Starting a 6.4 Hemi swap

[TwoCarGarageYT]

I'll admit I haven't read every work of every post, but a couple things stuck out to me reading through...

6.4 vs. 5.7 - beyond the benefits you laid out, just do some research on the BGE (Big Gas Engine) they are meant to take some abuse. Durability and additional cooling meant to take boost

4.88 vs 5.13 - You'll have enough torque to move 40's, especially in 4lo. I would gear for the highway, and I think you'll likely want to be in that 1800-2200 rpm range. For me (40s and 4.88s) that 70-75 mph. 4lo is an additional consideration. Granted I have more power with the 448ci stroker unit, but with the 4:1 tcase i"m pushing through 1 ton brakes.

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[Flyin6]

I'll admit I haven't read every work of every post, but a couple things stuck out to me reading through...

6.4 vs. 5.7 - beyond the benefits you laid out, just do some research on the BGE (Big Gas Engine) they are meant to take some abuse. Durability and additional cooling meant to take boost

4.88 vs 5.13 - You'll have enough torque to move 40's, especially in 4lo. I would gear for the highway, and I think you'll likely want to be in that 1800-2200 rpm range. For me (40s and 4.88s) that 70-75 mph. 4lo is an additional consideration. Granted I have more power with the 448ci stroker unit, but with the 4:1 tcase i"m pushing through 1 ton brakes.

I've done a lot of research on the 6.4 vs the 5.7...Two different motors in some ways. I chose the 6.4 SRT engine modified for the Jeep...

Gears. Right now, with an RTT and a rack, I want to say I have a "heavy" overland setup, which would suggest 4.88's with at least a 37" tire. But I have deleted a ton of stuff...Back seat, aluminum bumper, rear hitch, second battery. But then added a long-arm suspension, heavier steering, and RSE sliders, so the weight may be a wash between now and stock.
I would favor a 4.56 gear for highway driving, as you suggest, for the current tire size. I do not think I am willing to do both the gear change (again) and the 40" tire upgrade...

 

[Flyin6]

Oh, and on the brake thing: My plan was to go to TerraFlex's big brake kit. However, they can't accept any more than a 4.72" Backspace. My Borah wheels have a 5.73" B.S.
My solution is to install Ram dually studs which are M14 X 1.5 and 3.5" long. They have the same knurl (.630") as the stock Gladiator studs. Toss in a 1" wheel spacer and bingo, bigger brakes and able to keep the same wheel.

 

[40x40]

Oh, and on the brake thing: My plan was to go to TerraFlex's big brake kit. However, they can't accept any more than a 4.72" Backspace. My Borah wheels have a 5.73" B.S.
My solution is to install Ram dually studs which are M14 X 1.5 and 3.5" long. They have the same knurl (.630") as the stock Gladiator studs. Toss in a 1" wheel spacer and bingo, bigger brakes and able to keep the same wheel.

hello any updates on the hemi swap? i'm getting anxious as it will be 2 months saturday since it hit the shop!

 

[Flyin6]

hello any updates on the hemi swap? i'm getting anxious as it will be 2 months saturday since it hit the shop!

You're anxious!!!
Where does that put me???!!!! ;-)

There has been some work, I am told. The owner told me he had the 392/Mojave hood painted and assembled and possibly some engine assembly, but as far as I know, the Jeep is still in the warehouse!

Mike, the owner, told me he took the Jeep in on the 4th of May because I wanted it gone. That is true; I did want it in the shop getting a Hemi, but I sent it then because he told me he could accept it on the 4th. I guess it may have been my misunderstanding; I thought that was when the work would commence.

 

[Flyin6]

I anticipate having the engine and transmission available for sale in the very near future. Engine has 19,000 miles, has the aluminum filter housing with a new oil cooler along with the Baxter oil filter adapter. Also has new iridium spark plugs and Ripp coils.

 

[Flyin6]

Update: I drove up to the shop yesterday and chatted with the owner. What an operation! They are growing exponentially with something like six buildings now, a warehouse, and so many Jeeps; I thought I was in heaven!
So it turns out my swap has been waiting on a new engine mount, which has now been perfected and built. I saw one welded into another doner Gladiator. He has improved on what has been available in the past. They scanned and digitized everything in the Jeep. With that digital map, they created a new mount which is now being produced locally in volume. My Jeep will get the first production set.
We talked about a bunch of things, some of which will remain "classified." Suffice it to say this shop is literally on the leading edge of Jeep future production.
Regarding the steering setup on mine. He/I are favoring retaining the stock electric power steering, but upgrading it with increased pressure. More on that as we move forward.
It should not be that much longer before parts start to fall off my truck
On another note, the supercharged engine is all goofed up. Mike said "It was running like crap." He told the mechanics to park it and not start it until it comes into the bay for engine removal. He said it was barely idling and the supercharger was making bad sounds. I did not hear it run, but my guess is the MAP sensor fell out again, and the tune is way off. No matter, that engine will soon be removed, where I will return it to stock configuration and put the 19,000-mile engine up for sale.

 

[ltdodge]

Why are you retaining the electrical steering? On my swap AMW got rid of it. Also the electrical is the source of car b ques

 

[Flyin6]

Why are you retaining the electrical steering? On my swap AMW got rid of it. Also the electrical is the source of car b ques

Several reasons:
1. It's cheaper
2. Proven system, works and integrates well
3. Only needs the pressure increase mod (easy)to push big tires around.
4. The pumps used by AMW do not last very long, unless they have upgraded. A lot of them are all done by 20K miles. You can read about them in plenty of places. My shop has 75ish AMW swaps under their belt (That's why they have created their own swap), but will do it either way. Don't quote me, but without asking, you're getting the stocker electric/hydraulic stuff.

 

[Flyin6]

Why are you retaining the electrical steering? On my swap AMW got rid of it. Also the electrical is the source of car b ques

Regarding the recall due to flamage...
Here are the numbers, as far as I can tell. Millions of JL/JTs sold.
There have been 72 field reports of which only 35 have been proven to show the electro/hydraulic unit at fault.
Adding up the numbers, I found Jeep has sold more than 1.266M Wranglers and Gladiators. I think my numbers may be low because in 2018 Jeep sold 963,000 vehicles but only 240,000 Wranglers.
So let's say 1.3 million JL/JTs sold so far.
Further, let's assume all 72 field reports were indeed attributed to this little pump unit
If my math is correct, then the percentages of those that burned are
0.0000554%, or about half of one ten-thousandth of a percent.
It represents one out of every 18,000
If you use the proven numbers, then your chances halve to one in 36,000!
Pretty good odds of you never being affected, and not a compelling reason to change to hydraulic steering in my view.

 

[agoldxj]

Anxious to see the results as I’m sure you are, I have 2 options in the next 6-12 months trade it in and go back to the T word, or 6.4 swap. Leaning towards the swap as I love the Jeep and the warranty on the drivetrain will be nice.

 

[ltdodge]

Several reasons:
1. It's cheaper
2. Proven system, works and integrates well
3. Only needs the pressure increase mod (easy)to push big tires around.
4. The pumps used by AMW do not last very long, unless they have upgraded. A lot of them are all done by 20K miles. You can read about them in plenty of places. My shop has 75ish AMW swaps under their belt (That's why they have created their own swap), but will do it either way. Don't quote me, but without asking, you're getting the stocker electric/hydraulic stuff.

Can you backup your statement of the AMW pump going out at 20 k miles? I have searched and have not found any instance. I'm curious if this is just a blanket statement because your not fond of AMW or if you actually can show proof.

 

[Flyin6]

Can you backup your statement of the AMW pump going out at 20 k miles? I have searched and have not found any instance. I'm curious if this is just a blanket statement because your not fond of AMW or if you actually can show proof.

Fair request.
I have read it once or three times in various posts. I read literally everything I can pertaining to these swaps, so pointing to exactly where I saw any mention is impossible. Feel free to discount my statement pointing to threads as proof. My installer actually has an ex-AMW installer working there. He was not keen on the stock Mopar hydraulic pump he had used before. The shop supervisor who has overseen or completed over 70 swaps made that claim to me. They pointed to either another hydraulic steering pump or retaining the electric setup.
Point of order: I do not dislike AMW. Nor do I want to shed any negative light on their excellent kits or work. In my business, even $50M aircraft sometimes come with crappy hydraulic pumps. (Ask me how I know!)
In my view: AMW is fine. RubiTRux and others are truly excellent. Having said that, Mike is going to offer an alternative which is well sorted out and uses mostly all factory Mopar parts.

I did a quick search which pointed out problems with the 5.7 spec pump in Hemi swaps. It apparently has high pressure, whines and doesn't work well at low RPMs. It mentioned frequent pump replacements averaging 57,000 miles. It also mentioned the bulk of the incompatibility in JK conversions. (Mismatched pressures).

 

[ltdodge]

Fair request.
I have read it once or three times in various posts. I read literally everything I can pertaining to these swaps, so pointing to exactly where I saw any mention is impossible. Feel free to discount my statement pointing to threads as proof. My installer actually has an ex-AMW installer working there. He was not keen on the stock Mopar hydraulic pump he had used before. The shop supervisor who has overseen or completed over 70 swaps made that claim to me. They pointed to either another hydraulic steering pump or retaining the electric setup.
Point of order: I do not dislike AMW. Nor do I want to shed any negative light on their excellent kits or work. In my business, even $50M aircraft sometimes come with crappy hydraulic pumps. (Ask me how I know!)
In my view: AMW is fine. RubiTRux and others are truly excellent. Having said that, Mike is going to offer an alternative which is well sorted out and uses mostly all factory Mopar parts.

I did a quick search which pointed out problems with the 5.7 spec pump in Hemi swaps. It apparently has high pressure, whines and doesn't work well at low RPMs. It mentioned frequent pump replacements averaging 57,000 miles. It also mentioned the bulk of the incompatibility in JK conversions. (Mismatched pressures).

Fair enough, your going to enjoy your build

 

[Jteakus]

I just got back from a big trip and had trouble steering my rig several times. I have the pressure bumped up with an APEX kit and a big cooler. I am stuck with this elec system because diesel but if I could convert to hyd I would jump on it. My opinion. I intend to upgrade to PSC's new ram and a ported box to take care of my issues.

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