Simple warranty, made difficult by the dealer/Chrysler

[Bonanza]

My tailgate brake light went out. Easy to diagnose, easy to fix. Sadly, reality is not what it seems.

Called my dealer. I first have to make an appointment, of which there is none available for days. Then I have to drop it off. Then it needs to be diagnosed. Then it needs to have parts ordered. No courtesy vehicles are provided. All of this for a part linked to safety... I have already explained that the connector gets 12 volts when the brake pedal is pressed, but the light doesn't come on. All I need is a replacement part and I'd be on my way. Nope. I have to go through the whole process which is going to cost me more than the taillight is worth. Now I just ordered the part which should have been covered under warranty, all because the process is so onerous, so taxing, and so unfriendly.

I offered to have the whole tailgate disassembled, light out, and have a tech simply plug it in if that's what had to happen, but even then, no. I had the part number ready. Basically I did all of the work to make it easy, but even then it can't be easy.

@JeepCares This sucks.

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[Puch]

My tailgate brake light went out. Easy to diagnose, easy to fix. Sadly, reality is not what it seems.

Called my dealer. I first have to make an appointment, of which there is none available for days. Then I have to drop it off. Then it needs to be diagnosed. Then it needs to have parts ordered. No courtesy vehicles are provided. All of this for a part linked to safety... I have already explained that the connector gets 12 volts when the brake pedal is pressed, but the light doesn't come on. All I need is a replacement part and I'd be on my way. Nope. I have to go through the whole process which is going to cost me more than the taillight is worth. Now I just ordered the part which should have been covered under warranty, all because the process is so onerous, so taxing, and so unfriendly.

I offered to have the whole tailgate disassembled, light out, and have a tech simply plug it in if that's what had to happen, but even then, no. I had the part number ready. Basically I did all of the work to make it easy, but even then it can't be easy.

@JeepCares This sucks.

I’ve come to the conclusion that either dealerships have completely given up on customer satisfaction and/or they hire completely unqualified and incompetent people for less pay. Like you, I had to “go through the process” every time. I think we are forced to do this because the manufacturer knows the people working on the vehicles are not competent. Most of them.
Here’s my last 3 visits to dealerships.
1. Mustang gets a recall for a bad backup camera. Nothing wrong with it, but why wait? Car comes back with non working camera. 4 weeks to make it work.
2. 1st dealership - Jeep techs can’t hear a leaking exhaust gasket and diagnose it as needing the right back replaced.
3. 2nd dealership-diagnosis the same Jeep with a misfire and flashes it for a TSB. No engine light was on. Same dealership aggress to replace the exhaust gasket after I take them by the hand and have them listen to the Jeep with me and insist it’s the gasket. Took two weeks to get this right.
It’s pretty sad how much of our time these places wast.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

My tailgate brake light went out. Easy to diagnose, easy to fix. Sadly, reality is not what it seems.

Called my dealer. I first have to make an appointment, of which there is none available for days. Then I have to drop it off. Then it needs to be diagnosed. Then it needs to have parts ordered. No courtesy vehicles are provided. All of this for a part linked to safety... I have already explained that the connector gets 12 volts when the brake pedal is pressed, but the light doesn't come on. All I need is a replacement part and I'd be on my way. Nope. I have to go through the whole process which is going to cost me more than the taillight is worth. Now I just ordered the part which should have been covered under warranty, all because the process is so onerous, so taxing, and so unfriendly.

I offered to have the whole tailgate disassembled, light out, and have a tech simply plug it in if that's what had to happen, but even then, no. I had the part number ready. Basically I did all of the work to make it easy, but even then it can't be easy.

@JeepCares This sucks.

It's how it is. To replace a part under warranty and get REIMBURSED, they MUST follow specific procedures. For you to help can't be a part of that. They must diagnose it, show what they did to diagnose it.
They can't take your word for it - what if you were wrong? What if everyone Joe and Joann went in and said "I know what's wrong, just replace this part"?
And you know many would be wrong.......... they can't do it and to expect it is not understanding all sides of the business, and the rules from FCA.
I just got another few bulletins where FCA is telling dealers to stop replacing parts x, y or z because they are finding no issues with the parts (and likely another second part was replaced later that was the real cause)
One example is the ambient outside air temperature sensor - dealers have been replacing the whole mirror and billing FCA for the parts and labor. The sensor is a tiny part in the bottom of the mirror - a fraction of the cost and only moments to replace compared to tearing into the door to replace the whole mirror.

You are not guaranteed any loaner or rental either - people seem to believe that's a given.
No one promised that!

I really don't get it - make the darned appointment, leave it with them, BE FRIENDLY and let them do their work according to how it needs to be done (and according to FCA processes) and move on.

 

[Bonanza]

It's how it is. To replace a part under warranty and get REIMBURSED, they MUST follow specific procedures. For you to help can't be a part of that. They must diagnose it, show what they did to diagnose it.
They can't take your word for it - what if you were wrong? What if everyone Joe and Joann went in and said "I know what's wrong, just replace this part"?
And you know many would be wrong.......... they can't do it and to expect it is not understanding all sides of the business, and the rules from FCA.
I just got another few bulletins where FCA is telling dealers to stop replacing parts x, y or z because they are finding no issues with the parts (and likely another second part was replaced later that was the real cause)
One example is the ambient outside air temperature sensor - dealers have been replacing the whole mirror and billing FCA for the parts and labor. The sensor is a tiny part in the bottom of the mirror - a fraction of the cost and only moments to replace compared to tearing into the door to replace the whole mirror.

You are not guaranteed any loaner or rental either - people seem to believe that's a given.
No one promised that!

Right. No one promised anything, other than replacing bad parts for XXXXX miles. Indeed that was what I paid for. If I bring in a part that can be tested as easily as providing 12v power source, and it clearly came off my vehicle, then it should be replaced under warranty. On the spot. I can be proven wrong by having a 12v power supplied to the lamp. If it turned on, then I'd toss em the keys and admit I was wrong. But that isn't the case.

I went out of MY way to make things easier, but I received no reciprocal act. And I'm the customer. That's the problem.

 

[Hootbro]

It is the corporate warranty process more than anything. They cannot order a part for warranty replacement without a documented service ticket to "verify" and order the part against the ticket. Then there is the second visit to install. It also gives the dealer the ability to warranty bill for both visits.

 

[dcmdon]

It's how it is. To replace a part under warranty and get REIMBURSED, they MUST follow specific procedures. For you to help can't be a part of that. They must diagnose it, show what they did to diagnose it.
They can't take your word for it - what if you were wrong? What if everyone Joe and Joann went in and said "I know what's wrong, just replace this part"?
And you know many would be wrong.......... they can't do it and to expect it is not understanding all sides of the business, and the rules from FCA.
I just got another few bulletins where FCA is telling dealers to stop replacing parts x, y or z because they are finding no issues with the parts (and likely another second part was replaced later that was the real cause)
One example is the ambient outside air temperature sensor - dealers have been replacing the whole mirror and billing FCA for the parts and labor. The sensor is a tiny part in the bottom of the mirror - a fraction of the cost and only moments to replace compared to tearing into the door to replace the whole mirror.

You are not guaranteed any loaner or rental either - people seem to believe that's a given.
No one promised that!

I really don't get it - make the darned appointment, leave it with them, BE FRIENDLY and let them do their work according to how it needs to be done (and according to FCA processes) and move on.

The process is much harder than it has to be.

At the dealer I worked at we would have had the owner just pull up outside. Someone would stick a fluke meter in the harness at the light. Confirm 12v, write up an RO and send the customer on his way. With that RO we could order a replacement.

We could probably get them in for simple diagnostics on the same day. If we didn't get 12v at the connector, then an appointment would need to be made for some further diagnostics.

But either way, if a customer called and said he had 12v at the connector, I'd have him come in and we'd check it in 3 minutes and send him on his way while we waited for the part.

I understand the process. I understand that the dealer must follow the process to get reimbursed for time and materials.

But there seems to be absolutely no desire to actually please the customer at modern FCA dealers.

Go into a Benz, Volvo, Lexus or even a Hyundai dealer and see how you are treated. Also note that you are given a loaner or a ride home as part of the service. Many of the cars sold by these "luxury" brands cost significantly less than an optioned up Gladiator or Grand Cherokee.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

The process is much harder than it has to be.

At the dealer I worked at we would have had the owner just pull up outside. Someone would stick a fluke meter in the harness at the light. Confirm 12v, write up an RO and send the customer on his way. With that RO we could order a replacement.

We could probably get them in for simple diagnostics on the same day. If we didn't get 12v at the connector, then an appointment would need to be made for some further diagnostics.

But either way, if a customer called and said he had 12v at the connector, I'd have him come in and we'd check it in 3 minutes and send him on his way while we waited for the part.

I understand the process. I understand that the dealer must follow the process to get reimbursed for time and materials.

But there seems to be absolutely no desire to actually please the customer at modern FCA dealers.

Go into a Benz, Volvo, Lexus or even a Hyundai dealer and see how you are treated. Also note that you are given a loaner or a ride home as part of the service. Many of the cars sold by these "luxury" brands cost significantly less than an optioned up Gladiator or Grand Cherokee.

You must have had staff standing around with little to do if they could take apart a panel, remove a connection and spend time verifying......... you don't check in 3 minutes. And do you pull someone off of another job to go do that - then find that it takes 30 minutes because of a cross-threaded screw (by the customer)?
First come, first served is how we had to operate. There was no time to stand around and you didn't pull anyone off a job where that customer had been waiting a week to get in.
We had too many "Self-diagnose" and end up wrong - and then what? You can't walk away once you started.
Naw, sorry - first come, first served. It's not life or death, it's a light and I've never worked in a shop that allowed a customer's "self-diagnoses" to determine what we did. Got into too much trouble that way. Leave it and we'll check it out. Even in my shop now I tell people don't even bother telling what you think it is (because I know they are generally wrong and we go down rabbit holes too often). Some may be correct - great - but do you know that going in?

In one shop years ago - the customer AND service manager said "he said all it needs is to bleed the brakes, so bleed his brakes". I heard the symptoms and knew they were dead wrong - but the customer insisted. An hour later, closing time - they still had no brakes and staff were expected to stay since the job had been started - and it never should have been started.

We've discussed the loaner thing to death - these days, such things are hard to come by. Some dealers have had to sell "loaners" just to have something to sell. Even rental places are short. The dealer I bought from has an independent rental company working with them and if you aren't there in line before they open - that rental company is short on vehicles. They will shuttle you within 25 miles if they are already out of "loaners".
Local Ford dealer has no loaners this year. Can't speak to Lexus or Mercedes, don't hang out with those folks.

 

[Vtur]

In terms of customers service, FCA needs to learn from Acura/Lexus. I ended up replaced the light myself, caused i think it's a waist of times to goes through of dropping it off multiple times for a $70 part.

I do gets angry fairly easily, so avoiding the dealer is my best course . Own the truck for nearly 2 years and had only been back for the def update.

 

[Hootbro]

In terms of customers service, FCA needs to learn from Acura/Lexus. I ended up replaced the light myself, caused i think it's a waist of times to goes through of dropping it off multiple times for a $70 part.

I agree, there is a value to my time. I have done exactly this on a few simple warranty repairs on other vehicles I had in the past that were simple but not worth the time to play the dealership games and just bought the parts and paid for it on my dime and did it myself.

 

[Vtur]

I agree, there is a value to my time. I have done exactly this on a few simple warranty repairs on other vehicles I had in the past that were simple but not worth the time to play the dealership games and just bought the parts and paid for it on my dime and did it myself.

I feel ya and also less stressful too by not having to deals with unprofessional attitude peoples.

 

[Rockabillyroy]

I've brought in my old jeep a few times for specific items. Like the famous p0520. Called them to make an appointment and they know the part needed for the repair. Only for it to sit all day and them tell me that they don't have the part.

Wife needed lock cylinder on her honda repaired after someone broke the lock. They knew exactly what was needed. She dropped her car off in the morning only to get a call in the afternoon that they didn't have the part on hand.

They all do the same thing and that's why I avoid dealerships as much as possible.

Such a waste of time. When you have kids in school and a job, that sht really is bs when they waste your time. Cause now, you have to take time off again when the part does actually come in.

Getting back to original post, I bought the brake light and replaced it myself. Hahaha.

 

[PlayfulBird]

o replace a part under warranty and get REIMBURSED, they MUST follow specific procedures. For you to help can't be a part of that. They must diagnose it, show what they did to diagnose it.
They can't take your word for it - what if you were wrong? What if everyone Joe and Joann went in and said "I know what's wrong, just replace this part"?
And you know many would be wrong.......... they can't do it and to expect it is not understanding all

You are not guaranteed any loaner or rental either - people seem to believe that's a given.
No one promised that!

Right. No one promised anything, other than replacing bad parts for XXXXX miles. Indeed that was what I paid for. If I bring in a part that can be tested as easily as providing 12v power source, and it clearly came off my vehicle, then it should be replaced under warranty. On the spot. I can be proven wrong by having a 12v power supplied to the lamp. If it turned on, then I'd toss em the keys and admit I was wrong. But that isn't the case.

I went out of MY way to make things easier, but I received no reciprocal act. And I'm the customer. That's the problem.

What Papa said and the fact that you are messing with it prior state (like testing, assembling etc.), your helping does not really help the dealer and just make it harder on the dealer to claim it from FCA. There is a simple chain of checks that need to be done, even if for example the taillight was damaged (trail damage) and visually is to be blamed. They have steps to follow to make sure the stuff attached is also still fine.
Like stated, they have a methodology. So you want them to replace X, lets assume you are right, great. Lets assume you are wrong. Your aftermarket this and that actually is to be blamed, when a specific situation occurs. Now you are back two months later claiming again. They are ffd either way. There are always liability and insurance issues with this kinda muddy procedure. It costs them more time and effort, but if they are unlucky, they also get sued. So why would they accommodate this?
What you paid for is: this here, on this stock vehicle, does not work. Drop it off. It gets diagnosed. Then they order and claim, repair/replace and you get your vehicle back. The fact that we mod etc. just makes them even more hesitant, as the diagnosis might have been made much harder by following your wiring etc.
Even if you claim it is stock, most dealers will have to assume there is a good chance it is not or the customer would not tell them otherwise.
If customers and dealers actually followed the set out route, a lot of issues would be caught earlier and recalls, updates etc. would have to be acknowledged.
I get why we don't, same here, but there is a reason.
You have now chosen the path of let me just fix it, and that is also not bad. Comes with some pitfalls though, but a lot of satisfaction

customers service, FCA needs to learn

This is true 100%
And their staff should be a bit less rushed, and needs to at least know the basics about the vehicles and what is going on.

 

[Rahkmalla]

They will shuttle you within 25 miles if they are already out of "loaners".

In 2020 when a dealer told me they don't do the shuttle anymore because of covid, I had to accept it. In 2022 when I'm getting the same excuse, it makes me want to burn the building down. No loaners, no rental agreement, no shuttle?

When service departments stop providing service, I stop going.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

In 2020 when a dealer told me they don't do the shuttle anymore because of covid, I had to accept it. In 2022 when I'm getting the same excuse, it makes me want to burn the building down. No loaners, no rental agreement, no shuttle?

When service departments stop providing service, I stop going.

You won't get any negative thoughts from this direction on that one.
Your choice, vote with your wallet.
Ironically, I have started going back to a dealer I bought from, but generally haven't been thrilled with historically, because they offer shuttle, loaners (if you get there EARLY - be in line before the doors open and tell the service writer when you call - I NEED A LOANER)

I also get that not all people have more than one vehicle.
Maybe we're lucky, but my wife has a nice 2021 Jeep that I could use if she was home and not out and about with her gang of quilting friends. In good weather, my SX4 can be used. Winter - it's put away. I can usually schedule around things - usually.
Those who need to commute to work every day and maybe have 1 vehicle, or two but both work outside the home - it could be more of a problem.
I'm also lucky there - my neighbors would take me to Illinois if need be. In fact one time I had to work and my son had car trouble over there - Larry hooked onto my car hauler and drove several hours to IL, loaded up my son's car, and brought it back to my shop. He refused so much as gas money. Again, maybe I'm lucky..............

I get the frustration.
And doing business with dealers that are more helpful is a way to vote for their survival vs. the others.

But I get the rental and loaner thing in SOME areas. My son and his family travel a lot. Him for work/business, and then his wife for their foreign businesses. He's been complaining for the last couple of years that it's really hard to line up rentals in some places. If a rental company has issues- think of the dealers.

That's all I'm suggesting.





For the others -
No one, anywhere, at any time, on any paper, any PDF file, any book, or any website promised anyone a loaner.
There should be no expectation of a loaner. No one ever said it would happen. It's a nice perk and dealers who do it should be rewarded with business - but it should not be an expectation in these days of "everyone owes me".
Yet everyone says "they won't give me a loaner!" So who said they would?
Go in with the expectation you need your own ride outta there, do your homework - ask if they offer loaners or shuttle rides.
Sometimes I wonder if some have ever bought new vehicles before. This is how it is and how I've seen it for many years.

A semi-serious question after seeing a certain types of complaints - how old are some of those out here and how many new vehicles other than luxury brands have been bought?
Some seem to act as if this is all new -but it's how I've seen the auto world for many years. Nothing has changed. Is this a first-time new vehicle? First time dealing with shops?
I've owned my own - first time I was 16 and went into business. I've worked at 4 shops otherwise (and turned down the offer of job as service manager at our largest Jeep dealership) and I guess I don't see anything new or unusual.
Have some of you come from Lexus (the Toyota luxury line) or Mercedes or BMW or Infinity vehicle and believe that's the way of the world with all others?

 

[4-Play]

Had an issue with Jeep Liberty windows falling off the track. Apparently there were so many of these that Jeep warranties them for life. After the second one, I took the panel off, the part out and walked into the parts department with it. They told me if I put it back together and brought the vehicle back, they would warranty it. Part was about 25$ so, I just bought the new part and put it on. Made no sense to put the broken one back in just so I could drop the Jeep off for the day to get it fixed for free.

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