Bison vs Raptor vs TRD vs Mojave

[montechie]

Boring comparison doing apples vs apples. I'm taking delivery soon on a "short" 148" wheelbase F-350 soon, it'll be fun comparing it on Montana trails vs my JTR which I'm definitely doing. Will be measured in pinstriping and "Nopes" on obstacles, hopefully no "Oh shits".

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[Deleted member 57233]

The same line of thinking followed by the Bronco crowd. Look at the IFS on an ultra 4 car or score truck and then look at a Bronco, tacoma, etc. 7" of wheel travel vs 20". Cast aluminum A arms that are a foot long vs 2' long tube steel with centered mounts not mounts outside the frame. The only reason the raptor has decent travel is it's as wide as a Freightliner. The standard IFS on these rigs has more in common with a Honda civic than an ultra 4 car. What are the other half of those competitors running again? But solid axles don't work at speeds?

IFS does better off-road at everything except low speed crawling and simplicity/durability. Nothing you said changes that.

 

[AustyPosty]

I've found these types of automotive based youtube channels are pretty crappy. They are your FastLaneTruck type channels or whatever they are calling themselves these days. You can tell its gonna be a bad video if the thumbnail is a guy standing in front of a vehicle with his arms stretched out and his mouth agape. They are automotive "journalists" who somehow are given access to vehicles by manufacturers and really don't have any useful information other than what the manufacturers told them to say about their vehicle. They love touch screens, "refinement" (whatever the F that means, they love using this phrase alot), power adjustable seats and that is about the extent of their knowledge or passion for vehicles.

Theres also this growing trend of "automotive" youtube channels where the premise is a dude walking through a dealership lot and exclaiming how (insert brand here) is totally going to shit and will never sell another car again. It is the epitome of low effort "journalism". I'm sure these dealerships let out a big sigh every time they see these dudes pull up to the lot.

 

[ChrisNLA]

I feel like the regular ZR2 (not the AEV Bison upfitted one) would have been a better comparison, along with the Rubicon.

That being said, I'd strongly consider a ZR2 for my next truck - being a long time Chevy guy already. It would suit my wheeling fine these days. I do love the Mojave, though.

 

[DanW]

I'm not aware that Jeep has ever put 35s on a Gladiator. Just the Wrangler.

I think he intends it to be compared to the best Gladiator, which happens to be on 33's. The X is just the optioned out version.

I think it would stack up well, even on 33's.

 

[Zachanadandy]

IFS does better off-road at everything except low speed crawling and simplicity/durability. Nothing you said changes that.

According to who? The 4x4 f150 was the worst ride I've ever been in heading out the 18 miles of washboard dirt road to our property. Even at half the speed I run it at in the mojave my eyes felt blurry by the time I got out there and my head hurt from all the shaking. Granted the mojave shocks are 10x better than the standard f150, but with more wheelbase, more weight, and IFS you'd have me believe it would be so much better. And it would shake so bad it would lose traction on the uphill sections. The swb Bronco is even worse. My buddy had the same mindset you clearly do (not based on actual experience) until he tried to keep up with me in the dirt. No you're Honda civic front suspension isn't remotely good off road period. Now the bison and ranger raptor have much better shocks than a standard Colorado, ranger, Bronco, or f150 so that would help, but the IFS itself is overrated especially in the short arm, short travel, stock setup of most trucks and suvs. And the blanket statement is just ridiculous. Again there are ultra 4 solid axle rigs, are you really trying to argue any stock IFS is "better at everything" off road? Even the slightest bit of logic destroys that argument.

 

[JeepOfTheseus]

Why is Cars.com reviewing trucks? /s

 

[wachuko]

We're going to see how the Bison does in Moab in 3 weeks, stacked up against my JL Rubicon and Gladiator Rubicon. All 3 vehicles are on 35's. Should be fun. My brother loves his Bison, but also owned a Gladiator Rubi with 2" lift and 35's. First thing he said was that the visibility is far superior in the Gladiator. But he has some great cameras in the Bison to compensate for it.

We're going to run them side by side on every trail for 6 days. Can't wait.

The main thing we can compare right now is fuel economy. With no load and not towing, the Gladiator has him beat by over 3mpg in similar driving. Point to the JT.

On paper, the Bison has more power. But we've run them side by side and it's very close, with the Bison barely inching ahead. I'm sure at altitude the advantage will increase, but we were both shocked that the Bison didn't blow the Gladiator's doors off. I think the gearing on the Bison is a handicap. But if it had the right gearing, the gas mileage difference would be even greater.

Lots of folks dog on the ol 3.6. But in the real world, it is competitive.

Having owned both, he did say that with his 5k lb. Boat on the back, his Bison has achieved about 1 mpg better than his Gladiator did and the power of that big turbo 4 gets it moving more briskly.

I'll report back as we go. I think that Bison will do very well off-road. Can't wait to see it and drive it off road! It certainly is beautiful and has an amazing sound system! Great seats, too!

As a previous model Bison diesel owner that went to a Gladiator and kept thinking about the new gas Bison, thank you for that post. Besides the taller bed, then I don’t feel too bad.

The new ZR2 Bison was not available when I got my Gladiator or it would have been a tough decision for me.

Don’t get me wrong, very happy with my Gladiator, but I still have the hots for the new ZR2 Bison. It is a good looking truck, imho at least.

 

[Aleph]

According to who? The 4x4 f150 was the worst ride I've ever been in heading out the 18 miles of washboard dirt road to our property.

if it wasn’t a raptor, it was probably on leaf springs in the rear, no?

Either way, although the video was absolute trash, I do believe the stock Ranger Raptor is superior to the stock Mojave in high speed sand scenarios in terms of body control. It seems like Ford sincerely put a lot of effort into their traction/suspension/throttle/transmission programming to maximize the truck dynamically and minimize any driver skill gap.

But that’s the thing - it’s programming for expensive and proprietary live valve shocks that probably won’t have many (or any) options to upgrade aftermarket. You’re stuck in stock. The complication of electronics is a nightmare that fortunately Stellantis was (and hopefully still is) too smart/cheap enough to not attempt on Jeep’s flagship JL/JT. But then again, the platform is like 7 years old at this point and a lot has changed in the market since 2018.

Ya know, for all the management fuckups on Stellantis’ part, we gotta give the Jeep JL/JT development teams credit for keeping it simple and knowing the limits of the company’s ability in dealing with problems after the JL/JT went to market. Pentastar V6, solid axle, minimal dependence on complicated electromechanical systems, and keeping the platform aftermarket-friendly. A good comparison for this point would be the Nissan Frontier, which is still naturally aspirated and electromechanically “dumb” like the JT.

lets hope Jeep sticks to their formula for the next Gladiator

 

[Zachanadandy]

if it wasn’t a raptor, it was probably on leaf springs in the rear, no?

Either way, although the video was absolute trash, I do believe the stock Ranger Raptor is superior to the stock Mojave in high speed sand scenarios in terms of body control. It seems like Ford sincerely put a lot of effort into their traction/suspension/throttle/transmission programming to maximize the truck dynamically and minimize any driver skill gap.

But that’s the thing - it’s programming for expensive and proprietary live valve shocks that probably won’t have many (or any) options to upgrade aftermarket. You’re stuck in stock. The complication of electronics is a nightmare that fortunately Stellantis was (and hopefully still is) too smart/cheap enough to not attempt on Jeep’s flagship JL/JT.

Ya know, for all the management fuckups on Stellantis’ part, we gotta give the Jeep JL/JT development teams credit for keeping it simple and knowing the limits of the company’s ability in dealing with problems after the JL/JT went to market. Pentastar V6, solid axle, minimal dependence on complicated electromechanical systems, and keeping the platform aftermarket-friendly. A good comparison for this point would be the Nissan Frontier, which is still naturally aspirated and electromechanically “dumb” like the JT.

lets hope Jeep sticks to their formula for the next Gladiator

I've been very clear to point out that the raptor should be better than the mojave at speed, because of its shocks and wider A arms with much better travel but I have no experience with a ranger raptor. I do know from driving and riding in both that the Bronco raptor is on par with the mojave in rough terrain because the swb compared to the gladiator makes it less stable. From all the trucks I've personally driven in the desert my list looks like TRX (no denying the smile factor of the 700hp), f150 raptor, Mojave/BroncoRaptor tie, ram rebel, JLUR (aftermarket fox 2.0s), standard 4 door Bronco badlands, f150, 2dr Bronco, JL. Wheelbase matters more than people realize. The 2dr Bronco and JL are both sketchy at speed so there goes the universal IFS is better idea. Shocks matter almost as much so there goes the IFS is always better argument again. Now if you're talking wide track, long travel IFS paired with good shocks that's a different argument. But proclaiming IFS is better everywhere off road aside from crawling and durability just shows a lack of experience in my opinion. Even if you put the raptor suspension on a 2dr (it might end up as wide as it is long at that point) Bronco it still wouldn't be great at real speed on rough terrain. Conversely none of these trucks will be as good in big rocks as a JLUR even if they are lifted the same amount and running the same tires. Breakover and especially departure angles just aren't nearly as good. That's why our JLUR is set up for rocks with full skids and 39s and the mojave is set up for the desert. If I had to have a single rig I'd probably go JTR and put much better shocks and 40s on it to try and make it do everything but fortunately that's not the case.

 

[DirkG]

I didn't watch the video, but while as a car guy I appreciate the comparisons, I've also never made a purchase decision based on a third-party review.

The reason I'm on my second Gladiator is because it's a Jeep, a truck, and a convertible. It's a fun vehicle like no other on the market. I wouldn't consider those other trucks to be honest.

 

[wachuko]

I just watched the video. Comments are hilarious…. Video was at least entertaining.

As much as I like the ZR2 Bison… not trading my Mojave X for it. All I want to do next in mine are 35” tires. That is it. Happy the way it is right now. Hard to believe, but I am done with mods.

 

[BourbonRunner]

You guys just wait until Jeep releases the next Gladiator Mojave Xtreme Reconnoiter Secret Squirrel Hellcataphant with a supercharged 1500 HP V8 under the hood. It'll be IFS with a front, center and rear locker and long travel suspension. It'll destroy the competition.

I saw it on a Youtube video so you know it's true.

 

[Tommyd]

The scorecard is the dumbest thing I've ever seen and clearly designed to handicap the Jeep. Off road tech doesn't include the cameras but the visibility does? Because the Jeep destroys them all in actual visibility and relies on offroad capabilities and the driver instead of knobs and drive modes. The fact that the Jeep doesn't easily win the rock crawling portion proves both rigged scoring and a course that is too easy. Nobody in the real world would rank any ifs above the solid axle Jeep rock crawling. And yet the Colorado wins and the ranger ties? Bring all 4 to the rubicon and tell me your scorecard represents reality.

I agree 100%

 

[Stan H]

I agree 100%

Can some direct me to the snack bar ?
Y'all fixin' to get angry up in here.

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