Switching from Hamburgers to Magnuson

[Aonarch]

i guess i dont understand what owning modified vehicles has to do with it. when it comes to typical reasons for failure outside tuning negligence or metallurgical failure- Cylinder pressures generally is what “breaks” things, and revs and duty cycle is what “wears” things. Heat also gets a say in everything.

its largely academic, but Dave is accurate.

100%

Excessive heat, to me, is one of the biggest enemies of the automotive world.

Proper engine cooling can help improve longevity either stock or modified.

Proper transmission cooling can help improve longevity either stock or modified.

Etc.

For example, anyone who tows, should have a transmission cooler.

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[KurtP]

100%

Excessive heat, to me, is one of the biggest enemies of the automotive world.

Proper engine cooling can help improve longevity either stock or modified.

Proper transmission cooling can help improve longevity either stock or modified.

Etc.

For example, anyone who tows, should have a transmission cooler.

Correct. Heat is the enemy. these trucks have a transmission cooler, although some people say there is a flow issue. I dont tow heavy enough to know one way or another.

when you consider blowers: remember centri blowers are the least efficient blower option there is. All things being equal, they will add an additional degree per psi of compressed air over a TVS Eaton rotor pack, and about a degree to a degree and a half over a gen 5 whipple rotor pack. To get the tq you need, you have to either rev and/or oversize the compressor to the point cyl pressure becomes problematic.

then consider the heat exchanger. fluid has 24x the capacity for heat xfer of air. Its why cars arent air cooled anymore. Nearly no one uses air to air intercoolers anymore, even in turbo applications for this very reason.

TVS and Whipple blowers are thermodynamically and mechanically superior to centri blowers.

 

[CFLgladiator]

i guess i dont understand what owning modified vehicles has to do with it. when it comes to typical reasons for failure outside tuning negligence or metallurgical failure- Cylinder pressures generally is what “breaks” things, and revs and duty cycle is what “wears” things. Heat also gets a say in everything.

its largely academic, but Dave is accurate.

I stated owning modified vehicles to show I have no bias towards power adders, but I disagree with the fact that adding a supercharger will make your engine last longer. You quoted him asking if it gives engine longevity and then stated that as long as cylinder pressure is maintained it does.

I merely was saying it doesn't add longevity but as long as done well doesn't take any away.

 

[KurtP]

I stated owning modified vehicles to show I have no bias towards power adders, but I disagree with the fact that adding a supercharger will make your engine last longer. You quoted him asking if it gives engine longevity and then stated that as long as cylinder pressure is maintained it does.

I merely was saying it doesn't add longevity but as long as done well doesn't take any away.

ah.

well, we’re talking about longevity vs a centri blower, for one, but it actually applies to stock as well, depending on how you’re using it.

You can mic the specs on a cylinder wall and rings over the course of an engine’s service life and see the difference between an engine that’s been revved vs one that hasn’t. Same with measuring cyl leak down. Engines that don’t have to be revved as much last longer, all else being equal. Take a gladiator that tows or hauls and lives at 3500-4500 vs that truck with a blower that lives at 2500-3500 and the blown truck lives longer.

it’s largely academic in this use case, but it is accurate.

 

[CFLgladiator]

Ya my statement was in contrast to stock, which I thought his comment was referring to.
I like your comment of stock 3500-4500 rpm vs boosted 2500-3500 but I feel the extra cylinder pressure negates the rpm benefit as far as increasing longevity is concerned and still will create at least an even amount of cylinder and ring wear.
My point is as long as an exactly the same amount of power and heat are created the same engine life should be expected, barring of course the negligence/metallurgical possibilities you already spoke of.

Athough I do like the idea of a thorough tuner like Dave might actually be increasing longevity with a cleaner more efficient combustion, but that is a separate matter, not about superchargers or turbos.

 

[CFLgladiator]

BTW, I can't wait to read more of the ops review of the switch. I've been leaning towards the Maggie while also trying to convince myself to let this be the first engine I haven't added power to since being able to drive lol.
Part of me is glad Dave doesn't live closer otherwise I might have already taken him up on his install offers.
I usually do all my own work but not because I like to, I just don't trust others to care as much as me, but Dave seems like I could trust him.

 

[KurtP]

Ya my statement was in contrast to stock, which I thought his comment was referring to.
I like your comment of stock 3500-4500 rpm vs boosted 2500-3500 but I feel the extra cylinder pressure negates the rpm benefit as far as increasing longevity is concerned and still will create at least an even amount of cylinder and ring wear.
My point is as long as an exactly the same amount of power and heat are created the same engine life should be expected, barring of course the negligence/metallurgical possibilities you already spoke of.

Nah I do like the idea of a thorough tuner like Dave might actually be increasing longevity with a cleaner more efficient combustion, but that is a separate matter, not about superchargers or turbos.

if operating temps stay in spec, and cyl pressures stay within tolerance, you dont see added wear or increased failure Compared to a non boosted motor driven similarly. Break down and accelerated wear comes from increasing the temps beyond cooling capacity, increasing tq or cyl pressures beyond spec, or running excessively high EGT; to name a few.

this can be done with or without boost. Boost makes it easier, of course, but it isnt an absolute. Ive torn down and rebuilt plenty of failed NA race motors, and had boosted motors go a long long time.

I guess the take away here is that adding boost doesnt automatically accelerate wear, but higher revs does, and heat does.….the cooling capacity of these blower kits have plenty of overhead for daily use, and the EGT and cyl pressure @DAVECS1 has set have margin left.

where you typically see the accelerated wear failures in motors from FI that (i think) you’re talking about comes from heads running hot. My point is that getting hot spots on a cyl head can happen with or without FI; and while it is easier to hot spot a head with FI, we’d have to beat the piss out of this system and test to see where (and if) hot spots occurred and compare it to stock. (Im using the definition of a hot spot in the head as an area of accumulated heat that causes material break down or detonation or other issue despite over all operating temps showing in spec on the gauge)

cheers

 

[DAVECS1]

I looking forward to getting some feedback also, good or bad. I have assisted many people getting things loaded onto their jeep and there have been a number that I have made tweaks for so it runs good on their combo. I usually get the quick initial comments, oh this is better, or I need a change. For as many people that are running the tune not much feedback. There have been some killer members on this forum that have supplied data and sent me discounted or free parts. My guess or hope is, as long as nothing is wrong maybe people just stay quiet, and are happy.

 

[DC3]

I looking forward to getting some feedback also, good or bad. I have assisted many people getting things loaded onto their jeep and there have been a number that I have made tweaks for so it runs good on their combo. I usually get the quick initial comments, oh this is better, or I need a change. For as many people that are running the tune not much feedback. There have been some killer members on this forum that have supplied data and sent me discounted or free parts. My guess or hope is, as long as nothing is wrong maybe people just stay quiet, and are happy.

I will definitely get you some data very soon.

I love your TCU tune and the shift profile. WOW, night and day difference, also the shifting combined with the Magnuson SC and tune sounds awesome (I do have an exhaust.)

 

[HouseOfWolves]

Pretty much what @DAVECS1 said. I haven't owned an unmodified vehicle in 20 years. Every vehicle I've owned has had some sort of turbo upgrade, supercharger upgrade, or tune. The gladiator is my first NA vehicle since my TJ wrangler and a reminder of why I love forced induction.

When I bought the Hamburger kit, there were no objective comparisons between kits. I wondered about the Magnuson since then and so I'm documenting the two kits and will provide an objective comparison for others.

No unicorns chased here. It's all about the journey and I'm having fun. The stock 3.6 sucks, the centrifugal supercharger is great up top but I want more midrange.

I appreciate your answer -- thank you for laying it out for me.

I have daydreamed about dropping a hemi into the JTR, but I cannot justify parting with that kind of cash And, everytime I ride up to Boone and pass RubiTrux -- Angus wants to bang a hard right instead of left towards Blowing Rock.

It seemed like the SC was the immediate answer to the problem for not wanting to drop the HEMI premium price. I look forward to hearing your reviews between the two systems going forward.

 

[NC_Overland]

The pentastar has been out for a while now. What kind of longevity are people seeing with supercharged 3.6ls?

 

[USMC-SSGT]

I’d love a hemi if I lived in Arizona. In NH, cars last about 10 years before they disintegrate.

 

[DAVECS1]

The pentastar has been out for a while now. What kind of longevity are people seeing with supercharged 3.6ls?

Well I did mine with 1400 miles on the clock and now have 25K and some change. I did an oil analysis at 7000 and one at 16000 all came back clean.

 

[itsdapk]

So you are comparing the stock tune of the Hamburgers Supercharger to the custom tune by Dave? Do you think that is a fair comparison? I'd love to have a Dave custom tune as well.

 

[itsdapk]

Correct. Heat is the enemy. these trucks have a transmission cooler, although some people say there is a flow issue. I dont tow heavy enough to know one way or another.

when you consider blowers: remember centri blowers are the least efficient blower option there is. All things being equal, they will add an additional degree per psi of compressed air over a TVS Eaton rotor pack, and about a degree to a degree and a half over a gen 5 whipple rotor pack. To get the tq you need, you have to either rev and/or oversize the compressor to the point cyl pressure becomes problematic.

then consider the heat exchanger. fluid has 24x the capacity for heat xfer of air. Its why cars arent air cooled anymore. Nearly no one uses air to air intercoolers anymore, even in turbo applications for this very reason.

TVS and Whipple blowers are thermodynamically and mechanically superior to centri blowers.

Thermodynamically superior? Please show me your proof?
Is that why they (roots style) blowers have to sit at the track for about an hour between passes or you have to ice the crap out of the manifold? I've had 3 roots vehicles and they are good for one good hit/pull and the rest is heat soak and pull a bunch of timing.

As for mechanically superior? We use a non Newtonion fluid that changes properties so that creates traction and creates the grip to the bearings. Thus there is no whine and can spin 90k rpm.
More Whine = making more heat.

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