How big of a winch do I really need?

[ShadowsPapa]

The snatch block is at different location than the winch line. Beginners question.

You kids keep trying. That is commendable. Hat's off to you.

Get to real world, kids.

Yeah, but the line comes back to you .... Check the videos showing the forces at each point.

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[WILDHOBO]

Everyone who runs a tiny winch says "just use a snatch block...or 2". That's 16-24k pounds. As far as bending the frame, maybe if you bolted the middle of the frame to something and started winching upwards at an angle? In the real world most of that force is on the axles, tires, etc that are what's stock in the mud anyway. Sure in a straight line pull a winch with more power could do more damage, add a single snatch block to an 8k and it's pulling harder. Rarely do you need a 12k+ pound pull, but often you'll find an 8k stalling out in my experience. Again I'd rather just hook up a straight pull to the nearest solid anchor and be on my way. I'm pretty sure the bumper on my rig said up to a 14k pound winch. The power wagons come with a 16.5k pound winch if I remember right. Better to have and not need and also a straight pull is safer than a multi- line pull. Clearly I have actually thought it thru and have decades of real world use that has me running a large winch on purpose. We were snapping the 10k pound rope in the pic below, dragging all 4 wheels on dry pavement, and 0 deflection in the bumper or frame. No a 13.5k won't rip your bumper off.

Thank you. Couldn’t agree more.

 

[WILDHOBO]

Thank you, Zach and Shadows. Evidently, My decades of winching mean nothing and you can consider me full-of-shit online.

That's fine. My experience means nothing and you folks are just an AI illusion in a Jeep forum.

An 8K winch is perfect for a JT. I have it. I use it.The rest is up to you all to decide.

I just don’t agree. Not even a little bit. I even think a 10k is borderline for gladiators. You can’t always add a snatch block. Many times, a straight pull is the only option in the situation. I’m not trusting an 8k for my 6,200lb vehicle on a 30 degree slope with a tire stuck. Nope. No way.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I just don’t agree. Not even a little bit. I even think a 10k is borderline for gladiators. You can’t always add a snatch block. Many times, a straight pull is the only option in the situation. I’m not trusting an 8k for my 6,200lb vehicle on a 30 degree slope with a tire stuck. Nope. No way.

You also have to think of duty cycle. If you have a duty cycle of xx seconds on and can pull yy feet in that time, then you use a pulley, you cut the distance the load is pulled in half during that on cycle. That means you have to run the winch twice as often, through twice as many on cycles and twice as many off cycles.
Winches aren't constant on - on for x, off for xx.
So you have to consider that as well.

BTW - did you see the video I posted months ago where the guy pulled his rig SIDEWAYS out of a ravine using a front mounted winch?

More pulleys mean there's a certain amount of loss due to the friction of the pulley and so on.

 

[Zachanadandy]

Thank you, Zach and Shadows. Evidently, My decades of winching mean nothing and you can consider me full-of-shit online.

That's fine. My experience means nothing and you folks are just an AI illusion in a Jeep forum.

An 8K winch is perfect for a JT. I have it. I use it.The rest is up to you all to decide.

I didn't question your experience or argue you can't make an 8k work, like I said 2 snatch blocks and you're pulling 24k (minus some friction losses). What I questioned was the fear of going bigger. Every time I've used a snatch block to increase pull strength the line is run back to the d-ring on the front bumper... that's bolted to the same frame horns as the winch. You aren't spreading the load. Now your pulling 16k on the front of your truck. The bumper doesn't rip off. The frame doesn't bend. If you've never run larger than an 8k you aren't sharing your experience you're sharing an opinion... and it's false. If you've never been stuck bad enough to need a snatch block or more than an 8k can pull in a single line pull that's great but that doesn't prove that nobody should run a bigger winch.

 

[bd100]

To answer the original question, at the minimum I'd recommend this 12,000lb hand winch, especially if you seldom go offroad:

https://www.wyeth-scott.com/

In our case, having the family means I have to take fewer risks. Medium trails at the worst. And I live in suburbia and only get out there once a year on average. When not offroading then you can leave the winch in the garage.

The rest of you may want to consider carrying one in case you have to go backwards, or someone else is in a strange position such that your own vehicle isn't near enough to help.

 

[WILDHOBO]

I didn't question your experience or argue you can't make an 8k work, like I said 2 snatch blocks and you're pulling 24k (minus some friction losses). What I questioned was the fear of going bigger. Every time I've used a snatch block to increase pull strength the line is run back to the d-ring on the front bumper... that's bolted to the same frame horns as the winch. You aren't spreading the load. Now your pulling 16k on the front of your truck. The bumper doesn't rip off. The frame doesn't bend. If you've never run larger than an 8k you aren't sharing your experience you're sharing an opinion... and it's false. If you've never been stuck bad enough to need a snatch block or more than an 8k can pull in a single line pull that's great but that doesn't prove that nobody should run a bigger winch.

Agreed. I forgot my other example. My tiny rear winch, which is tiny on purpose for storage and weight, is a Warn 5500. In snow, when I was not buried or on a slope, it wouldn’t do a straight pull on level ground. Don’t get me wrong, it’s not supposed to. It’s there for light stabilizing pulls, not full recoveries. But its capacity at the end of the wraps is about what my Jeep weighed that day. And there was no chance. With a snatch block, sure. It moved it easily. But my main 12k winch will move mine like it’s nothing, and it’ll do that at the first few wraps on the spindle.

 

[Bear Hunter]

I also use a Rough Country 9500 with synthetic rope and have pulled myself and many others out with no issues whatsoever. Works great and is affordable...

 

[whiteglad]

My HF 12k winch is an insurance policy. I hope to drive in and out without using it. I checked amp draws at different loads and wraps on the drum and found the 12K to draw less than the HF 9K for example. I figure there is a good chance that I won't have the line spooled all the way out and working off the innermost wrap, so I won't have pulling power anywhere near 12K. I also checked weights and with synthetic line, the 12K on the Arcus bumper is adding about 70 lb vs. stock plastic bumper.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I didn't question your experience or argue you can't make an 8k work, like I said 2 snatch blocks and you're pulling 24k (minus some friction losses). What I questioned was the fear of going bigger. Every time I've used a snatch block to increase pull strength the line is run back to the d-ring on the front bumper... that's bolted to the same frame horns as the winch. You aren't spreading the load. Now your pulling 16k on the front of your truck. The bumper doesn't rip off. The frame doesn't bend. If you've never run larger than an 8k you aren't sharing your experience you're sharing an opinion... and it's false. If you've never been stuck bad enough to need a snatch block or more than an 8k can pull in a single line pull that's great but that doesn't prove that nobody should run a bigger winch.

Thanks for saying what I was resisting saying.......

 

[Mr Miami]

If HF had a 10K Apex that weighed a little less I probably would have purchased that. But at about $480 (with coupon) for the 12k with synthetic line, I'm not sure how much less would they sell it for anyway. Added the Grimm one-piece winch plate ($300) and I have about $800 into it and the idea of if or not it is strong enough does not come to mind.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

You are more likely to run out of winch power, and electrical power, and do winch electrical damage before you damage the Jeep.
The bulldog winch plate has "trusses" welded to the bottom of the plate and mounts behind the frame "ears". With the thickness of the plate, the frame ears and the bumper's hooks all bolted in that area with some heavy hardware and clamping force - you are very unlikely to do any damage to the Jeep before something else gives.

 

[Bigb55]

I have used my 9000lb Warn XD since 2003. It's been through hell on a K5, a 1993 k1500 Blazer, now after a rebuild it's now on my Gladiator.

It has never failed to straight pull any of those vehicles (loaded up with gear) up a steep hill. It has pulled full size pickups buried to the frame in mud with no issues.
Using snatch blocks makes it even easier.

The duty cycle, gearing reduction on the drum, line speed and drum size is more important.

A winch can get rated 12,000lbs. But have a horrible duty cycle and drop pull strength drastically as the line wraps on the drum.

A 8-9000 lb winch with better gear reduction and duty cycle will out perform a 12000lb with worse duty cycle and gearing

 

[gladerater23]

This^^^

A stronger winch is under less load doing the same job. Also remember that your bumper/winch plate needs to be rated for that pull by the vendor. My current bumper is guaranteed by warn to handle a 12k pull without distortion. My new bumper coming soon is designed around warn Zeon 12 bumpers from the ground up.

If you attach a block and tackle that can handle a 2,000 lb lift to a 1/4” eye bolt in a 2x6, guess what’s going to happen.

I have a sport with the steel winch bumper (MOPAR) from factory. What are the limitations of that bumper or does that rely on the winch plate? Sorry if that sounds stupid but I'm new to the winch game.

 

[pharmfrank]

My first personal 4 x 4 but I always felt that if you had 4WD you could get stuck in more inaccessible
places, so a winch was a must. Now my intent here was self-rescue more than lending a hand to
others, which I would if the occasion arose. So after swapping on a Warn full-width Crawler bumper
I added a Warn 9.5xp with synthetic rope. To that I added blocks, tree strap, soft shackles, rings, blanket etc and a short book on rigging. Also a couple pair of traction boards (use these once each winter)

, also suggest a Hi-Lift jack. My thought is if I can't extricate myself it's time to call for help and a bigger winch wouldn't make a difference, then again I travel with light loads. Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.

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