Recall: Manual Transmission / Clutch Recall for 2020-2021 Jeep Gladiator (Notice: 21V-028)

[Rubi_Rhod]

This is my exact concern. What about towing? Mountain driving? Bigger tires? I live in FL where vehicles face extreme heat under normal operation...

This is my concern. I tow (albiet a small buggy and small trailer casually), It is mountainous (requiring deep gear drops and high revs), Its hot in the summer and the desert where I roam, and I wanted to go to 35's and then 37's with the regear and parts kits out of Jeeps own parts catalog.

I feel in a "high risk" category. And the last thing it needs is speculative power detuning for a poorly spec'd part.

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[Rubi_Rhod]

Is it just me or can nobody read what the statement actually says? "updated software to reduce engine torque when the clutch assembly's temperature rises too high." The key word is WHEN, no where does it say they are detunning your truck or limiting torque in all situations just WHEN the temperature reaches a certain threshold. The design flaw is not with the hardware but software to allow the temperature to reach a critical stage and cause the issues only a handful of people have experienced. I write very technical government documents in my profession and verbiage is crucial. This is just a limp mode when the clutch assembly is too hot beyond normal use.

In normal operation, how is this heat being generated? There should be no excess heat and friction generated from a properly spec'd and engaged clutch.

Do show the ECU data stream for clutch temperature. There is none. So this detune will be based off what measurement(s)? Auto's have a fluid sensor, but the only time a manual generates those extreme temps is when there is a malfunction, or intention misuse. So there's no sensor for such things. Usually there would be a gigantic plume of smoke from such carnage as it's happening.

But this "rare" occurrence means every jeep needs to be detuned, because spec says it in operation. In my personal reading of this all, Its just too small/light duty.

 

[Vestigo]

Feel free to delete if already posted, but I just got this alert on my GasBuddy app regarding a Overheated Clutch Recall.

For those with manual transmission, BOLO!

More details here...

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2021/RCLRPT-21V028-2204.PDF

This will most certainly apply to me. When in reverse the clutch instantly smells like its burning.

 

[Munkey Boy]

I think I can safely assume that when your clutch is getting hot enough for software to step down torque, that it is the exact time when you need it most. Crippling a crawl will guarantee that the Gladiator used market will forever remain full.

 

[SelfmodJT]

Happy 2021 yall!!!!

 

[tjbrown23]

In normal operation, how is this heat being generated? There should be no excess heat and friction generated from a properly spec'd and engaged clutch.

Do show the ECU data stream for clutch temperature. There is none. So this detune will be based off what measurement(s)? Auto's have a fluid sensor, but the only time a manual generates those extreme temps is when there is a malfunction, or intention misuse. So there's no sensor for such things. Usually there would be a gigantic plume of smoke from such carnage as it's happening.

But this "rare" occurrence means every jeep needs to be detuned, because spec says it in operation. In my personal reading of this all, Its just too small/light duty.

I do not have the technical knowledge of all the sensors or inner workings of the JT. I rely upon the engineers at FCA everytime I drive my lifted brick down the road with my family and everyone who buys a JT does as well.

Quotes from the NHTSA safety recall report. Everything else is speculation and opinions

Description of the defect: "In some circumstances " Show me where it says during normal operation, and to an FCA engineer normal operation is at the max capability so max payload and towing ratings.

Description of Remedy Program: "reduce engine torque capability WHEN clutch assembly temperatures rise to a level" No where does it say detune, or limit during normal operation

How they determine that idk but my guess is a combination of sensors/readings to infer a temp reading in the clutch plate assembly. They wouldn't put that in there unless they had a high degree of certainty that they can determine the temperature.

 

[jdwhichard]

i agree needs stronger clutch and pressure plate instead of reducing engine power . If the clutch is not slipping there is no heat . Wow what gear would you have to be in while towing 4500lbs up I-40 east from Asheville NC across the Blue Ridge Mtn with is 6% for 3 miles , first with reduce power .

 

[Rubi_Rhod]

I do not have the technical knowledge of all the sensors or inner workings of the JT. I rely upon the engineers at FCA everytime I drive my lifted brick down the road with my family and everyone who buys a JT does as well.

Quotes from the NHTSA safety recall report. Everything else is speculation and opinions

Description of the defect: "In some circumstances " Show me where it says during normal operation, and to an FCA engineer normal operation is at the max capability so max payload and towing ratings.

Description of Remedy Program: "reduce engine torque capability WHEN clutch assembly temperatures rise to a level" No where does it say detune, or limit during normal operation

How they determine that idk but my guess is a combination of sensors/readings to infer a temp reading in the clutch plate assembly. They wouldn't put that in there unless they had a high degree of certainty that they can determine the temperature.

You are right, I wasn't trying to personally call ya out or anything, just illustrate there's no sensor for it to base it.

And as for normal driving, as mentioned, under strain, clutches get hot. sand, snow, mud, they take a few jabs and drops to get some spin. What's alarming is that in most instances, its not a catastrophic failure.

It seems recently Ford in Europe had a similar problem with what appears to be a similar fix - https://www.ncconsumer.org/news-art...hat-may-fracture-and-damage-transmission.html

So I worry that in lieu of stronger parts to handle this, we will get a software nanny to deregulate power and rpms making situations even more difficult. Say something like 2K max rpm when clutch disengaged or something. As there's no specifics of what the software will change until it's outlined. But its a black box of what you will get until you get it.

So I definitely don't want to add speculation to add to the flames, but I would like to know more about the investigations and what the scenario's were.

And if its just that a "bad/weak" design, that they want to put rev limits on and such, well I would definitely like the option of changing my clutch to an aftermarket one, and not get that software update, nor loose my warranty for non-stock parts.

 

[tjbrown23]

You are right, I wasn't trying to personally call ya out or anything, just illustrate there's no sensor for it to base it.

And as for normal driving, as mentioned, under strain, clutches get hot. sand, snow, mud, they take a few jabs and drops to get some spin. What's alarming is that in most instances, its not a catastrophic failure.

It seems recently Ford in Europe had a similar problem with what appears to be a similar fix - https://www.ncconsumer.org/news-art...hat-may-fracture-and-damage-transmission.html

So I worry that in lieu of stronger parts to handle this, we will get a software nanny to deregulate power and rpms making situations even more difficult. Say something like 2K max rpm when clutch disengaged or something. As there's no specifics of what the software will change until it's outlined. But its a black box of what you will get until you get it.

So I definitely don't want to add speculation to add to the flames, but I would like to know more about the investigations and what the scenario's were.

And if its just that a "bad/weak" design, that they want to put rev limits on and such, well I would definitely like the option of changing my clutch to an aftermarket one, and not get that software update, nor loose my warranty for non-stock parts.

I completely understand I wasn't talking specifically to you just hit the reply button, in hindsight they should have a stronger transmission not just a carryover from the JL. To be honest we're lucky to have a manual Jeep truck to begin with. I think some in this conversation, not you, seem to believe they are going to handicap our truck and make them unusable. It's not the case, like you said they will probably limit the rpms when the clutch is disengaged, maybe not down to 2k but definitely lower than 5k or have some a+b=c calculation to find the temp and limit rpms and limp to the dealer for a new clutch. I doubt anyone will ever experience this limitation or issue but this is not the end of the world as some have been saying.

 

[tjbrown23]

You are right, I wasn't trying to personally call ya out or anything, just illustrate there's no sensor for it to base it.

And as for normal driving, as mentioned, under strain, clutches get hot. sand, snow, mud, they take a few jabs and drops to get some spin. What's alarming is that in most instances, its not a catastrophic failure.

It seems recently Ford in Europe had a similar problem with what appears to be a similar fix - https://www.ncconsumer.org/news-art...hat-may-fracture-and-damage-transmission.html

So I worry that in lieu of stronger parts to handle this, we will get a software nanny to deregulate power and rpms making situations even more difficult. Say something like 2K max rpm when clutch disengaged or something. As there's no specifics of what the software will change until it's outlined. But its a black box of what you will get until you get it.

So I definitely don't want to add speculation to add to the flames, but I would like to know more about the investigations and what the scenario's were.

And if its just that a "bad/weak" design, that they want to put rev limits on and such, well I would definitely like the option of changing my clutch to an aftermarket one, and not get that software update, nor loose my warranty for non-stock parts.

I would also love to know what the driver was doing when their clutch blew and the build specks of their Jeep. Keep in mind some people have 37s or 35s on 3.73 gears with manuals. We don't know the specifics of the incidents that led to this, alot of contributing factors.

 

[Xxtavixx]

I would also love to know what the driver was doing when their clutch blew and the build specks of their Jeep. Keep in mind some people have 37s or 35s on 3.73 gears with manuals. We don't know the specifics of the incidents that led to this, alot of contributing factors.

pretty sure theyd ignore a safety recall if people were doing things non-factory

 

[Munkey Boy]

pretty sure theyd ignore a safety recall if people were doing things non-factory

"Non-factory"? In a Jeep? What are the odds? ?

 

[tjbrown23]

pretty sure theyd ignore a safety recall if people were doing things non-factory

It would still be a safety concern and may be required by regulators since FCA offers the mopar lift and advertises 35s

 

[Xxtavixx]

It would still be a safety concern and may be required by regulators since FCA offers the mopar lift and advertises 35s

yea, youre right. I forgot about them being sold with the mopar lift and 35’s from the factory.

 

[kd1yt]

Not pleased to learn of this but I'm going to be in a standby and monitor mode, until we start really learning more. I had the first clutch recall done and ended up with slightly better clutch feel in the friction zone, which I am glad for.

If this next development truly ends up being verified that it's only moderate detuning that only happens in response to some specific detection of truly unusually elevated clutch/pressure plate temperatures, I am not going to care a lot. But I don't expect that there is an existing sensor for clutch temperatures and I am not going to be impressed if the system somehow interpolates what conditions it could potentially heat up in. Again, wait and see what this truly turns out to be.

I see no evidence that the transmission is under-rated in relation to OE engine torque; any specs I have looked up show that the transmission has what it needs. I chalk this at least partially up to crappy design characteristics inherent in a dual mass clutch, which has less thermal mass to sink and dissipate heat and more pieces to blow apart when it overheats. A lot of factors are driving manufacturers to use the dual mass clutches in almost any of the small group of remaining MT vehicles, but I'd rather retrofit a good aftermarket single mass clutch, if that ever manages to rise to the top of my available funds/time/relative priority.

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