6.4L V8 Hemi (392) possibly "real world" testing for future Gladiator model

[DiscoSlug]

The hummer stats are designed to be eyepopping to a consumer but really its not a shocker to anyone familiar with the potential of electric locomotion. Just look at trains.

i wonder if anyone touting electrification as the future has really examined the social and infrastructural costs. For example what if 50% of california’s 40 million people all plugged their cars in to charge at night after depleting them from the stop and go commute, while millions more fleet vehicles those californians would depend on for sustinance and supplies also charged and placed power grid demands. What do we think would happen to the cost per kw/hr? What does that do to cost of goods? Cost of electricity? Consumer choice and freedoms?

Some states like California cant even support their own power demands today. So imagine you had to go to hospital or to a job interview on a rolling blackout day. Are you really comfortable with the control state, municipal, and corporate utilities would have on basic needs? What about all the millions of people driving old cars due to choice or maybe affordability. Do you disenfranchise them from transportation?

Electrification is a good thing. But, In the technology rush I’m wondering what the social and economic impacts of electrification are. Thats why it makes me laugh when these fads with big power come out to target big wallet first movers. Honestly speaking what would be more impressive is demonstrating how a 200hp electric platform could go 1000 miles or more without a charge and also have a way to generate power on its own reliably from existing fuel. sources. Or, show how that same 1000hp source could reduce fleet maintenance costs, last the million or so miles a detroit diesel will last, and carry the same 1000 mile range.

The hummer hardly ushers in the electrification revolution. I’ll take my 6.4L gladiator in silver.

You bring up excellent points, but we can't make gasoline in the garage. We can purchase used solar panels with 80% of original 100 watt production on eBay for $40.

The future is going to also rely on local production and storage. And as those prices plummet, solar is starting to look good even in my state (ky), where coal and natural gas are cheapest and its not sunny that often.

Despite these things too, what's stopping the some similar disaster from wiping out the fossil fuel supply?

Diesel and gas get wiped out quick during natural disasters, none is coming in due to disasters we know are coming, compounded with people fleeing and/or hoarding, and then you gotta get the stuff back into an area that might not have infrastructure anymore.

Places that are seeing more frequent natural disasters are evening moving MORE heavily into solar (ex. Puerto Rico)

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[Silvertruck]

You bring up excellent points, but we can't make gasoline in the garage. We can purchase used solar panels with 80% of original 100 watt production on eBay for $40.

The future is going to also rely on local production and storage. And as those prices plummet, solar is starting to look good even in my state (ky), where coal and natural gas are cheapest and its not sunny that often.

Despite these things too, what's stopping the some similar disaster from wiping out the fossil fuel supply?

Diesel and gas get wiped out quick during natural disasters, none is coming in due to disasters we know are coming, compounded with people fleeing and/or hoarding, and then you gotta get the stuff back into an area that might not have infrastructure anymore.

Places that are seeing more frequent natural disasters are evening moving MORE heavily into solar (ex. Puerto Rico)

solar and wind make a lot of sense to me.. For example, think of the hundreds of thousands of acres underutilized as road medians in amercia. What if we use these blank spaces - or better yet the clear cut under tension lines - to harness wind and solar sources?

Biofuel - in this case soy, corn or even gas from trash decomposition could make sense. Also, LP or natural gas conversion seems like a cleaner alternative too as a segway to clean energy.

but really if the battery industry is toxic and also not able to grow stored power fast enough, the demand on the grid will be scary

 

[JET222]

I have a RAV4 Hybrid as well as a Mojave. The torque off the line as well as getting 42 mpg on long trips is nice. The thing is quick, and I would love that in a Gladiator, although I do love the sound of a V8. I think the biggest thing to think about, is if you were going to keep it long term. It will be a lot easier to wrench on a Hemi than replacing electric motors, batteries, and working on a 2.0L turbo (unless it is not a turbo). If you want to keep it forever, get the Hemi. If you are only planning on 5-8 years, get the hybrid.

 

[Dqban]

california also has a law in place requiring new construction beyond a certain date to produce its own electricity (to some extent.).....Solar panels will be standard feature in the near future. Elon Musk's sleeper product is his solar roof tiles. They actually look good, he will have a hard time keeping up with demand for those. Ive seen solar windows too.
How do we store the energy, I dont know, but thats what innovation is all about. It is driven by the need to solve a problem.
Coal and fossil fuels in general are great and powered us through the last century, but now they pose a problem, so we must innovate....I dont recall any diesel powered space ships on star trek.

 

[Factoid]

I have about 5,000 miles on my 6.4L hemi powered JTR, including several long trips.

in my opinion, this chassis was made for this Powertrain (yep, includes an 8spd ZF tranny). Fast, smooth and will go anywhere. Jeep would be foolish not to go ahead with this option, but their average fleet fuel mileage will drop!

The three biggest problems with electric are speed of charge, electrical storage and electric generation inefficiencies. These will be solved and when they are watch out, this will be the Powertrain to have!

 

[Orange01z28]

I want a Hellcat-powered Gladiator

If FCA can do this with the Rebel, imagine what it could do with a Gladiator

https://www.fourwheeler.com/news/features/ram-trx-first-drive/

 

[Matt84]

Coal and fossil fuels in general are great and powered us through the last century, but now they pose a problem, so we must innovate....I dont recall any diesel powered space ships on star trek.

You’re right, everything was nuclear powered on Star Trek. Tell your legislators to stop putting undue regulation on nuclear energy and stop subsidizing things that cannot provide the power we need on the scale we need (solar/wind)

 

[EstoJTR]

I think the V8 sounds good on paper, but we'll have to see actual implementation. As already mentioned, gas mileage will become an issue, the 3.6L already doesn't have great range. Then there's the cost, which will probably keep most of the "I'd get it" crowd at bay. In reality the 3.6L or Diesel is fine for 99.9% of our uses.

The Gladiator is already not "affordable" by most people's logic, now add $10-$15k(guesstimate) on top? We all like to dream, but the higher you climb in price the more "why this instead of a more usable [pick a vehicle] instead?" discussions you start to have. Obviously this is an enthusiasts forum so the sampling is skewed, but just think about how many F150 (enter top trim) vs. Raptors you see on the road, and those things have been out for ages now.

 

[MikeInMo]

Electrification likely wont have as much of a drop in the grid as people expect. Most charging take place during off-peak hours and solar is expanding. Expect new construction to have to have to produce its own electricity in the very near future (california already did this) There are also several forms of electrification...You could have the ICE simply be a generator to run the electric motors, never needs to use the grid at all.... this set up is still more gas efficient and gives you the benefits of a powerful electric motor. Kinda like a train.

Off peak charging and solar are mutually exclusive without widespread grid storage which is not happening yet. At home storage is an option but is very expensive compared to utility prices, even in CA, making it a discretionary choice for those who can afford it and not an affordable utility scale option. Rapid deployment of electric vehicles will cause and exacerbate electric grid problems. I think hybrid technology like you talk about is going to be the preferred platform for a long time for anyone that drives any sort of distance in non-urban areas compared to straight electric IF enough batteries and motors can be produced.

Also, solar really isn't viable in most of the country. I live close enough to the "wind belt" that my utility benefits from access to it, but that's not the case for most of the country. In many cases, less densely populated states actually have equal or higher penetration of renewable power without mandates or much lower mandates than more densely populated areas with aggressive renewable mandates because economics is the driver.

Where I am in MO, a 15% renewable goal for investor owned utilities (not municipal) by 2021 goal was set in 2007. Current composite production is 43% renewable. CA by comparison is currently 25% renewable with a 60% goal by 2030; SD is currently 94% renewable with a 10% goal by 2015; and FL is currently 40% renewable with no goal or mandate.

https://www.energy.gov/maps/renewable-energy-production-state
https://www.ncsl.org/research/energy/renewable-portfolio-standards.aspx

solar and wind make a lot of sense to me.. For example, think of the hundreds of thousands of acres underutilized as road medians in amercia. What if we use these blank spaces - or better yet the clear cut under tension lines - to harness wind and solar sources?

Biofuel - in this case soy, corn or even gas from trash decomposition could make sense. Also, LP or natural gas conversion seems like a cleaner alternative too as a segway to clean energy.

but really if the battery industry is toxic and also not able to grow stored power fast enough, the demand on the grid will be scary

Corn based biofuel (ethanol) is less efficient than petroleum when looked at from production through use. My guess is algae based biofuel is probably the most likely path forward to get the scale needed if biofuel is going to be meaningful - no offense to Willie Nelson's biodiesel. Trash is an interesting idea. While the pure volume is likely there, I don't think it has the energy density or consistency to be that big of a player for the foreseeable future. I am familiar with a landfill gas extraction site that generates electricity, but it's not very reliable and produces less than 10 MW from a landfill that serves over 100,000 people at a much higher unit cost than other sources. For context, 500-1000 MW is what the community needs.

You hit the nail on the head with the battery industry, and the same applies to the solar panel industry. It is a dirty extraction industry that just moves the environmental, social, and economic impacts out of sight so people who want to be green feel better about their choices.

I like the idea of high horsepower and torque electric or hybrids vehicles, and if issues of range/recharging get worked out at a reasonable cost, I'm there. The performance is hard to beat. However, thinking it is truly green is not reality for now. Widespread electronic waste recycling (way more than we have now) is the first step, but I don't know what the next steps are to clean up the raw material production side. In the current state, cleaning up material sourcing will drastically alter the economic balance of electric/hybrid vs gas/diesel away from electric/hybrid.

In the meantime I want a V8 Jeep.

 

[Silvertruck]

Also I think we may be drastically overstating the cost of a 6.4L jeep. It already has the right trans. Packaging has been proven. You’d be deleting the cost of a pretty darn sophisticated 3.6.

look at the scatpack challenger for example. Or the 2500 powerwagon.

 

[GreenZJ]

This isn’t new info. A Jeep factory employee came out and said this a few months ago when the concept hemi Wrangler was released

 

[Dqban]

I dont think batteries are a panacea for the transition to electric...just a possible solution. ...and likely more enviromentally friendly than the continued burning of fossil fuels. Biofuels are a great idea but i kinda hope we can get away from the complexities of ICE engines in general. I do expect all of these emerging electrification tech. To continue improving, and at a faster rate as investments and gov. mandates will drive it. Hybrids will play a big part in the short term...but i bet even they will be a dying breed 10 years from now. Someone is going to figure out the 5 min charge 500 mile equation....or even on board hydrolisis producing hydrogen on the fly...just need water. (That would still be an ice engine though)

 

[Silvertruck]

In the 50’s innovation patents were bought up and shelved. Why else would we be 120 years into ICE.

 

[Oilburner]

I have about 5,000 miles on my 6.4L hemi powered JTR, including several long trips

Do you have a build thread?
What mileage are you getting?
Thx!

Edit: Found one: https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/forum/threads/my-recent-1-000-mile-trip.27315/

 

[LaterGator]

If you want to replace fossil fuels with solar and wind, be prepared to give up your forests and fields.

A 1000 MW nuclear facility takes up about 1.3 square miles.

The equivalent gas fired power plant needs about 30 acres for the plant and about 1 acre for each gas well.

The equivalent wind power facility needs around 300 square miles of land.

The equivalent solar facility needs about 60 square miles of land.

ref. land needs for solar plants
ref. footprints per energy source

To replace, the 60% of power generated by natural gas and coal would require about 180,000 square miles of land.

I don't support wind or solar power because they literally destroy the land that I enjoy so much.

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