Clutch Recall (2/23/23): Clutch Pressure Plate May Overheat -- Affecting 70,000 Manual Jeep Wranglers and Gladiators

[ErrngeElise]

Really curious to hear what the actual "fix" is

Yea good point. My "new clutch" talk was really speculation based on wording in the recall but there is no remedy listed and there is no evidence that from the produced vehicles that they actually changed any hardware before making them. The only thing we can say is that there is likely another software change at the very least and we have to hope that they did more than that because that has only been a nuisance in the past and never a remedy. The software evidence is this 2023 Orders - Check in here | Page 985 | Jeep Wrangler Forums (JL / JLU) For Rubicon, 4xe, 392, Sahara, Sport - JLwranglerforums.com



Edit: I seem to have missed the last updated recall notification which states the clutch and software are both updated

RCLRPT-23V116-8530.PDF (nhtsa.gov)

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[ErrngeElise]

This is a matter of perception. If they have a fix inaccessible to me, is that any functionally different from not having a fix?

I've never been on the screaming about it side, but i do have empathy for those concerned that 5 months after they announce (again) their gladiator could catch on fire they still are just barely rolling this out.

For what it's worth: the most realistic scenario is that they knew how to fix it definitively LONG before the 3rd recall was announced, and have spent the first two recalls plus the intervening months trying to figure out how to fix it the cheapest way possible.

I may not be loud about it, but i have compassion for those that are.

It's all about perspective. I ordered a 6MT knowing the clutch sucked and planned to replace it with an ACT unit. From the other perspective, if you already bought it not knowing the clutch sucked then yea that's rough. The difference is you can get mad about it enough to replace it like so many people have and roll with the punches. Or you can wait patiently to see what the remedy is. It sucks but being angry about it won't make it happen any faster. Anyone who is that worried about it should take matters into their own hands.

 

[Rahkmalla]

It's all about perspective. I ordered a 6MT knowing the clutch sucked and planned to replace it with an ACT unit. From the other perspective, if you already bought it not knowing the clutch sucked then yea that's rough. The difference is you can get mad about it enough to replace it like so many people have and roll with the punches. Or you can wait patiently to see what the remedy is. It sucks but being angry about it won't make it happen any faster. Anyone who is that worried about it should take matters into their own hands.

I'm over here rolling with the punches. I'm not worried about a fire as mine seems fine and has no issues with slippage (i chirp 2nd gear once a month or so just to test it out ever since the recall announcement in February). Frankly, the longer this goes the better it is for me as the way I see it: i get a new free clutch (the remedy proposed by the 3rd recall notice) further down the line. Due to the weight of the truck, i have a hard time imagining any clutch outlasting 125k miles maybe 150k tops, so if i get about 8-15k miles on my old clutch before they replace it for free, that's just icing on my cake.

But just because a Gladiator is a non-luxurious luxury doesn't mean everyone who owns one and is concerned for their safety has the available funds just burning a hole in their pocket to just go get a new one. Some people are definitely in the "i already spent 50-60k on this truck, i didn't sign up for another 2-3 just because Jeep engineers screwed up" camp.

 

[ErrngeElise]

I'm over here rolling with the punches. I'm not worried about a fire as mine seems fine and has no issues with slippage (i chirp 2nd gear once a month or so just to test it out ever since the recall announcement in February). Frankly, the longer this goes the better it is for me as the way I see it: i get a new free clutch (the remedy proposed by the 3rd recall notice) further down the line. Due to the weight of the truck, i have a hard time imagining any clutch outlasting 125k miles maybe 150k tops, so if i get about 8-15k miles on my old clutch before they replace it for free, that's just icing on my cake.

But just because a Gladiator is a non-luxurious luxury doesn't mean everyone who owns one and is concerned for their safety has the available funds just burning a hole in their pocket to just go get a new one. Some people are definitely in the "i already spent 50-60k on this truck, i didn't sign up for another 2-3 just because Jeep engineers screwed up" camp.

Yea see you are making the best of this shit sandwich. But there is nothing that limits anyone to that option. The way I see it there are 3 options:
1. Wait patiently and monitor closely. Be informed of the situation and learn to check for it. Personally I would occasionally floor it in a fairly high gear and see if slips. Same way you test any other clutch. Especially since a lot of the fires sound like they happened on the highway.
2. Fork over the money and get a CF or ACT unit.
3. Sell the vehicle and buy something else.
All of the options suck but being mad about it is a terrible way to handle it and not an option.

 

[tarndesigns]

Yea see you are making the best of this shit sandwich. But there is nothing that limits anyone to that option. The way I see it there are 3 options:
1. Wait patiently and monitor closely. Be informed of the situation and learn to check for it. Personally I would occasionally floor it in a fairly high gear and see if slips. Same way you test any other clutch. Especially since a lot of the fires sound like they happened on the highway.
2. Fork over the money and get a CF or ACT unit.
3. Sell the vehicle and buy something else.
All of the options suck but being mad about it is a terrible way to handle it and not an option.

Have you owned a JL or JT 6MT previously? I had a 2018 JL Rubicon 6MT & have had approximately 7-8 Manual Transmission cars. The JL clutch wasn't bad! Only reason I'd replace it in the JT is if I was concerned about it catching fire LOL

 

[ErrngeElise]

Have you owned a JL or JT 6MT previously? I had a 2018 JL Rubicon 6MT & have had approximately 7-8 Manual Transmission cars. The JL clutch wasn't bad! Only reason I'd replace it in the JT is if I was concerned about it catching fire LOL

No, I haven't owned a JT or JL 6MT. Other than a brief test drive of one, I have limited experience behind the wheel of a borrowed JT 6MT as well. While I wasn't impressed with how vague the clutch pedal felt, most of the concern is because when I ordered they had 2 recalls already and I knew neither of those replaced the clutch. I was hoping they at least had a redesigned clutch in new builds but the fact that they never changed the clutch on the previous vehicles was enough for me to factor in replacement of it, if needed, in my purchase.

I'm really picky with clutch feel. I don't want a super heavy clutch so the twin disc seems like a nice benefit but this clutch is so light feeling its vague. If they wanted to keep that small of a diameter and keep the inertia low they could have increased the spring force and not had this slipping issue and still not had an overly heavy clutch.

 

[redriderjf87]

Have you owned a JL or JT 6MT previously? I had a 2018 JL Rubicon 6MT & have had approximately 7-8 Manual Transmission cars. The JL clutch wasn't bad!

I don't know about the 2018 JL and any possible differences, but the JT's clutch engagement is unnecessarily bad, for a general design that's simple and proven over decades and decades. Even separate from the safety issues.

I'm also comparing to 4 previous MT vehicles I've owned of different types, ages, and power output (never owned an auto).

 

[Rahkmalla]

I don't know about the 2018 JL and any possible differences, but the JT's clutch engagement is unnecessarily bad, for a general design that's simple and proven over decades and decades. Even separate from the safety issues.

I'm also comparing to 4 previous MT vehicles I've owned of different types, ages, and power output (never owned an auto).

Maybe i'm speaking in pedantics here, but i prefer to call it nuance...

I wouldn't classify the JT clutch engagement as "bad" but rather "lacking feedback". To me poor clutch engagement qualifies as unpredictable or weak. The JT is neither. The problem is, because it lacks feedback i imagine it's extremely problematic to manual drivers who are... let's say less precise than average. It definitely requires a feel and tells you, either through it's lack of power or rattle, when you've made a mistake.

 

[redriderjf87]

Maybe i'm speaking in pedantics here, but i prefer to call it nuance...

I wouldn't classify the JT clutch engagement as "bad" but rather "lacking feedback". To me poor clutch engagement qualifies as unpredictable or weak. The JT is neither. The problem is, because it lacks feedback i imagine it's extremely problematic to manual drivers who are... let's say less precise than average. It definitely requires a feel and tells you, either through it's lack of power or rattle, when you've made a mistake.

I disagree.

It is unpredictable, which makes it difficult to naturally and smoothly engage. "Lacking feedback" is also "bad" (that's not a good thing, right?)

If it was predictable, then you would quickly learn the point and speed of pedal engagement and there would be no issues smoothly taking off and shifting.

That's not the case for this design. Many people stall or buck off the line, or "clunk" between shifts.

I've only owned manuals since I've started driving, and I'm OCD about being smooth and not burning anything up. I have to consciously think about finding the engagement point and letting out extra slow in order for a smooth engagement. That's bad, not good.


Therefore, things that are not good, I call "bad". Not a "nuance", which is a cop-out word game.

 

[SteveInOrlando]

Maybe i'm speaking in pedantics here, but i prefer to call it nuance...

I wouldn't classify the JT clutch engagement as "bad" but rather "lacking feedback". To me poor clutch engagement qualifies as unpredictable or weak. The JT is neither. The problem is, because it lacks feedback i imagine it's extremely problematic to manual drivers who are... let's say less precise than average. It definitely requires a feel and tells you, either through it's lack of power or rattle, when you've made a mistake.

Spoken like a true Jeep fanatic!

Part of the reason they weren't afraid to put that defective design in the Jeep is they know the dedicated will just say it is a Jeep thing and put up with it.

I have been driving manual transmission cars and trucks for almost 40 years. The stock OEM clutch was the single worst clutch I have ever encountered.

My wife learned to drive in the Mountains in PA in a manual. She struggled with the piece of crap also. Simply stated, that clutch is a hazard and should NEVER have been produced!

 

[Rahkmalla]

It is unpredictable, which makes it difficult to naturally and smoothly engage. "Lacking feedback" is also "bad" (that's not a good thing, right?)

If it was predictable, then you would quickly learn the point and speed of pedal engagement and there would be no issues smoothly taking off and shifting.

And if i were to tell you i have no issues smoothly taking off and shifting?

 

[JTDay]

Some with 4.10 gears might not say it's that bad but with 3.73s, I think it's pretty much terrible. The "feel" of the engagement and disengagement is snappy and there's not enough inertia to easily move a 5000lb vehicle out of its way in my opinion. This is what Phoenix Friction has to say about twin discs:

"Double clutches aren't bad, per se, they're just not good for most vehicles and applications. This is because:

1. Most of the double disc systems are hard to drive. After the break-in period, double disc clutches become only slightly more drivable than they were before. Simply stated, double disc setups don't allow for feathering. Either the clutch is engaged fully or it's not engaged at all. Smooth take-offs from a stoplight? Nearly impossible. Stop and go? Towing in reverse? Be ready to hate driving."

I think the general manual trans experience in these trucks is pretty bad and the clutch is only one slice of the 4 or 5 slice pie but it's definitely a piece of crap clutch if it can barely hold 265 lb ft or torque, according to ACT, from a twin disc application.

Watch stellantis not update/change the clutch design at all and instead install some sort of actual temperature monitoring nanny in the bellhousing instead of the reference tables used in the ECU now. If the clutch was fixed, the transmission had closer ratios, and the final gearing was shorter, I think I'd be ultimately satisfied.

 

[Rahkmalla]

Some with 4.10 gears might not say it's that bad but with 3.73s, I think it's pretty much terrible.

JT manuals i've driven:
Mojave brand new
Mojave broken-in
willys sport brand new
sport s brand new

What i find interesting is the position that 4.10 would make things easier when one of the most common complaints of the gearbox (not the clutch) is that 1st gear is too short.

Simply stated, double disc setups don't allow for feathering. Either the clutch is engaged fully or it's not engaged at all. Smooth take-offs from a stoplight? Nearly impossible. Stop and go? Towing in reverse? Be ready to hate driving

I agree a traditional clutch would be better. But the idea that this clutch is on or off and cannot be feathered is just wrong. Sure, the JT clutch has a smaller window, but it's nothing a little experience doesn't fix. Smooth take-offs are no issue. Stop and go? I work in Philadelphia. Stop and go was my life. Dont even ask about those 12 days where 95 collapsed.

Towing in reverse? Okay yea, that would be a nightmare. Reversing up a gravel incline sure is. Reverse is way too tall.

 

[JTDay]

4.10 is easier than 3.73 from a stop. Torque as the axle is going to be higher all else being equal. That's what I was referring to mainly. The first gear thing is preference I suppose. I've always had close ratio sports cars before the JT so I only used 1st to get moving from a dead stop. I once had a car buddy, after having ridden with another friend and then with me, ask "why do you and Chris shift out of 1st so early"? Preference I guess. 1st isn't so short, 2 and 3 are just tall as crap comparatively. Edit: see chart.

And the contention isn't necessarily the clutch is impossible to modulate or feather, it just requires a lot more of my attention than any other car I've owned by a LONG shot. I'm used to starting in 1st with clutch only so the JT requiring 1000+ rpm during clutch pedal release is just annoying as hell. I think this is where most of us complainers are coming from. It could easily be just a standard clutch that we're all used to but for some reason, FCA decided to go with a full on moron design in 2018 thats on recall #3 now.

 

[ErrngeElise]

And the contention isn't necessarily the clutch is impossible to modulate or feather, it just requires a lot more of my attention than any other car I've owned by a LONG shot.

This is my complaint. In general I prefer a clutch with a single mass flywheel and I prefer the shifter to be connected to the transmission directly (not cable operated). You can't always get both of those, DMFs are common these days (some people prefer them), and the JT/JL is DMF and cable operated shifter. Not the end of the world but those are the top two things that ruin the feel for me.

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