Clayton 3.5 Kit & 37s... is this normal?

[jwoz]

Sorry for my irritated tone........You gotta understand my point of view to get where I'm coming from. I should probably just step away from the forums if I cant filter the idiocracy of what I read. I've lived this business and hobby for 30+ years when all of this stuff had to be hand built and engineered by the installer.....Not like today where spoiled rich kids stack stuff on that just looks cool, but doesn't play well together.

Sorry the brodozer thing offended, but how else do you describe a super heavy wheel combo that was moved away from the spindle 2.5-3.5"? Its a recipe for disaster except for smooth roads so long as you aren't trying to stop fast......

Ever heard of a load inflation chart? Every manufacturer has one that you can determine the correct tire pressure for the axles weight. You can then dial in to your likes from there. You also have a 9.5" wide wheel, so that width adds additional air volume that would require less pressure too. This will probably be your biggest single improvement and its FREE!

I'm guessing you land at 23-27psi. I personally run 25 front and 24 rear with my unloaded heavier diesel and add more out back as I add weight from towing or motorcycle.

Turn your front shock clickers all the way in and see if it helps. A couple of clicks at a time you won't probably notice if you aren't sensitive to what you are looking for. My rule for adjustment is 3 clicks at a time till it feels like I went too far, then dial it back 1 or 2.

I know this is the internet, so opinions are worth what you pay for them. A person can learn a lot when they just listen to the guys that really know wtf they are doing. Don't take it all for the gospel....trust, but verify.

You have a lot invested here, so it would be nice if you could smile when you are driving your truck.

No worries! Can't say I haven't been there before.

I'll be the first to admit my lack of knowledge and know how when it comes to all of this stuff. Definitely just a weekend warrior that prefers the driving to wrenching. Can't hold a candle to anyone with experience, especially when it can be measured in decades. Heck I haven't even been alive 30 years, It's the reason I came and posted for help; completely out of my element. Which in turn makes it difficult to filter the good opinions from bad. It seems like things I'd assume would be fairly clear cut or obvious have all sorts of conflicting view points.

Ultimately I'm just looking to avoid potential safety issues, I don't mind it driving like a jalopy, it'll still make me smile as long as its not going to shake me into oncoming traffic.

It was raining last night, so I wasn't able to mess around with the tires, but I'm planning to try that out tonight after work and will post back with results. My fingers are crossed on it making further improvements. Definitely a fan of saving money because as much as I wish I was a spoiled rich kid I'm not... though maybe if I trade up to some heavier M/T's, 50 light bars, and a -44 offset wheel I can will that reality into existence....

Really appreciate guys like you taking the time out of your day to post stuff and help out.

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[CrazyCooter]

No worries! Can't say I haven't been there before.

I'll be the first to admit my lack of knowledge and know how when it comes to all of this stuff. Definitely just a weekend warrior that prefers the driving to wrenching. Can't hold a candle to anyone with experience, especially when it can be measured in decades. Heck I haven't even been alive 30 years, It's the reason I came and posted for help; completely out of my element. Which in turn makes it difficult to filter the good opinions from bad. It seems like things I'd assume would be fairly clear cut or obvious have all sorts of conflicting view points.

Ultimately I'm just looking to avoid potential safety issues, I don't mind it driving like a jalopy, it'll still make me smile as long as its not going to shake me into oncoming traffic.

It was raining last night, so I wasn't able to mess around with the tires, but I'm planning to try that out tonight after work and will post back with results. My fingers are crossed on it making further improvements. Definitely a fan of saving money because as much as I wish I was a spoiled rich kid I'm not... though maybe if I trade up to some heavier M/T's, 50 light bars, and a -44 offset wheel I can will that reality into existence....

Really appreciate guys like you taking the time out of your day to post stuff and help out.

Yes, the internet is super hard when you are trying to filter. Everyone can be an expert especially if the are very well written......That's not me. I dropped out of high school finishing years later, so I'm not a scholar, but I do know my way under a vehicle.

I also worked at a super high end alignment shop for 8 years.......The one that fixed vibrations and did alignments that nobody else within 100's of miles could. I've been there, seen that. You haven't lived in the alignment world till you are twisting caster into a 20K+lb steer axle with 100+ tons of force chopping 1" thick steel blocks in half while they stick in the concrete pit wall! That said....... .5-1° caster is not something you are going to feel. Increase caster if you think the steering is too quick at higher speeds. I personally run the least caster I can to allow a more sporty feel, reduce tire wear, reduce loads on the steering system, and allow me to drive faster in reverse (think negative caster when going backward).

One thing I CAN tell you with absolute certainty.........Your shocks do not have enough rebound damping for Clayton's spring rates. If you have a look at my shock tuning thread, you can see the progression of my tuning and how bad/disappointing those shocks are out of the box on a JT especially with springs that have rates high enough to actually use the truck.

From your inside video, I'm envisioning your tires leaving the ground momentarily do to poor damping on sharp bumps creating a high speed moment in your shock shafts and then they are slamming back down on the pavement creating what I call the double or triple bump in the chassis........This about that 160lb basketball analogy I referred to before. Imagine trying to dribble that and keep it under control when it hits a small pebble on the ground........

 

[Burghardphotography]

Just an update: I’ve been driving my newly built rig now for 3 days on 37’s with a -25 offset, and it is buttery smooth with zero issues. So people can stop the offset rants now haha

 

[jwoz]

So of course I go to pull out and start working on the tires and I see a "brake" light up on the dash, which i assumed was just the assist turned on from my taser; Nope it looks like my brake line broke?... I look under the truck and just see fluid everywhere. I didn't notice any tears in the line so not sure how to go about diagnosing it and of course its 5pm on a Friday now so I can't take it to any shops. Any ideas on what could cause the leak? Something loose or over tightened? It looks like it lines up with the paint mark they made...

 

[Rusty PW]

So of course I go to pull out and start working on the tires and I see a "brake" light up on the dash, which i assumed was just the assist turned on from my taser; Nope it looks like my brake line broke?... I look under the truck and just see fluid everywhere. I didn't notice any tears in the line so not sure how to go about diagnosing it and of course its 5pm on a Friday now so I can't take it to any shops. Any ideas on what could cause the leak? Something loose or over tightened? It looks like it lines up with the paint mark they made...

Where is it leaking at? At where the metal tube screws into the fitting? Or where the hose goes into the crimp? Fill the brake reservoir up and and have a friend press on the brake pedal and you watching that area for leaks. If it's leaking where the metal tube goes into the fitting. You can tighten that up yourself. If it's leaking at the hose/crimp area. you need a new hose. Either way. The brakes will need to be bled after the fix.

 

[jwoz]

Where is it leaking at? At where the metal tube screws into the fitting? Or where the hose goes into the crimp? Fill the brake reservoir up and and have a friend press on the brake pedal and you watching that area for leaks. If it's leaking where the metal tube goes into the fitting. You can tighten that up yourself. If it's leaking at the hose/crimp area. you need a new hose. Either way. The brakes will need to be bled after the fix.

Thanks for the advice. It was definitely coming from the hose; I know hard to tell from that picture. I was able to take it somewhere this morning and they confirmed it's a leak and it needs to be replaced. I just went and ordered a new one from Clayton's site, but I have to say it's a bit unnerving knowing the line didn't even hold up for 500 on road miles... @Clayton Off Road Is this a common problem you've heard of with the brake lines?

 

[RaiderGladiator]

how tall are your bump stops?

3”

 

[Lynn_F]

No worries! Can't say I haven't been there before.

I'll be the first to admit my lack of knowledge and know how when it comes to all of this stuff. Definitely just a weekend warrior that prefers the driving to wrenching. Can't hold a candle to anyone with experience, especially when it can be measured in decades. Heck I haven't even been alive 30 years, It's the reason I came and posted for help; completely out of my element. Which in turn makes it difficult to filter the good opinions from bad. It seems like things I'd assume would be fairly clear cut or obvious have all sorts of conflicting view points.

Ultimately I'm just looking to avoid potential safety issues, I don't mind it driving like a jalopy, it'll still make me smile as long as its not going to shake me into oncoming traffic.

It was raining last night, so I wasn't able to mess around with the tires, but I'm planning to try that out tonight after work and will post back with results. My fingers are crossed on it making further improvements. Definitely a fan of saving money because as much as I wish I was a spoiled rich kid I'm not... though maybe if I trade up to some heavier M/T's, 50 light bars, and a -44 offset wheel I can will that reality into existence....

Really appreciate guys like you taking the time out of your day to post stuff and help out.

So I have some experience with this same issue and if you don't resolve it then DW is likely soon to follow. On my 3.6 2020 gladiator I initially installed a skyjacker 3.5" lift with a Fox TS stabilizer. I drove it for about 10k miles before the issues started. I went through the same stuff with the shop that installed it - tightened and aligned to the "factory" specs. Problems persisted and so I started throwing $ at it. Thr 1st thing I did was buy MC heavy duty steering...looked beautiful and was noticeably heavier duty but the problems persisted. I then replaced the shocks and upgraded my lower front CAs. I had a different shop install the CA's and it helped a lot but I could still feel the shimmy between 45-55mph and had a rail crossing on my way to work that would trigger it every time at the right speed. I continued to pour $ into it and purchased the rest of the CA's and got rid of the SJ springs and moved to Evo springs. The 3 things I did that seemed to make the biggest difference were to add geometry brackets to the front CAs, do the drag link flip/track bar relocation kit, and the rear track bar relocation kit. They were the 3 cheapest items to buy and essentially gave me enough castor, and removed the bump steer by decreasing the angles on my drag link, front and rear track bars. After this it drove like a dream. Oh yeah that was on 22" -18mm offset wheels with 40's. I now have a diesel with 6.5" lift 40x14.50r20 tires on a -44 offset. The lift I'm running came with the geo & rear track bar brackets. I carried over my steering components and the drag link flip/front track bar bracket. I think I'm at ~130lbs a corner and have had 0 issues at 12k miles. I hope this helps.

 

[Oak]

My money is on the negative offset wheels. Keep this in mind. Nothing good happens if your offset is too wide.
1. Wear out ball joints quicker due to increased leverage. With the stock joints it’s only a question of when, not if. With -18, you’ll visit that expense quicker.
2. Increase your scrub radius
3. At highway speeds the drag from your tires can cause a toe out condition. Dynatrac or Eddie with [Banned Site] has a great video on this.

Same backspacing only they are abrahms. I have run 38s patagonia and now 37x13 nitto. Never had an issue that he described and I'm only on the mopar 2 inch lift.

 

[Dougstdig]

Same backspacing only they are abrahms. I have run 38s patagonia and now 37x13 nitto. Never had an issue that he described and I'm only on the mopar 2 inch lift.

??

What are your thoughts on the 2 inch Mopar system? I just priced out a JL Mopar system for my buddy with JKS quicker Disco’s, front and rear Clayton track bars and a taser mini for $2,343.65. While a comparable system for my JTRD is a couple hundred dollars more expensive I don’t need the JKS quick disconnects so they’re pretty close to being even. The Clayton system is $2699 with no shocks or taser, so it’s reasonable to think I’d be 1500 to 1800 over before tires and wheels. Just following along with what’s going on with the economy and how I think things will continue to get worse for the for the foreseeable future, I may just be trying to talk myself out of doing anything.

 

[Oak]

??

What are your thoughts on the 2 inch Mopar system? I just priced out a JL Mopar system for my buddy with JKS quicker Disco’s, front and rear Clayton track bars and a taser mini for $2,343.65. While a comparable system for my JTRD is a couple hundred dollars more expensive I don’t need the JKS quick disconnects so they’re pretty close to being even. The Clayton system is $2699 with no shocks or taser, so it’s reasonable to think I’d be 1500 to 1800 over before tires and wheels. Just following along with what’s going on with the economy and how I think things will continue to get worse for the for the foreseeable future, I may just be trying to talk myself out of doing anything.

It was fine before I added the weight but not so great offroad on inclines.

I'm looking at the Clayton lift and falcon shocks.

 

[Jefe1018]

2) Tires are over inflated assuming you truck doesn't have a bunch of armor plating bolted on. A 37x12.50 on a 9.5" wheel will probably land somewhere between 23-26 psi on an unloaded Gladiator.

Really? 23-26 psi for daily driving? That seems awfully low to me.

 

[CrazyCooter]

Really? 23-26 psi for daily driving? That seems awfully low to me.

https://www.toyotires.com/tires-101/tire-load-and-inflation-tables/

Don't believe what I say........Consult with the load inflation chart and you will see 37x12.50R17's are good up to 2150lb ea single @ 25psi. Higher air volumes require lower air pressures to do the job. In theory a wider wheel should require less air than a narrow wheel from the increased volume, but the load inflation chart does not factor that in.

My steer axle weighs 3400-3600lb and I seem to like 25-27psi depending on road and driving conditions. Drive axle weighs 3,000 unloaded and I like 24-26psi back there unless hauling a load and then I air up accordingly.

I'm playing with my 38's now and they are even more sensitive to pressure fluctuations from heat and elevation changes due to the increased volume. 1-2 psi over 24-25psi and I start feeling every crack in the road.

 

[Jefe1018]

https://www.toyotires.com/tires-101/tire-load-and-inflation-tables/

Don't believe what I say........Consult with the load inflation chart and you will see 37x12.50R17's are good up to 2150lb ea single @ 25psi. Higher air volumes require lower air pressures to do the job. In theory a wider wheel should require less air than a narrow wheel from the increased volume, but the load inflation chart does not factor that in.

My steer axle weighs 3400-3600lb and I seem to like 25-27psi depending on road and driving conditions. Drive axle weighs 3,000 unloaded and I like 24-26psi back there unless hauling a load and then I air up accordingly.

I'm playing with my 38's now and they are even more sensitive to pressure fluctuations from heat and elevation changes due to the increased volume. 1-2 psi over 24-25psi and I start feeling every crack in the road.

I actually kept reading and a lot of what you said makes sense. Thanks for the reference I’ll do some studying on the matter.

 

[CrazyCooter]

I actually kept reading and a lot of what you said makes sense. Thanks for the reference I’ll do some studying on the matter.

I know it defys what people have been doing and recommending for years, but I can tell you without a doubt it makes a huge difference in ride quality and traction.

I question everything and search for the correct answer even if its not popular belief. The internet is the best tool once you filter out the garbage being spoon fed.

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