NPS cancels AWD vehichles ( probably always has). I agree with concept but not their verbiage . #Read

[Uparms]

https://jalopnik.com/national-park-service-will-cite-drivers-of-awd-cars-for-1851617315

I been wanting to drive one of these Cross Treks as a possible daily to help build and save mileage on my 23JT.

Content discusses Pros and Cons 4WD and AWD, but I think the writer misses a point that there are a heck a lot of "unelectable diffs" out there that are not too much dissimilar then some AWD. Fun short read.

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[Lap it Up]

The writer misses the point and so does NPS if they don't have specific requirements for 4WD vehicles.

I attend the Jeepin' with Sheriff Judd event every year. They offer specific trails for specific jeeps. Stock, moderate, and advanced. Advanced trails require minimum a lift, minimum 35's, and at least one locker. The NPS could evaluate their trail system in a similar fashion cause we all know an open front and rear stock jeep ain't much better than a Honda or Hyundia at a similar ride height.

 

[GI Grandpa]

The writer misses the point and so does NPS if they don't have specific requirements for 4WD vehicles.

I attend the Jeepin' with Sheriff Judd event every year. They offer specific trails for specific jeeps. Stock, moderate, and advanced. Advanced trails require minimum a lift, minimum 35's, and at least one locker. The NPS could evaluate their trail system in a similar fashion cause we all know an open front and rear stock jeep ain't much better than a Honda or Hyundia at a similar ride height.

Here in Colorado, most of the SUVs with AWD that get in trouble because their street tires fail them, not due to ground clearance, lack of locking differentials or no low range. Most all the trails that require high clearance, 4x4 and a low range state so in a sign at the trail head. We also have recently been asked to install a gate keeper on one trail to "keep the Subarus out" by the NFS, so clearly the Federal land managers see this as a problem however.

 

[bd100]

It'd be nicer if they defined "high clearance". Lifted Jeep, stock Jeep with 33s and Rubicon suspension, stock Jeep S with 32s and skid plates hanging down, or just how much ground clearance under the center?

 

[Wolf Island Diver]

It’s mostly not about AWD vs 4WD. It’s about clearance. They don’t want cars on trails, smashing their oil pans, requiring recovery and causing environmental damage. How many people on this forum wheel with a spill kit? Now how many Subi owners who randomly see a trail and say to themselves “hey that’ll be fun” carry one or any recovery gear at all. It’s probably close to zero.

Yeah, I’m sure you can find some hardcore Subaru owner with a winch mount and other nonsense but that’s the exception. That’s someone who really wanted to spend a lot of money on their inferior off road vehicle just to be different when they could have just used a stock 4Runner and saved money.

NPS didn’t do this in a vacuum. They did it because this has become a problem. NPS will always err on the side of restricting vehicle access, vs NFS, because of their charter. People need to stop taking commercials to heart. It’s like the guys who jump their stupid Ford Raptors exactly once because they saw it on TV. AWD cars come from shitty country lanes in France and gravel road racing. They’re great at what they’re designed for. They’re better in many conditions than a 4WD Jeep. They never were intended for Jeep trails and they have zero business on them.

 

[rharr]

Stupid Title, they aren't canceling anything, they are restricting vehicle type from accessing certain trails. Let's not over inflate something with political undertones that don't apply.

 

[Beat Army]

I had an outback a few vehicles ago. That thing was a beast and I beat the crap out of it. I drove it off road all over Texas…no issues….it got me out of several sticky situations with mud, snow, and sleet. I even towed with it. I never took it rock crawling or anything, but I thought the AWD system was great. It was super under powered though. You could disengage the ac compressor while getting into the freeway and feel the power “boost.”

 

[Lukasz]

It’s mostly not about AWD vs 4WD. It’s about clearance. They don’t want cars on trails, smashing their oil pans, requiring recovery and causing environmental damage. How many people on this forum wheel with a spill kit? Now how many Subi owners who randomly see a trail and say to themselves “hey that’ll be fun” carry one or any recovery gear at all. It’s probably close to zero.

Yeah, I’m sure you can find some hardcore Subaru owner with a winch mount and other nonsense but that’s the exception. That’s someone who really wanted to spend a lot of money on their inferior off road vehicle just to be different when they could have just used a stock 4Runner and saved money.

NPS didn’t do this in a vacuum. They did it because this has become a problem. NPS will always err on the side of restricting vehicle access, vs NFS, because of their charter. People need to stop taking commercials to heart. It’s like the guys who jump their stupid Ford Raptors exactly once because they saw it on TV. AWD cars come from shitty country lanes in France and gravel road racing. They’re great at what they’re designed for. They’re better in many conditions than a 4WD Jeep. They never were intended for Jeep trails and they have zero business on them.

Ground clearance is not an issue with Subarus. Some of them have as much ground clearance as stock Wranglers.
The CVT on the other hand...

 

[Jefe1018]

Who needs proper ground clearance, tires and lo range when I can just back up 20ft and skinny pedal my way out of all of it?

 

[JTGuy]

Will the NPS actually stop a AWD SUV from going on a 4x4 road?

 

[BourbonRunner]

FWIW the Crosstrek Wilderness is within about a half inch of a stock Wrangler sport's clearance and break overs are better IIRC.

That being said, It is the responsibility of that particular NPS unit to determine what vehicles are permissible on that specific land. If that superintendent says no AWDs and only high clearance 4x4's that's their call and we as enthusiasts must honor it. Tread lightly.

I do see a lot of AWD crossovers try to go down the beach at Assateague. The Subies and a few others in capable hands with appropriate measures (air down) and gear (tires, boards and a shovel) are just as capable in many respects as proper 4x4's. Problem is the people that don't know what they're doing and create issues. That's where the NPS drops the hammer on us all and it ain't good.

@OP: We have a 2013 Crosstrek with 211K miles. It has been a great, reliable and fuel efficient vehicle. Highly recommend as a commuter/daily driver if you decide to go that route. It has become our beater for now.

 

[Wolf Island Diver]

Ground clearance is not an issue with Subarus. Some of them have as much ground clearance as stock Wranglers.
The CVT on the other hand...

Of course it is. . You can’t compare a Wrangler to a Subaru even if it does have more clearance. The Wrangler will handle whatever clearance it has far better with solid axles, skid plates, extended axle breather tubes, overall design. I guarantee you it has better approach, departure and breakover angles than a Subaru. You can jack a Subaru to the sky and it will never be a Wrangler. Honestly, you can run 42s on a Gladiator and also won’t do all that a Wrangler can on 35s.

The other thing is that AWD is ubiquitous on small crossovers. A restriction on AWD doesn’t just apply to Subarus. It’s a restriction on my Mom’s CX-5 and my Dads RAV4 or a BMW 5 series or Audi which also have no business on a Jeep trail. Lamborghinis are all AWD. It’s ubiquitous and marketing has convinced people it equates to off road capability when it really equates to adverse conditions road safety. Don’t get me wrong. On fire roads, at speed, a Subaru is the absolute bomb.

I have zero doubt that the NPS is dealing with all sorts of small crossovers because of the bullshit marketing. I see them on trails and at the beach getting stuck and banged all to shit all the time. Their drivers are always totally shocked they can’t just drive their grocery getter out onto the beach in OBX or up some Jeep trail in the GWNF. They get stuck, block the entrance to the beach or the trail and someone in a Jeep or pickup has to rescue them. If it’s in a NP, it’s often rangers having to deal with them rather than doing their real jobs protecting the environment from idiots who do things like saw down Joshua Trees or f@&$ with the bears. It’s the same with drones. They banned them in parks because people can’t act intelligently or responsibly. Same with dogs off leash. The OBX rangers aren’t concerned with my dog fetching a frisbee. It’s the asshole that doesn’t control his dog and it starts digging up endangered sea turtle’s eggs or harassing nesting terns. If people could be trusted to apply common sense or gave a shit about the common good, these restrictions wouldn’t exist.

 

[Rahkmalla]

I do see a lot of AWD crossovers try to go down the beach at Assateague

Island Beach State Park in NJ is permit only, but allows AWD and 4WD to get permits. Last 4th of July wife and I got out there and noticed an awful lot of non-permitted vehicle trying to drive on the sand after we realized the permit checker ranger station was un-occupied.

Ford Escape: stuck at the entrance. 2 WK/WK2 GCs: stuck at the entrance. A handful of pilots and highlanders and whatever elses: stuck at the entrance. Meanwhile every truck, JL, 4runner, etc we saw with permits was fine.

What did they all the people stuck have in common? 1. They were all AWD. 2. They all weren't permitted. 3 They all had curiously well inflated tires.

If i were to guess which was the most significant contributing factor i'd guess #3. I think it all comes down to preparation. There's something about AWD just being automatic that makes the false confidence that comes with it automatic though. Sure there were plenty of AWD vehicles on the beach not stuck, but i didn't see a single 4x4 that was stuck.

 

[jn2275]

Last month I was in Colorado on Cinnamon Pass and got stuck behind a Volvo going down the switchbacks towards Animas Forks. He was dragging his hitch the whole way down and his trailer wiring harness was ripped off by the time he made it to the bottom. The annoying part was he was going less than 5 mph and wasn't getting over to let anyone pass him.

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[Zachanadandy]

The writer misses the point and so does NPS if they don't have specific requirements for 4WD vehicles.

I attend the Jeepin' with Sheriff Judd event every year. They offer specific trails for specific jeeps. Stock, moderate, and advanced. Advanced trails require minimum a lift, minimum 35's, and at least one locker. The NPS could evaluate their trail system in a similar fashion cause we all know an open front and rear stock jeep ain't much better than a Honda or Hyundia at a similar ride height.

The traction control of a JL or JT disagrees. The suspension travel would be less than half if you lifted a CRV to the sane height and cut the fenders entirely out to clear 37s. The cvt transmission won't apply power when there's a bunch of wheel slip and overheats quickly when it tries to. We've run the entire rubicon trail without using lockers (even though the JLUR has them), guess how many Honda's or Hyundai's I've seen out there in dozens of trips over the years? If you honestly think lockers are what separates a Jeep from a crossover you rely way more on the lockers than you need to. I like to try every obstacle without them first and they are rarely needed. I guess you could wheel like the TFL guys where you're in 4 LO on every dirt road and use both lockers every time there's a rock, but it's unnecessary.

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