Toe in VS Toe Out

[IanNubbit]

That's specs and not set, but now I see your post about none coming with factory alignment.
So dealers align them before they go out, or do they just send them and see what happens?

Well caster is none adjustable, only toe and steering wheel to tire correlation is adjustable. When I say not set at the assembly line, All measurments are fixed and can not be adjusted. Only toe, which is not checked because the tie rod and drag link length are preset before instal. Also the Set-To chart is the exact same values, no change at all

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[Lunentucker]

Well caster is none adjustable, only toe and steering wheel to tire correlation is adjustable. When I say not set at the assembly line, All measurments are fixed and can not be adjusted. Only toe, which is not checked because the tie rod and drag link length are preset before instal. Also the Set-To chart is the exact same values, no change at all

Yes, it was my theory that the Rubicon and Mojave suspensions were stealing caster off the base build. I was wondering if they'd be better off assembled with the Mopar long LCA's.

 

[jac04]

I got curious and took a picture of a random on lot vehicle. Anyone see what I see? (Yes truck is level in our drive through, the othe side was identical)

Remember that your floor slopes toward the drain on both sides, and the Jeep is straddling the drain. It makes it look like it has positive camber.

 

[Jeepasaurus_Rex]

For the steering wheel I've found it's easier on jack stands under the axle with the big tires. If not I end up turning it too much one way or the other due to the tire resistance/flex

Thanks! And thanks to @Lunentucker & @ShadowsPapa ...I'm gonna give that a shot sometime this week. I don't have Jscan. But I'll try lifting the front up a bit and trying it out.

I was doing the same thing where i'd overadjust and could never get it right ?

 

[Lunentucker]

Just got the chance to watch the video.

"scrub radius" is way different than what I was thinking it was.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Thanks! And thanks to @Lunentucker & @ShadowsPapa ...I'm gonna give that a shot sometime this week. I don't have Jscan. But I'll try lifting the front up a bit and trying it out.

I was doing the same thing where i'd overadjust and could never get it right ?

It doesn't take too much turning of that spinny thing to change that wheel angle.

 

[Lunentucker]

It doesn't take too much turning of that spinny thing to change that wheel angle.

"Twirler" - If you want to learn about spinners turn off safe search.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Well caster is none adjustable, only toe and steering wheel to tire correlation is adjustable. When I say not set at the assembly line, All measurments are fixed and can not be adjusted. Only toe, which is not checked because the tie rod and drag link length are preset before instal. Also the Set-To chart is the exact same values, no change at all

Jigs set caster and camber when the axle tubes have the brackets and such welded on. If that's off you could still end up with an off beast. But the things are tracked by laser so it shouldn't happen.

Like the man said - the dealership could check - but they can't change anything other than toe or steering wheel centering. Camber and camber differences are locked in, caster and caster differences are locked in. Dealers can't do squat for alignments. That's why I sort of chuckle when I see "I took my truck in for alignment and it drives like a new one now" or "they got it all dialed in and it's fine now" or " I got it back and it drives like crap now". Sorry, unless they F'd up toe and the steering wheel being centered, they didn't do any of that because no one can on a stock Wrangler or Gladiator.

Also figured I'll throw this is, Factory curb height.

REAR CURB HEIGHT

1. On each side of the vehicle, measure the height from the center of the lower control arm front bolt (1) to the ground.
2. Measure the height from the center of the rear wheel to the ground.
3. Subtract the lower control arm bolt height from the wheel center height to get the rear curb height.

FRONT CURB HEIGHT

1. Bounce the front of the vehicle five times.
2. Measure and record the dimensions
3. Measure the height from the center of the lower control arm rear bolt (1).
4. Measure the height from the center of the front wheel to the ground.
5. Subtract the lower control arm bolt height from the wheel center height to get the front curb height.

This might ruffle some feather lol. ALso explains why my Sport was noticeably taller compared others with metric 35s

And that control arm bolt to ground is also what is measured if they do anything with the FCW/ACC camera system - if it's out of spec, then they have to account for that when doing the self-alignment. So a lifted Jeep will require that be checked.

 

[Glad17]

I'm not saying this is the end-all, but if you're having issues with handling, it's a zero cost try.
Obviously, the farther you measure from center the more the number will be in inches or millimeters.
I like the laser on the flat of the rim. It seems to get the same number every time.

This is an amazing idea. My 1 week old JT rubicon seems to wonder a lot more than my jk or TJ did. Was able to rule out bad alignment in 30 seconds

 

[Free2roam]

So is it toe out or toe in? I've read it all. But can't seem to come to the conclusion.

 

[Lunentucker]

So is it toe out or toe in? I've read it all. But can't seem to come to the conclusion.

See reply in the other thread.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

So is it toe out or toe in? I've read it all. But can't seem to come to the conclusion.

There's no clear answer - "it depends" is the only accurate answer unless you want to dig really deep into tire size, wheel backsets and such.
for stock, stock tires and wheels, toe in.
For wheels that don't match the factory numbers and much taller tires - YMMV - and toe out could apply.

 

[JTGuy]

I just set my toe and DL in my garage, again. I am as close to zero as I can get without being toe out. It drives straight with no pull and the wheel is centered. Two pieces of angle aluminum 2 feet long with bolt holes for the lug nuts. Its perfect.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I just set my toe and DL in my garage, again. I am as close to zero as I can get without being toe out. It drives straight with no pull and the wheel is centered. Two pieces of angle aluminum 2 feet long with bolt holes for the lug nuts. Its perfect.

You don't want 0.
Toe doesn't impact pull at all.
There's a huge reason - if you've done enough front end work - to why you don't run 0 toe.
It will be 0 when running down the highway under ideal conditions but to get there, you need to have toe in while sitting (stock) or toe out if you've made a lot of changes. It depends on a lot of other factors, including scrub radius, wear on the parts and more.

 

[Gizmo]

I always read toe out is for front wheel drive and toe in was for rear wheel drive . I tend to think if it takes being toed out something is wrong on the jeep. Never had a vehicle that required toed out to correctly cure anything .

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