Why no max tow with the manual transmission?

[ShadowsPapa]

You are correct here. I hear all of this whining about the MT (which I have and I love) and I have to wonder why would anyone shell out this kind of $$ for a small to mid jeep truck and expect it to also do a bunch of heavy towing? That's not where this vehicle shines. It's for off-roading, navigating bad weather, small loads, etc.
When I want to tow, I pull large loads and I do it with my Ford F-350 one-ton, with the old 7.3 liter powerstroke.
Trucks are not like ball caps (one size fits all). Each has it's specific niche.

Found out last winter right after a bad storm - literally before secondary roads were really cleared, with the right tires, these go in the snow!
I don't consider my towing heavy. Even when I had my prior car hauler, it was only 2200 pounds, add 3200 to that and I had 5500 pounds. Now it's only about 4800 pounds. Heavy some some that pull 2500-3,000 pound boats but not near what others consider "towing".

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[Gatorized]

Awesome! So assume shifting to Neutral with Brake on is Trigger to shutdown engine?

Shift to neutral, clutch out, seat belt fastened, door closed tight, not moving (foot can be off the brake) and steering wheel straight. If you are on an incline and let it roll, it will restart, but if rolling slow enough it will remain off. The slightest touch to the clutch pedal will restart. Turning the steering wheel will restart. Electrical draw due to a/c or heater being on will cause a restart.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

All of the information my research has shown say that over-all, industry-wide, the ESS normally will only keep an engine stopped a max of about 90 seconds. That seems to be the common number each company mentions.

 

[Munkey Boy]

All of the information my research has shown say that over-all, industry-wide, the ESS normally will only keep an engine stopped a max of about 90 seconds. That seems to be the common number each company mentions.

90 seconds? Tell that to the guys that set the times for the stop lights. jerks.

Wait a sec, they're the ones to blame for ESS. It's all the stop light's fault! Thanks Woodrow Wilson! jerk.

 

[MrKnowitall]

The trans is somewhat weak,

Also, in the old days when Jeeps had 3 and 4 speed autos that were garbage, the manual trans was desirable because it offered 5 speeds and was more reliable relative to the auto. Now that has totally flopped. The auto now is 8 speeds and is one of the best transmissions in the world. It's almost bulletproof. And it can be shifted manually. So there is no reason to take the manual trans anymore, which is why a tiny fraction of sales have the manual.

the stick shift trans in my old 2013 JKU was the worst manual trans I've ever driven.

Have to disagree on a few points here:
The 6spd manual in the JL and JT is a fine unit. It shifts nice and versions of that same trans family come in the HiLux with a torquey diesel and 3-ton tow rating. The close-ratio version is in the Tacoma, and they're not reporting any durability issues, even with a published 6700lb tow rating. The clutch is a steaming pile of crap.
The NSG in the JK is a little clunky, but it isn't THAT bad. The gears are pretty strong, though the syncros have some plastic bits that do not respond well to rough handling.

 

[WXman]

Have to disagree on a few points here:
The 6spd manual in the JL and JT is a fine unit. It shifts nice and versions of that same trans family come in the HiLux with a torquey diesel and 3-ton tow rating. The close-ratio version is in the Tacoma, and they're not reporting any durability issues, even with a published 6700lb tow rating. The clutch is a steaming pile of crap.
The NSG in the JK is a little clunky, but it isn't THAT bad. The gears are pretty strong, though the syncros have some plastic bits that do not respond well to rough handling.

The D478 is an old trans? Hmm. See, they had told people it was a new design when the JL came out. Nobody could even find a hint of info on it because it was allegedly a new design.

When I searched myself a couple years ago, the ONLY info I found was that the 478 Nm rating translates to 352 ft/lbs. That's pretty weak and it makes sense why it's ONLY paired with the Pentastar engine.

 

[TroutFishingInAmerica]

The manual has a lower tow rating and it has a higher payload rating.

 

[flsupraguy]

The manual has a lower tow rating and it has a higher payload rating.

 

[TroutFishingInAmerica]

Yeah, really.

 

[flsupraguy]

The very first post states: " I understand the max tow has beefier hardware along with wider axles, bigger brakes, and more cooling but why couldn't they offer it in manual form? Is the clutch the limiting factor?" Yes, we are aware the manual has a lower tow rating and higher payload............ The question was to determine if the clutch was the primary limiting factor....

 

[MrKnowitall]

The D478 is an old trans? Hmm. See, they had told people it was a new design when the JL came out. Nobody could even find a hint of info on it because it was allegedly a new design.

When I searched myself a couple years ago, the ONLY info I found was that the 478 Nm rating translates to 352 ft/lbs. That's pretty weak and it makes sense why it's ONLY paired with the Pentastar engine.

The D478 specifically is a new derivative in the trans family. In marketing speak, "new" primarily means "new to Jeep". The Toyota versions are a few years older. The reason it's paired ONLY to the pentastar is because the 2L turbo doesn't have enough idle torque for good off-rad properties and the take rate with the diesel wouldn't be enough to warrant the engineering.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Question on the transmission - and I have not followed this series of transmission because I've had nothing that used it, or its cousins, and have had no real reason - but I'd throw this out there just as an example that leads up to a question - is the current manual transmission in the JT an example of what happened years ago with this other manual transmission?

Borg Warner - T5. There were several versions, but all called T5. There was a Chevy version, there was a Ford version, there was "World Class", and there were a couple of versions used by AMC - in the Spirit and Eagle cars.
Some have said the T5 used by AMC was "Weak" and yet it's been used behind some fairly tough engines for that period. World class - there are real examples of the synchronizers and certain other parts being better (thrust bearings, that sort of thing) and with the versions used by Chevy and AMC - the shifters were very different and yet other internal parts interchange. I got a full rebuild kit for mine and didn't specify the car it came from - just said I had a Borg Warner T5 non-world class. Got the kit, did the rebuild. I abuse the poor thing, it's behind a very torquey 4.0 with a performance cam, shaved head and other mods. The car is geared very high, something like 2.73 or so and I still do 2nd gear squeals with it.
So one transmission - the T5 - was used in several cars, different versions -2 wheel drive, 4 wheel drive, Ford, Chevy, AMC, world class, non-world class, all the T5. Apparently all versions take the same synchronizers and bearings and thrust bearings and washers - other than the world-class version, yet people called the AMC version weak for some reason (I have yet to see why)

Are we looking at a similar situation with the JT manual transmission?

 

[TroutFishingInAmerica]

I like the owl pic.

 

[flsupraguy]

I like the owl pic.

Then you misses an opportune time to respond with a "YARLY" owl

 

[syreeves]

I drove a 6 spd JKR and it was like shifting a UPS van. Such a bummer!

Uh. I own a 6MT and have driven a variety of commercial vehicles with standard transmissions. The JL/JT 6MT shifts very nicely. And the clutch is fine too. What sucks is the huge jump from 2-3rd, and the tall 5th and 6th gears. 6th is so tall I wish they had just spaced everything out much more evenly. As it is now you have to be over 3200 RPM to stay above 2000 RPM shifting to 2nd and 3rd. Apart from the clutch the real issue that I think Jeep won't mention is that the gearing combined with the 3.6 leaves something to be desired. Wish they made the 2.0T (more low end torque), the 4XE or the diesel with a manual, or heck bring back the 4.7v8.... I love my JT but you have to drive it like a sports car to get it to perform in ordinary street traffic.

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