2.0 4xe strong enough for Gladiator!

[ShadowsPapa]

But the average GC weighs more than the average Gladiator so it should be able to hang with towing in the phenom 4xe but it can't.

I've been comparing numbers since I first found out my wife's Grand Cherokee has a higher tow rating and payload rating than my TRUCK. (she suggested if I had trouble I should use her Jeep to tow my cars around - then said no way - it's HERS)

My wife's WK2 (a 2021 model) is about the same weight as a Gladiator.
The tow rating on her WK2 is 6200 pounds, on my Overland JT it's 6,000 pounds. Her payload is slightly higher as well.

Grand Cherokee -

Curb Weight	4,746 lbs.

2021 Jeep Gladiator/Curb weight
4,650 to 5,050 lbs


According to the internet, the 2021 WK2 weighs 4600-5,000 depending on equipment. I have to suspect the higher number of 5,000 pounds is a fully loaded top of the line.
That being the case, her 3.6 equipped version weighs about the same as my Gladiator.
I consider the Overland pretty average in weight as the Sport is lighter, the Rubicon and Mojave heavier.

It is interesting that an "SUV" made for comfort and MPG has higher tow rating than a truck sold as something to tow and haul with.
(SUV in quotes as technically it's sold and registered as a "station wagon")

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[j.o.y.ride]

If the 4xe actually would perform and tow better in the JT over the V6 or even diesel it would have been shoved in there long ago.

They have the drivetrain.
They have the platform.
And the don't. Hmmm.

 

[DAVECS1]

The power is there, and the battery reserve is probably fine though, it may not be.

If they have a tow mode on the 4xe, they could keep it from driving in pure electric for the first 30 miles and my guess is the battery would easily last as long as the tank of gas and give you the power needed the whole time. Currently I have not seen this feature, so that may be an issue

Second, this battery is lighter than most but still an additional 700 lbs along with the electric motor, wiring, and cooling. So lets go with a round number like 1000 lbs of GVWC is consumed. Unfortunately, for reasons unknown the Gladiator chassis is very GVWC limited. Not sure if it is the brakes, axles, suspension, or actial frame that sucks, but something besides the engine, is the limiting factor. If this is in one of the new platforms (wagoneer, wagoneer L) the ram and durango have pretty decent GVWC so they can take the hit on payload and shrug it off.

Third, cooling may be an issue. When we drive our 4xe spiritedly, like late for dance or gymnastics, it sounds like a waterfall in the backseat. They are pushing alot of water through that battery at high discharge rates. When towing maybe the temperature on the battery cannot be controlled with the current thermal management they have designed.

In my mind the power pack is capable, and a down right luxurious alternative. I would never call it green or energy conscious, but man it is powerful and smooth. Its like having a diesel without the pee tank, and all the smells and clatter.

 

[Kmeeks99]

Was not accepted by Jeep. No biggie, adapt and overcome.

How long after ordering did you discover it wouldn’t be accepted?

 

[Minty JL]

How long after ordering did you discover it wouldn’t be accepted?

I placed the at the dealer around lunch on Friday (9/24). I had been called them daily for either the VIN or VON. Yesterday around lunch they called to ask when I could collect my deposit.

 

[Orange01z28]

If we get that before a V8 I’ll be pissed

 

[Minty JL]

If the 4xe actually would perform and tow better in the JT over the V6 or even diesel it would have been shoved in there long ago.

They have the drivetrain.
They have the platform.
And the don't. Hmmm.

I'm going to laugh once they throw that 4xe option in the JT.

It will fit and they will do it to be CAFE law compliant........which is only now 3 model years away. So stop with the if they could they would have, it's all about timing. And at this point I don't know a single person that has bought a hybrid (of some sort) platform and is worried about towing. Your comparing apples and oranges.

The automotive world is like combat, you don't blow your wad all at once. Gotta keep them interested and coming back for more.

With 20 years in the Army and half of that time overseas.......I know a wee bit about combat....but I'm sure you'll try and argue that because you've played a video game or watch CNN for 20 years.

 

[j.o.y.ride]

I'm going to laugh once they throw that 4xe option in the JT.

It will fit and they will do it to be CAFE law compliant........which is only now 3 model years away. So stop with the if they could they would have, it's all about timing. And at this point I don't know a single person that has bought a hybrid (of some sort) platform and is worried about towing. Your comparing apples and oranges.

The automotive world is like combat, you don't blow your wad all at once. Gotta keep them interested and coming back for more.

With 20 years in the Army and half of that time overseas.......I know a wee bit about combat....but I'm sure you'll try and argue that because you've played a video game or watch CNN for 20 years.

What are you even going on and on about this time?

It probably will show up (didn't say it wouldn't). And yes if it does it will be because of mileage across the platform, hopefully to offset and make the 392 possible.

But if it doesn't show up it will likely be because it won't beat the V6 or diesel in towing more than just around town.

 

[Papa Jawa]

Short and sweet. The new Wagoneer platform has the same 4xe as the Wrangler.

2022 Jeep Wagoneer GVRW around 7.5k. The Gladiator is about 5.8k.

Wagoneer towing with the 4xe is reported to be around 6-7k. Same as Gladiators.

That’s a bigger beast than our JTs. The 2.0 4xe is more than enough.

correction: grand Cherokee. 6.5k GVWR. I still stand by my opinion.

OK, my bad on the Wagoneer and Grand Cherokee...

I think the 4xe drivetrain produces more than enough power and torque. If it was the 2.0 by itself I would scratch my head, but I think the immediacy of the torque from the electric motor will put this overall into a very functional JT.

 

[Papa Jawa]

Do you have a source for this? The Grand Cherokee has the 4xe but did they also announce it for Wagoneer?

Nope, no source, just screwed it up.

 

[dcmdon]

If the 4xe actually would perform and tow better in the JT over the V6 or even diesel it would have been shoved in there long ago.

They have the drivetrain.
They have the platform.
And the don't. Hmmm.

Tow better . . what does that mean? To different people that means different things.

I tow around town mostly. For me a 4xE would absolutely tow better. More torque at lower RPM. More power.

Around town the diesel tows better than the gas engine. More torque, similar power.

But to a guy who pulls a heavy trailer up a long hill in the summer, there are other problems. Specifically heat.

In that situation, the gas engine "tows better" because you can run the thing at 5000 rpm and it makes lots of HP and has no heat issues.

The diesel engine can overheat and go into limp mode or whatever you all call it.

God only knows what will happen with the 4xe. But I can speculate reasonably.

1) the hybrid battery will quickly run down on an extended uphill.
2) now you are left with a 2 liter turbo engine providing most of the power.
3) these engines are even less thrermodynamically efficient than the regular gas or diesel.
4) that means heat. more heat.
5) that means a lower tow rating because the tow rating standard includes a long uphill in high temps.

But for me. Tooling around in-town, the 4xe will launch great off the line because of the electric torque and accelerate strongly. With occasional stops the battery will get a chance to regenerate and it will be able to assist indefinitely.

I hope this helps.

 

[j.o.y.ride]

Tow better . . what does that mean? To different people that means different things.

....

God only knows what will happen with the 4xe. But I can speculate reasonably.

1) the hybrid battery will quickly run down on an extended uphill.
2) now you are left with a 2 liter turbo engine providing most of the power.
3) these engines are even less thermodynamically efficient than the regular gas or diesel.
4) that means heat. more heat.
5) that means a lower tow rating because the tow rating standard includes a long uphill in high temps.

This is what I mean by tow better, what you say is extremely likely the scenario IRL.

I don't know that Jeep or any truck mfg will ever release a truck with a tow rating that has a mile limiter attached. I.e. 8,000lbs for 10 miles, 5,000lbs thereafter. But maybe, they will. Or maybe they can't because of the ratings standards.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Jeep wouldn't have put that drivetrain in the JT already if he did this or that. Not with CAR, CAFE, federal safety regulations and more.
Any change, no matter how small, may mean back to the testing facility.
The JT had problems because Jeep wouldn't let the engineers make certain changes in the engine bay because the truck had already passed certain tests.
They had enough trouble getting the Gladiator to market - add yet another drivetrain, change the weight and weight distribution, center of gravity and other things then they go back to those SAE towing and payload test all over again.
They can't make any change to the structure including cross member, frame, engine mounts and engine mount locations, transmission mount among other things without passing all of those tests again.
Edelbrock had to delay products to market because of CAR regs - so if Jeep wants to sell in CA, any change to these vehicles must pass Kalifornia scrutiny.
These days none of that will happen very quickly.
They have bigger fish to fry and other parts of their fleet are bigger fish.

 

[dcmdon]

I agree completely with your logic. But there are some things in the 4xes favor.

1) Same under hood packaging as the 2.0 L
2) CAFE pressures. This will help Jeep with the Feds.

Because of this , I think the 4xe is the most likely new engine. Though how likely that is is probably pretty slim.

 

[j.o.y.ride]

I agree completely with your logic. But there are some things in the 4xes favor.

1) Same under hood packaging as the 2.0 L
2) CAFE pressures. This will help Jeep with the Feds.

Because of this , I think the 4xe is the most likely new engine. Though how likely that is is probably pretty slim.

It probably doesn't make any financial sense to go through all the testing and regulatory b.s. to add an engine that doesn't attract *new* buyers. Not buyers who were going to buy a Gladiator anyways... people who wouldn't consider the Gladiator unless it had the particular engine they are thinking of putting into it. 4xe would bring some new in, but enough to offset the costs and make it worthwhile if they are already doing fine for CAFE etc?

Converting people who would not have bought the Gladiator but for <xyz> engine is all that matters for incremental gains to offset the costs.

Unless Jeep REALLY wants to run a 392 Gladiator out there and needs the 4xe to offset it, I don't see either engine happening.

But with Ford having killed off the Bronco truck and no V8 in the Ranger or others there isn't any competitive pressures like there is with the Wrangler. Jeep needed a 392 Wrangler and for that it also needed a 4xe Wrangler. Those competitive pressures don't exist on the Gladiator.

The Wrangler currently sells 2.3x more volume than the Gladiator, and with the tow capacity already limited to 3,500lbs they don't need to worry about bad press for not towing well.

Maybe they will still do it, maybe they think they will get enough new buyers.

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