too small (1/16 of course)). So I installed everything except the small outside bolt, not integral and will get to it later. Second is TF torque specs call for a lb ft and then degreee or a range. I ended up using the MOPAR factory specs for UCA/LCA (185lbft axle side 200lbft frame side). Haven't gotten more than a test drive in so seat of the pants feels fine, no substantial difference yet (will report back with more miles). I DID notice my pinion angle looks almost spot on neutral (centered?) at ride height, much like the front does. I suspect I'll notice ride quality over bumps at speed.

To this general conversation of using geo brackets my truck is my DD and weekend warrior. By that I mean it takes me to work everyday, hauls mulch and general household projects, tows our teardrop trailer across country, and hits trails in places like Moab and Ouray every year. I would not give up the drivability of my truck with geo brackets for an additional inch of clearance off road. It is very capable as is, not as capable as possible, but enough for me. The stock controls arms work, are quiet, and no maintenance. They are also cheap and plentiful to replace if ever necessary. FWIW I'm heading to Moab in a couple weeks for EJS. Towing the teardrop, wheeling trails rated 5, 6, 6, 7, and then towing the teardrop home (1,300 miles 1 way). I'll have some pretty extensive experience, although bias to my preference, of the AEV lift, geo brackets, ride comfort while towing, and offroad capability after that.

@chorky @Lunentucker

Mine are on the way. I actually thought about that bit size last night as I was counting sheep, and you just reminded me. ?

 

[chorky]

Parts ordered. more details in build thread to not clog this one up.

 

[chorky]

@RodRecket - tagging you because JT1 made the quoted post below on my build thread. Something to consider and look into - I didn't even think about this honestly, but certainly see how with addition of the brackets it could be even worse if they unseat with just the standard Bilsteins and without the brackets.

@Lunentucker - you as well since.

@JT1 thank you for bringing this up cause if it does unseat the springs that certainly would be an issue. ?

Chiming back in that I added the rear upper control arm brackets from TF. A couple of notes... 7/16 is not a common drill bit size and I got caught in my garage with my upper control arm removed and only had a 3/8 or 1/2 drill bit (which by the way is just a C hair too small (1/16 of course)). So I installed everything except the small outside bolt, not integral and will get to it later. Second is TF torque specs call for a lb ft and then degreee or a range. I ended up using the MOPAR factory specs for UCA/LCA (185lbft axle side 200lbft frame side). Haven't gotten more than a test drive in so seat of the pants feels fine, no substantial difference yet (will report back with more miles). I DID notice my pinion angle looks almost spot on neutral (centered?) at ride height, much like the front does. I suspect I'll notice ride quality over bumps at speed.

To this general conversation of using geo brackets my truck is my DD and weekend warrior. By that I mean it takes me to work everyday, hauls mulch and general household projects, tows our teardrop trailer across country, and hits trails in places like Moab and Ouray every year. I would not give up the drivability of my truck with geo brackets for an additional inch of clearance off road. It is very capable as is, not as capable as possible, but enough for me. The stock controls arms work, are quiet, and no maintenance. They are also cheap and plentiful to replace if ever necessary. FWIW I'm heading to Moab in a couple weeks for EJS. Towing the teardrop, wheeling trails rated 5, 6, 6, 7, and then towing the teardrop home (1,300 miles 1 way). I'll have some pretty extensive experience, although bias to my preference, of the AEV lift, geo brackets, ride comfort while towing, and offroad capability after that.

@chorky @Lunentucker

I'm on 3.5" clayton springs and I have full droop + on the factory front brake lines. You won't need the grimm ones unless you just want spares.

On the rear, I can't remember if the AEV kit with the bilsteins will allow enough rear droop to unseat your coil springs. If it does, get some limiting straps, and you have a great place to mount them on the terraflex brackets.

Parts list looks awesome! Congrats.

Does that AEV kit include a rear trackbar relo bracket? If it does, good. It makes a huge difference in the way the rear of the truck behaves on-road.

 

[Wheelin98TJ]

Do any guys with relocation brackets have caster measurements?

For the brackets that have multiple holes, does anyone know the caster change with each hole?

There’s some good info in here. I’ve never used brackets, but I’m intrigued since I don’t wheel these expensive Jeeps much anymore.

 

[Lunentucker]

Do any guys with relocation brackets have caster measurements?

For the brackets that have multiple holes, does anyone know the caster change with each hole?

There’s some good info in here. I’ve never used brackets, but I’m intrigued since I don’t wheel these expensive Jeeps much anymore.

I've attempted to somewhat crudely measure mine and it seems to be around 7.5 in the lowest hole on the rancho brackets. I read the angle of the axis of the ball joints and then subtracted the slight angle of my garage floor.
That's with tires on the ground, which makes reading that axis angle challenging.
There is a flat on the front of every axle, but I wasn't sure if that's a valid reference point.

Guessing that the second hole, as recommended for my 2 inch lift, puts the caster back in spec, I'd expect each hole drop to yield about +1 degree or so.

 

[Lunentucker]

This guy's is pretty good on his alignment knowledge. I'll forgive him for saying that adjustable control arms is the ONLY way to correct caster.

 

[sunrise089]

@Lunentucker Thanks for this thread. I confess it’s hard to parse out the core bracket vs arm issue as it seems like both sides are happy with their choices. But that’s a reader problem not a poster problem.

One question though: am I correct that you’re only measuring 10.5” clearance on your Mojave with 35s? That’s well under the advertised spec even on 33s…but having never measured perhaps the Jeep marketing people are being typical guys and adding a few inches??

 

[Lunentucker]

@Lunentucker Thanks for this thread. I confess it’s hard to parse out the core bracket vs arm issue as it seems like both sides are happy with their choices. But that’s a reader problem not a poster problem.

One question though: am I correct that you’re only measuring 10.5” clearance on your Mojave with 35s? That’s well under the advertised spec even on 33s…but having never measured perhaps the Jeep marketing people are being typical guys and adding a few inches??

Look closely. The ruler body is +3 inches

 

[RodRecket]

Do any guys with relocation brackets have caster measurements?

For the brackets that have multiple holes, does anyone know the caster change with each hole?

There’s some good info in here. I’ve never used brackets, but I’m intrigued since I don’t wheel these expensive Jeeps much anymore.

I have not gotten an alignment on my current truck (AEV JT370 Rubi) but I experimented on my old JT Sport. That had a Mopar 2" lift and a few different LCA/Geo bracket combos:

Rancho bracket middle hole/stock length LCA ~ 6.5/6.6
Rancho bracket middle hole/mopar extended length LCA ~ 7.5/7.6
AEV brackets (caster block set for 2" lift)/stock LCAs ~6.3/6.4

Each combo had a good seat of the pants feel, but the AEV bracket and stock length LCA gave me a pretty much stock caster number and rode well.

 

[RodRecket]

@RodRecket - tagging you because JT1 made the quoted post below on my build thread. Something to consider and look into - I didn't even think about this honestly, but certainly see how with addition of the brackets it could be even worse if they unseat with just the standard Bilsteins and without the brackets.

@Lunentucker - you as well since.

@JT1 thank you for bringing this up cause if it does unseat the springs that certainly would be an issue. ?

I thought of this a little bit, it's a legit consideration and will probably equal more money spent on the JT. The coils are at least dual rate so it's unlikely they would unseat. I guess I don't know what is limiting the down travel for the rear axle. Could be the shocks or sway bar? I def want to keep my eye on the brake lines as well. I will have to do some research and watch the rear suspension on the trail. I don't do any speed stuff or whoops. Most of my offroading is rocks with one tire up and the other down.

 

[JT1]

I thought of this a little bit, it's a legit consideration and will probably equal more money spent on the JT. The coils are at least dual rate so it's unlikely they would unseat. I guess I don't know what is limiting the down travel for the rear axle. Could be the shocks or sway bar? I def want to keep my eye on the brake lines as well. I will have to do some research and watch the rear suspension on the trail. I don't do any speed stuff or whoops. Most of my offroading is rocks with one tire up and the other down.

That would be the easiest way to unseat a coil. Full rear droop should only happen on whoops or if the truck is airborne.

 

[chorky]

I thought of this a little bit, it's a legit consideration and will probably equal more money spent on the JT. The coils are at least dual rate so it's unlikely they would unseat. I guess I don't know what is limiting the down travel for the rear axle. Could be the shocks or sway bar? I def want to keep my eye on the brake lines as well. I will have to do some research and watch the rear suspension on the trail. I don't do any speed stuff or whoops. Most of my offroading is rocks with one tire up and the other down.

typically it is the shocks that limit down travel, well thst combined with less flexible OEM rubber bushings. I know when I didnthe suspension on my TJ i considered limit straps but decided not to as I didnt want to weld the frame. But on my TJ the shocks are the likiting factor. So that means if I ever did some high speedstuff where a wheel came off the ground or did maximum droop fast it would slam the inside of the shock piston against the bottom of the shock - which is bad. But since thats not my MO I dont worry about it much. Now coil springs being unseated is a whole different situation that could happen at low speed.

could you just jack up the rear by bumper or frame and let the axle hang to see what happens? Seems like doing that before hitting trails might be a safer bet just to be sure

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