Transmission service

[Gladiator85]

Good information. To me though I'm always looking for the best fluid to run as I keep my vehicles well beyond 200k if possible. When it comes to antifreeze and transmission fluid nowadays I've learned my lesson the hard way. Unless the manufacturer says it's suitable it's not worth going non oem approved.

Even if you save a few bucks a quart was it really worth potentially having premature failure? Juice ain't worth the squeeze when you are taking that kind of gamble. Only way to truly know if non oem is good other than the placebo effect is a UOA. The "it shifts better" is solely opinion and not scientific data that it's indeed better for the application.

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[biodiesel]

To me though I'm always looking for the best fluid to run as I keep my vehicles well beyond 200k if possible.

I agree 100%, which is why I perform a drain and fill at 40,000 miles intervals.

Only way to truly know if non oem is good other than the placebo effect is a UOA. The "it shifts better" is solely opinion and not scientific data that it's indeed better for the application.

I take transmission fluid samples (We have three EcoDiesel vehicles with the ZF transmission). So far, Amsoil Signature Series has produced great results. We are seeing iron, copper, and tin drop. The aluminum is the only wear metal that didn't drop, but there are still residuals in the system since we are doing drain and fills.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

And another thing the horse said is:
“In operating conditions with high temperatures and loads, or
with unknown vehicle use in the past, it can make sense to change the transmission oil at shorter intervals.”

So if one wants to change the oil say ‘every couple of years or even yearly or any time earlier than at the end of life when it’s worn out and Chrysler doesn’t want it’, then so be it. Change it early! ZF says, “…it makes sense”.

ZF doesn’t provide what “higher temps or loads means” and says it makes sense to change the oil, then …do it!

I agree........seen too many damaged by heat or heavy towing which creates added wear and heat.
I plow snow now and then, if/when we get some, and that's a ton of back and forth - R to D, D to R, and my occasional light towing, you can bet I'd never go that lifetime thing.
But if it was my wife's vehicle, yeah, I'd probably push it close to the max. She'll never overheat a transmission or tow. Simple driving, ordinary use.

Anything other than ordinary driving should be considered for closer change intervals.
You aren't going to break it with new fluid now and then.

 

[Maximus Gladius]

I agree........seen too many damaged by heat or heavy towing which creates added wear and heat.
I plow snow now and then, if/when we get some, and that's a ton of back and forth - R to D, D to R, and my occasional light towing, you can bet I'd never go that lifetime thing.
But if it was my wife's vehicle, yeah, I'd probably push it close to the max. She'll never overheat a transmission or tow. Simple driving, ordinary use.

Anything other than ordinary driving should be considered for closer change intervals.
You aren't going to break it with new fluid now and then.

But ZF isn’t saying “over heat”, it’s saying “higher temps and loads”. To me, higher temp means traveling during those crazy hot summer days and where the temp bar “normally” sits on the temp guage has now moved up one notch. “Load” to me means take your stock weight and now add on all the weight of your extra mods and stuff you throw in the back and that’s what you call a “load”.

Then as ZF says and anyone else that thinks being proactive on oil changes says “it makes sense” to change the oil.. the next question is how long do you keep that oil in there and does it make sense to just keep it in there or get it out of there?? Another thing that “makes sense” is to have that oil lab tested and watch the trends.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

To me, higher temp means traveling during those crazy hot summer days and where the temp bar “normally” sits on the temp guage has now moved up one notch.

Naw, that's not a problem at all.
My truck only ever sees what I consider higher loads when I tow or have the back end loaded down. The mods aren't higher loads - these are tougher than that. Look at what they are used in.
You can do whatever, but older transmissions with older technology fluids ran hotter than these do. Think of a torque converter that never locked, the fluid always churning. The only cooling was in the bottom of the radiator (such as it was)
I go by degrees, not a "go/no" gauge with bars on it.

“Load” to me means take your stock weight and now add on all the weight of your extra mods and stuff you throw in the back and that’s what you call a “load”.

That's normal - not a load. The weight is on the axles and once that load is rolling, there's not a lot of added stress on the transmission.
People with unloaded vehicles driving in my neighborhood stress that transmission more than someone with a load in the back driving in KS or NE.
To me, a load would be having the back end loaded with concrete block up to the payload number.
Mods? Hardly. Some of these come with more weight than what people put on their Jeeps with mods. Look at a Mojave X - it weighs as much as my Overland with the winch, steps, bumper (maybe more) - so you can't say my JT is in a load situation.
(temps are always in the perfectly normal range)

Sorry, been into too many transmissions over the years, looked into transmission temperatures and fluid abilities to worry about a Jeep with mods being "a load".

The only thing I consider some reason to cut the interval down is the snow plowing and the towing. otherwise, hauling stuff from Menards now and then, that sort of thing, and my mods - not a load really.

 

[Blade1668]

People should note that even ZF is saying it can be over 90,000 miles, so the term "lifetime" isn't that far off. When people think of "lifetime" they get literal. In the automotive world, to many, lifetime still means roughly 100,000 miles.
But no, people get hung up on that word.
150,000 km is roughly 93,000 miles. So, for many, that would be lifetime - meaning "as long as I'll own it".

Right from the horse's mouth:

I also note what's not on that list of approved fluids - no surprise (and no, I'm not looking at or for amsoil but - having dug into oils and ATFs and hypoid lubes for a long time, what's missing and what's there is of no surprise to me at all. But it becomes a religion and people will do or believe whatever. )

For people like me that's just getting broken in. my LJ MT fluid has been changed 3-4 times at least.
FYI Bill, I was making a beeline out of IL yesterday the heck with that snow / freezing sleet.

 

[g2020]

I had reached out to ZF last year asking about a certain ATF I was looking at using, (and no, it was most definitely not AMSOIL), specifically designed to “quiet” automatic tranny whines and noises and they sent me this PDF of “approved” lubricants for the 8/9 speed transmission.

This is in reference to Post # 28 in this thread, from Maximus Gladius (Nov 30, 2024).

Those are the wrong pages (pp. 6-7). Right document, wrong pages. Lubricant class 11A (shown above) does not apply to ZF 8HP50 / Chrysler 850RE 8-speed automatic transmissions.

ZF document: List of ZF-approved lubricants (also see attachment 1 in ZF reference docs)

The correct pages are pp. 4-5. Specifically, the last section on page 4 (see 8HP50) and the first section on page 5 (see Stellantis Oil No. 68218925AB). Stellantis Oil No. 68218925AB = MOPAR 68218925AB.

For easy reference, three (3) ZF-approved lubricants for the 850RE automatic transmission are listed in my post (below) covering this topic.

My post to this forum: Key Takeaways on Fluids & Filters for Jeep Gladiator 3.6L V6
Section: 3.6
Paragraph: "Summary of Lubricant Options for Chrysler 850RE Automatic Transmission in Jeep Gladiator"
Options: 1-3 (not option 4 if under warranty)
Also see: "Notes on claimed equivalents" at the end of section 3.6

 

[mrmo]

Ok, tryin to cypher all this, i didnt do initial 1k or so miles, was going to bit just didnt. im at 52k now, mostly highway w a little 4-wheelin and light towing, so im gearing up to change it. What is the PPE pan? deeper, better filter? and someone says B&M makes a pan to fit? Ive used B&M products in the past

 

[biodiesel]

What is the PPE pan? deeper, better filter?

The PPE pan is slightly deeper (holds more capacity) and is aluminum with cooling fins. In theory, it will lower your transmission fluid a few degrees, especially when towing. The biggest benefit, in my opinion, is the ability to service your fluid easier with a magnetic drain plug, plus it will be cheaper than having to buy a replacement transmission pan. It's a pretty easy decision for those of us who plan to keep our Jeeps for the long haul.

 

[g2020]

I am summarizing the requirements for the OEM option for the benefit of others. Please skip to the end of this reply for my short answer on an aftermarket option.

I know that you are considering other options, but the MOPAR kit 68362041AC includes the transmission oil pan, oil pan gasket, and transmission oil filter for the automatic transmission. The transmission oil filter (MOPAR 68417054AB, included in kit 68362041AC) is available separately and must be changed. The gasket (MOPAR 68522534AA, included in kit 68362041AC) is also available separately. The original gasket is reusable as long as its integrity is intact (no bends, crimps, dents, or punctures). It is good to have a new gasket on hand in case the original is damaged. I always confirm a part number (after thinking that I know it) by giving my VIN to the dealer parts guy.
Not for newbies: For those who have never changed the (ATF) fluid in an automatic transmission, there is a somewhat complicated process that must be followed to reinstall the pan/gasket/filter and refill the fluid.
Warranty: Two service advisors at a major dealership chain have stated that failure to have automatic transmission service performed by a qualified technician will void the warranty.

As for the longevity of ATF for the automatic transmission, I recommend reading section 11, Transmission fluid, of my post called Fluid and Filter Lineup for Jeep Gladiator 3.6L V6. That section has additional commentary on automatic transmission fluid. If an automatic transmission is still under warranty, use only a ZF-approved lubricant. MOPAR 68218925AB is the first of three ZF-approved lubricant options listed in my post.

Please see the previous reply (post #39) and other comments in this thread for advice on switching to an aftermarket pan/gasket/filter for the automatic transmission. For those with a vehicle still under warranty, this modification will void the warranty.

 

[mrmo]

The PPE pan is slightly deeper (holds more capacity) and is aluminum with cooling fins. In theory, it will lower your transmission fluid a few degrees, especially when towing. The biggest benefit, in my opinion, is the ability to service your fluid easier with a magnetic drain plug, plus it will be cheaper than having to buy a replacement transmission pan. It's a pretty easy decision for those of us who plan to keep our Jeeps for the long haul.

Thanks Bio, i searched it out, my opinion is its the way to go, will be ordering one up for the my diesel

 

[PuddleJumper]

I'm due for my second one. I did the first at 20k. Just it 40k yesterday

 

[biodiesel]

Not for newbies: For those who have never changed the (ATF) fluid in an automatic transmission, there is a complicated process that must be followed to reinstall the pan/gasket/filter and refill the fluid.

It's really not a complicated process, but the directions make it complicated. If you drain out 5 quarts, then you know to put 5 quarts back in the system, assuming you're going back with the OE pan. That's simple and effective. If you're OCD like me, then you will drive it a few miles, come back, and check the fluid level using the temperature specification.

If adding the PPE pan, then you need to adjust for the extra capacity. Otherwise, it's pretty simple to change.

I use an Amsoil hand pump that is designed for 1 quart and 1-gallon bottles.

 

[rr11]

I used the PPE pan, I like the drain plug. On my old F250, I drained the pan every 10K changed the filter every 40K. the old truck has 285K on it original trans. On the old truck each change of 6 quarts was about a third of the fluid. My theory was I would have a complete flush every 30K. After 60K never found any thing in filter just fuzz on the magnet.

 

[Gvsukids]

I'm due for my second one. I did the first at 20k. Just it 40k yesterday

I'm at 90, and haven't performed one yet.

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