Weight FYI

[MPMB]

I do have one last question, I have not found in any of my manuals where it says payload is based on 150LB driver, Other makes and models have done that in the past and I think we assume that's the case here but I haven't seen it anywhere. Would be nice if it were true....

JJ

Pretty sure people are conflating "payload" with "towing capability" when it comes to what's included. Historically, towing capacity was based on the weight of the truck and trailer, including a driver, since you can't tow something without a driver (yet).

Payload is the amount you can put in the truck itself, as the truck sits in your driveway.

Ok so I am confused, but not starting trouble, I understand you can not increase payload with suspension changes. I understand the stickers on my 2021 gas /auto Mojave, to be Gvwr of 6140lbs. and payload of 1129 lbs. I know payload does not include 150lbs. of my weight but fuel and everything else counts as payload. I understand that “perhaps” changing to lighter tires and rims does not increase your payload, but driving across a scale it does decrease you GVW, so should increase payload as they check it on a scale…ok more to this look at your door GVW rating sticker it lists total weight then list front and rear axle GVWR BUT clearly says WITH these rims, these ties and at this tire pressure. So in conclusion my Mojave going across a scales has a suspension system holding the weight and the axles , tires, rims and part of the driveshaft weights are unsparing weight …not really payload. Wait another big but, when the scale people check your weight with the scale under each tire do they really look at the sticker and flunk you if you have lighter wheels and rims.
Yes I mountain bike and kayak fish and use aluminum light weight bike with lowest weight things on it , yes I pay a lot for a carbon kayak paddle that weighs 28oz., but I won’t skip lunch either. Ok boys have at it!….Jack

Mechanically/structurally, we're given what the parts can hold for weight loads.

Driving with the loads is totally different. You have to accelerate and decelerate.

The biggest limitation vehicles have with regards to towing and payload is braking.

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[chorky]

Nah this is 100% an executive decision. They already crossed the 6k threshold that puts the truck into a traditional 1/2 ton classification and the GVWR is nearly identical to an F-150 20 years ago.

This is them, like every other OEM, preventing the smaller trucks from siphoning sales from the full-size segment. There are a lot of people who would never look at an F-150 or Silverado if they could stick 2k in the back of a mid-size.

There are federal regulations that classify a truck - though they have changed over the years. For example, a class 2a light duty vehicle is 6,001 - 8,000 pounds GVW, basically your 150 or 1500 series or large SUV. Class 2b - would be the 'midsize' pickup, or 250/2500 at 8,001 - 10,000 GVW, etc....

So yes they wouldn't want the gladiator to compete with a midsize, sure thats probably true. I also dont think the gladiator would be good to be classified as a midsize. Plus there are some dimensional restrictions in that regard as well I believe.

when the scale people check your weight with the scale under each tire do they really look at the sticker and flunk you if you have lighter wheels and rims.

In response to your specific quoted text - no. Well, not if you are going to a typical truck scale, like a CAT scale. Because you are not a commercial vehicle for one. now if you are in a state that would require weight checks - then that would be a different story. In regard to the rest of what you asked, its complicated. Because a person could slap on some heavy duty tires, and maybe, just maybe the vehicle could actually handle a higher payload. But, the only way one would truly know that is to know the very specifics of how it was engineered. Not just a general statement such as 'xx pounds of reserve capacity per axle'. But you would have to get into the engineering of the frame and all components and use CAD programs to weight load and test parts at specific locations. So...Papa is right - and from a legal perspective you simply need to stay at or below GVW. But could the vehicle handle more? Probably to some degree.

stion, I have not found in any of my manuals where it says payload is based on 150LB driver, Other makes and models have done that in the past and I think we assume that's the case here but I haven't seen it anywhere.

This really isn't a thing anymore. Even back when I worked for Ford in the early 2000's that general statement was being phased out already. GVW is simply GVW. Or GVWR as they now list it. So what I did was put in a full tank of gas, go to a scale, and tell them to weigh it when I stepped OUT of the Gladiator. That way I can add my own weight later - because lets be honest, I dont weigh 150. I should.... And I want to. But my weight will fluctuate. So does 90% of our population. So thats not really a good rule to go by, because the average American I think is in the low 200 pound range these days.

Pretty sure people are conflating "payload" with "towing capability" when it comes to what's included. Historically, towing capacity was based on the weight of the truck and trailer, including a driver, since you can't tow something without a driver (yet).

Payload is the amount you can put in the truck itself, as the truck sits in your driveway.



Mechanically/structurally, we're given what the parts can hold for weight loads.

Driving with the loads is totally different. You have to accelerate and decelerate.

The biggest limitation vehicles have with regards to towing and payload is braking.

Payload still matters. If you had a 5,000 pound trailer, it is advisable to make sure you have 15-25 percent of the weight as tongue weight. Using 20% as a guide, that would be 1,000 pounds. So - in theory, with my Gladiator, empty (meaning not even me in it) I could not haul that 5,000 pound trailer 'legally'. now if I wanted to risk the 15% rule, then it would be 750 pounds tongue weight. With me in it, that maxes out my GVW. Meaning I could 'legally' tow, with literally nothing else and nobody else in the vehicle. A lot of people don't consider this. And maybe in 'function' it doesn't have a huge impact. but in the event someone ignores this, is carrying 800 pounds of people, water, and gear, PLUS towing a 5,000 pound trailer, and if they are in an accident - the insurance company could very likely place them 100% at fault and liable for any and all costs associated. Some states are actually VERY picky about that. I recently moved away from one of them. So it is something serious to pay attention to.

But I am more than willing to bet a years salary that 75%....er...better make that 85% of all 'overland' Gladiators, and Jeep of any kind really, is over GVW and putting themselves in a legal liability.

So payload is what you put in the truck, but anything that you attach counts against that payload. It is also worth noting that it is entirely possible that if a person adds up payload, plus their rated towing capacity, that it will far exceed the listed CGVWR - combined gross vehicle weight rating = or the combined weight of vehicle + payload + trailer + trailer payload. For example, my old 7.3 F350 had a GVW of 9,200 pounds. A payload of 2,300 pounds, and a towing capacity of 14,000 pounds. With a curb weight (empty weight - full tanks of fuel, no people) of 6,900 pounds, plus a payload of 2,300 pounds, plus 20% of 14,000 = 12,000. Which would be 2,800 OVER GVW. It also had a CGVWR of - oh I think it was 20K? so in that example, a over max vehicle at 12,000 + the remaining trailer weight of 11,200 = 23,200 = or 3,200 pounds OVER GCVWR. So its not as simple as just saying X pounds of payload and X pounds of towing capacity. Some math is required.

 

[PyrPatriot]

I do have one last question, I have not found in any of my manuals where it says payload is based on 150LB driver, Other makes and models have done that in the past and I think we assume that's the case here but I haven't seen it anywhere. Would be nice if it were true....

JJ

I cited it in one of my early threads. It is in the manual and in one of Jeep's spec sheets. Will try to find it

ETA: found it. But may no lomger be official and Jeep may have removed it?

Ok, I found the 150lb allowance! It's on Jeep's website. Go to the Gladiator, scroll down to where you can look at the different packages, "Make the Gladiator Your Own" section, and choose the Max Tow Package. Where it says "Gross Vehicle Weight Rating( Disclosure17)—6,250 Pounds" you hit the 17 and it pops up saying "Assumes properly equipped vehicle and 150 lb allowance for driver. Additional options, equipment, passengers, and cargo must be subtracted" Will email Jeep on clarifying, because if that's the case then my max payload is (6250+150)-4672 (curb weight given to me by Jeep) = 1728lbs. However, the Tire and Loading Information on the door frame says Max Payload of 1544lbs

I may actually go to a weigh station and weigh my jeep as it is (nothing has been added yet). Because we're talking almost 200lbs of payload difference. Emailing Jeep today

I found another instance of the driver weight allotment. See at the bottom: GCVWR = Base Weight + Gross Trailer Weight + 150lbs for Driver

 

[ShadowsPapa]

If you had a 5,000 pound trailer, it is advisable to make sure you have 15-25 percent of the weight as tongue weight. Using 20% as a guide, that would be 1,000 pounds.

Whew, I hope that was a typo. No way. 10% as a general rule, up to 15% for some trailers. No more.
I tow a 5,000 load and 10% is the recommended tongue weight from the manufacturer of the trailer. If I recall, 15 is for lighter trailers, 10 for heavier trailers.
That much tongue weight would break things and I don't know of any receiver on a JT that will handle that weight.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I cited it in one of my early threads. It is in the manual and in one of Jeep's spec sheets. Will try to find it

ETA: found it. But may no lomger be official and Jeep may have removed it?

That one talks towing but I have seen it mentioned for payload and the ford guys even say Ford used to allow 150 pounds for the driver on PAYLOAD.
Doesn't take much digging in Google to find examples of such discussions. It was talked about with the JT when I first bought mine. And I recall looking as people were disagreeing on it, and I found it under payload, and on Ford forums.

 

[NC_Overland]

Maybe this one should be merged into one of the more massive threads started a couple of years ago because all that can be said has been said. Anything else will be simply repeating what's been said, more opinions to the contrary, new folks chiming in, etc.
Nothing is going to change beyond what's been covered.



As for that, it's not the weight of the rims, it's the weight handling capability and characteristics of those rims. IF you put on certain aftermarket wheels/rims, you have to go by what they handle.
So it doesn't count the weight, that's counting the capability of those rims.
It means - this can handle this assuming these rims are in place - rims that can't handle that load decrease the payload (but rims that can handle more won't increase it)
Been this route before in other forums where wheel replacement was discussed and some had some nice rims - but didn't bother reading the new rims had a lower load rating.

Those rims have been tested to handle that load. That's all that means.

You ever notice how many people swap JL Rubicon wheels onto their JTs when Jeep specifically spec’d heavier, stronger wheels on the JT for payload purposes.

 

[PyrPatriot]

You ever notice how many people swap JL Rubicon wheels onto their JTs when Jeep specifically spec’d heavier, stronger wheels on the JT for payload purposes.

Yes and they shouldnt in most circumstances

 

[ShadowsPapa]

You ever notice how many people swap JL Rubicon wheels onto their JTs when Jeep specifically spec’d heavier, stronger wheels on the JT for payload purposes.

You know me and my posts - how many times have I mentioned swapping parts with either no plan, or no consideration for what else may be impacted.............

 

[MPMB]

Payload still matters. <snip>

Never said it didn't.

I'm just explaining that people who don't really give a s**t (salespeople) will not know, not bother to know, or just get confused on the difference between payload and towing capacity, and how each number is derived. When people are starting out, they believe the sales delivery and that leads to more confusion.

Also, in all the trailering forums/posts I've read, tongue weight is 10-15% of trailer weight, and overall trailer weight should be 15-20% less than max towing capacity as a rule of thumb. It's been a while since I've slung hitches and wired trucks, but I don't think that has changed much in 20+ years.

 

[AwesomeDad]

I really enjoyed the discussion, I’ve been on RV boards for years specifically for truck campers and those threads go off the rails on payload. But your talking 5-6K in the bed. And there is always those wanting to justify overloading their rig. I’m simply wanting real world numbers to work with so we can enjoy our new camper….

 

[Iamstubb]

I really enjoyed the discussion, I’ve been on RV boards for years specifically for truck campers and those threads go off the rails on payload. But your talking 5-6K in the bed. And there is always those wanting to justify overloading their rig. I’m simply wanting real world numbers to work with so we can enjoy our new camper….

Got my eye on one of those as well. Seems like a perfect fit.

 

[Iamstubb]

Dumb luck for me on payload. Didn't think too much about it because I mostly wanted a manual. But the manual JTR seems to do pretty well with a #1249 payload rating. I swapped the rock sliders out for tubular side steps. Those sliders are heavy steel. I think both tubes weigh less than a single slider. So maybe I gained a little more capacity there, which will make up for potentially adding a bumper/winch (I already have a wench). Post holiday salads should help as well. But nice knowing that even with #450 tongue weight from a trailer there is decent payload capacity remaining.

 

[AwesomeDad]

Got my eye on one of those as well. Seems like a perfect fit.

It really is bigger on the inside. We had 6 people in it comfortably....

JJ

 

[ShadowsPapa]

It really is bigger on the inside. We had 6 people in it comfortably....

JJ

Tardis?

 

[brianinca]

Diesel Rubicon? My gasser JTR says 1236.

Weird, my sticker stock says 1043

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