Coil spring recommendations

[Wolf Island Diver]

That review Brad did with that video was terrible and probably his worst one - being honest. All of those vehicles were totally stock with no weight in them. Not many people getting those lifts are fully stock and unloaded. So it is a terrible way to ‘review’ a lift when it is being used in a capacity and form totally different than what it was designed for. People who buy the AEV lift typically do so to accommodate a heavier constant load. Same with clayton or synergy. That video is a really poor example of what to expect with those lift options. For reference when I had about 200 pounds under GVW and the AEV lift with steer smarts (with clevite bushings) track bars, it rode like a cadillac. Which is wildly different than what Brad experienced because that rig he drove was totally stock.

From a pure quantitative data standpoint, I think it was a fine video. It gave a good idea of the unladen measurements. Like you, I didn’t really agree with the conclusions or the subjective aspects. It did demonstrate my point though that the actual lift height was detached from the whatever each manufacturer called it.

In my experience driving with the AEV suspension, the articulation gets noticeably better under load. They just have a ton of preload for gear which makes them stiff. I’m also not particularly excited about short arm suspension systems over drop brackets. They basically correct geometry like brackets do. They don’t transform the truck into a rock buggy. I’ve never really wished this thing had massive amounts more articulation. I’m not trying to rock crawl $100k worth of truck and risk destroying it when I could buy a used buggy or build one for $20k. For what most of us are doing, pretty much any name brand mid level lift is fine.

Brad could have made a video, and just said. “Here’s a bunch of lifts. They’re all pretty good” But that doesn’t sell on social media ?

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[ShadowsPapa]

Believe it or not they don’t. I think AEV was shooting for a price point, so perhaps motivated reasoning. Mine drove fine with the stock bar, but I noticed it pulled a little. With 37s it’s a little hard to tell ?. I just had a Synergy bar installed. Overall the truck drives 100% better than stock. I would have sold this thing if I couldn’t have corrected the stock suspension tuning. I’ve never had a truck or Jeep that drove as poorly as this JTRD in stock form; constantly bottoming out, wandering, impossible to keep in a lane. It was borderline unsafe and nerve racking to drive on the interstate around jersey walls.

Both of my JTs handle and steer fine - the 2020 took a second steering gear to correct the loose steering but it got there.
No issues, road trips to CO and back (and up and around Pike's Peak and other mountain areas, narrow roads, heavy traffic) and even my wife, coming from Grand Cherokees, doesn't mind driving it. I think her JLU Rubicon is mushy a bit - steering isn't tight and you correct quite a bit but then it's a shorter vehicle on different tires, etc. so can't truly compare.
The very best truck was the 2011 Silverado. That thing was luxury driving it, but then it sat totally differently, was wider and longer and weight down low so I'd expect it to drive like a dream. I'd liken my JTs more to what my F250 4x4 was.
I'll take my JT through narrow construction zones and not even blink or hesitate.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

From a pure quantitative data standpoint, I think it was a fine video. It gave a good idea of the unladen measurements. Like you, I didn’t really agree with the conclusions or the subjective aspects. It did demonstrate my point though that the actual lift height was detached from the whatever each manufacturer called it.

In my experience driving with the AEV suspension, the articulation gets noticeably better under load. They just have a ton of preload for gear which makes them stiff. I’m also not particularly excited about short arm suspension systems over drop brackets. They basically correct geometry like brackets do. They don’t transform the truck into a rock buggy. I’ve never really wished this thing had massive amounts more articulation. I’m not trying to rock crawl $100k worth of truck and risk destroying it when I could buy a used buggy or build one for $20k. For what most of us are doing, pretty much any name brand mid level lift is fine.

Brad could have made a video, and just said. “Here’s a bunch of lifts. They’re all pretty good” But that doesn’t sell on social media ?

But the point made about different lifts, different results, holds no matter what. The only fair way to compare is on stock vehicles. It points out the bit -> 2.5 isn't 2.5 isn't 2.5
A 2" lift may be 2", maybe not, maybe more - maybe less.
A 3" lift may be a 3" lift, or something bigger or smaller.
For that stock is the only fair comparison.
But looking around here - look at the JTs that have lifts and bigger tires - and that's about it.
Not every lift is for purpose other than "it looks better". I bet you could search for that term here and find it all over - "it looks better" as the reason.
Frankly, the 1.5" I ended up with....... I admit it - it looks better.
(now if someone searches for that term, they'll find it and I'll be correct LOL)

(waiting for someone to say "but you added 180 pounds of power steps, 70 pounds of winch, 20 pounds of receiver, steel bumper...........")

 

[chorky]

But the point made about different lifts, different results, holds no matter what. The only fair way to compare is on stock vehicles. It points out the bit -> 2.5 isn't 2.5 isn't 2.5
A 2" lift may be 2", maybe not, maybe more - maybe less.
A 3" lift may be a 3" lift, or something bigger or smaller.
For that stock is the only fair comparison.
But looking around here - look at the JTs that have lifts and bigger tires - and that's about it.
Not every lift is for purpose other than "it looks better". I bet you could search for that term here and find it all over - "it looks better" as the reason.
Frankly, the 1.5" I ended up with....... I admit it - it looks better.
(now if someone searches for that term, they'll find it and I'll be correct LOL)

(waiting for someone to say "but you added 180 pounds of power steps, 70 pounds of winch, 20 pounds of receiver, steel bumper...........")

this was my biggest irritant. That nobody was realistic with their lift amount under any circumstance. Not even MOPAR. I didnt want a pavement princess so looks mean nothing without proper form and function. And who cares if 37’s “look better“ than 35’s. Thats 2” of difference and extremely subjective - gotta be the most worthless discussion point of all time. It took me having 3 or 4 convo’s with AEV to finally get to the bottom of what their design was intended for. And I was confident that was going to be my direction from the start. There are certainly many variables but one would think that engineers designing these systems would be more upfront with their specifications. But AEV did give me some inside info finally. I like how clayton offers their spring rates right off the bat but they dont really offer any info on what their intent is. Spring rates are cool but without understanding intent it means very little.

 

[Wheelin98TJ]

this was my biggest irritant. That nobody was realistic with their lift amount under any circumstance. Not even MOPAR. I didnt want a pavement princess so looks mean nothing without proper form and function. And who cares if 37’s “look better“ than 35’s. Thats 2” of difference and extremely subjective - gotta be the most worthless discussion point of all time. It took me having 3 or 4 convo’s with AEV to finally get to the bottom of what their design was intended for. And I was confident that was going to be my direction from the start. There are certainly many variables but one would think that engineers designing these systems would be more upfront with their specifications. But AEV did give me some inside info finally. I like how clayton offers their spring rates right off the bat but they dont really offer any info on what their intent is. Spring rates are cool but without understanding intent it means very little.

Sometimes they don't want to be upfront with specs and details because it makes it easier for competitors to copy.

 

[rharr]

Don't waste your time with Frankenstein stuff, keep it stock until you can afford a full package lift kit that includes shocks, springs and control arms that have been designed to work together.

Buy once cry once, instead of buying oem take off (there is a reason they were taken off) and piece meal junk.

end of the day you get a system you don't have to keep screwing with and you can enjoy the truck more.

500 bucks gets you a booby prize in the world of suspension. Plan for 2500 to 3000 if you want a system you don't want to screw with and be happy with.

 

[Wolf Island Diver]

Both of my JTs handle and steer fine - the 2020 took a second steering gear to correct the loose steering but it got there.
No issues, road trips to CO and back (and up and around Pike's Peak and other mountain areas, narrow roads, heavy traffic) and even my wife, coming from Grand Cherokees, doesn't mind driving it. I think her JLU Rubicon is mushy a bit - steering isn't tight and you correct quite a bit but then it's a shorter vehicle on different tires, etc. so can't truly compare.
The very best truck was the 2011 Silverado. That thing was luxury driving it, but then it sat totally differently, was wider and longer and weight down low so I'd expect it to drive like a dream. I'd liken my JTs more to what my F250 4x4 was.
I'll take my JT through narrow construction zones and not even blink or hesitate.

I’m not making this up. It’s JTRD. The diesel rubicon suspension is too soft and under damped. I’ve never heard anyone say the gasser bottoms out the front suspension on road. Mine would do this all the time (no winch, stock bumper), all suspension components tight. Numerous diesel owners complain of this problem. The other problem is that Fox Racing shocks are radically inconsistent. I’ve been dealing with Fox Racing for 30 years in the bike industry, fighting with their engineers. Their products have always been inconsistent from one example to the next. I’ll still use their bike stuff, but I’d never pay for their shocks on a motorcycle or truck. There’s actually at least one TSB on the Fox shocks tuning causing handling issues, and in fairness it may be what Jeep spec’d in the diesel rather than some issue with the shocks. I also think the Falken tires are crap which probably doesn’t help.

I don’t believe mine had the steering problem, in part because mine has a cast iron steering box and a reinforced frame already.

I drove a JTR prior to ordering my JTRD and it drove fine. My JTRD drove like crap from the start. The front end wallows out all over the road with any minimal steering input. Passengers noticed this too. My father who is philosophically opposed to modified vehicles actually put my jaw on the floor when, after riding in the truck to Overland Expo, told me “you’ve got to lift this thing” based on how it drove. Adding a winch and bumper actually seemed to dampen the front end a bit although it increased the bottoming out problem. Post-AEV lift, the trucks on road handling is damn near sporty and that’s with 37” mud tires on beadlocks. It was a massive difference. Others have reported similar results with the JTRD

It’s worth noting there’s a video of Dave Harriton, founder of AEV at SEMA back in 2020 saying that the JTs stock suspension is garbage and how he couldn’t understand FCAs rationale in the stock tuning. I don’t have enough time behind the wheel of the pentastar, but compared to handling of every other Jeep I’ve owned, Dave was absolutely 100% spot on with his description as applied to the JTRD.

 

[Freems]

That is honestly the best way to describe OEM JTR shocks! They look cool with the logos and colors but performance is lackluster.

BTW, those “Fox”JTR (pretty shocks) are made by Monroe for Fox with a Fox sticker plastered on.

 

[Wolf Island Diver]

Don't waste your time with Frankenstein stuff, keep it stock until you can afford a full package lift kit that includes shocks, springs and control arms that have been designed to work together.

Buy once cry once, instead of buying oem take off (there is a reason they were taken off) and piece meal junk.

end of the day you get a system you don't have to keep screwing with and you can enjoy the truck more.

500 bucks gets you a booby prize in the world of suspension. Plan for 2500 to 3000 if you want a system you don't want to screw with and be happy with.

I was about to throw a flag on your price range. The AEV dual sport for the diesel is $1919. However once you give the gov’t their pound of flesh, get it aligned, add a track bar, upgrade the rear sway bar and eventually replace the janky AEV front swaybar ends, you’re passing $2500 on the way to $3k.

 

[rharr]

I was about to throw a flag on your price range. The AEV dual sport for the diesel is $1919. However once you give the gov’t their pound of flesh, get it aligned, add a track bar, upgrade the rear sway bar and eventually replace the janky AEV front swaybar ends, you’re passing $2500 on the way to $3k.

Yes, my experience is based on a rock krawler system that i was at about 3k for everything to make the system work together. (track bar, front lca, good shocks, springs, rear track relocation bracket, sway bar links, bump stop blocks). I am not a fan of spacer kits.

 

[Wolf Island Diver]

BTW, those “Fox”JTR (pretty shocks) are made by Monroe for Fox with a Fox sticker plastered on.

Not surprising. That seems to be arc of every company today. Develop a reputation and customer base, so you can later whore your name out for a quick money grab, make simulacra of your own products for big box stores or just slap your name on a cookie cutter product from China sold under random other names on Amazon.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I’m not making this up. It’s JTRD. The diesel rubicon suspension is too soft and under damped. I’ve never heard anyone say the gasser bottoms out the front suspension on road. Mine would do this all the time (no winch, stock bumper), all suspension components tight. Numerous diesel owners complain of this problem. The other problem is that Fox Racing shocks are radically inconsistent. I’ve been dealing with Fox Racing for 30 years in the bike industry, fighting with their engineers. Their products have always been inconsistent from one example to the next. I’ll still use their bike stuff, but I’d never pay for their shocks on a motorcycle or truck. There’s actually at least one TSB on the Fox shocks tuning causing handling issues, and in fairness it may be what Jeep spec’d in the diesel rather than some issue with the shocks. I also think the Falken tires are crap which probably doesn’t help.

I don’t believe mine had the steering problem, in part because mine has a cast iron steering box and a reinforced frame already.

I drove a JTR prior to ordering my JTRD and it drove fine. My JTRD drove like crap from the start. The front end wallows out all over the road with any minimal steering input. Passengers noticed this too. My father who is philosophically opposed to modified vehicles actually put my jaw on the floor when, after riding in the truck to Overland Expo, told me “you’ve got to lift this thing” based on how it drove. Adding a winch and bumper actually seemed to dampen the front end a bit although it increased the bottoming out problem. Post-AEV lift, the trucks on road handling is damn near sporty and that’s with 37” mud tires on beadlocks. It was a massive difference. Others have reported similar results with the JTRD

It’s worth noting there’s a video of Dave Harriton, founder of AEV at SEMA back in 2020 saying that the JTs stock suspension is garbage and how he couldn’t understand FCAs rationale in the stock tuning. I don’t have enough time behind the wheel of the pentastar, but compared to handling of every other Jeep I’ve owned, Dave was absolutely 100% spot on with his description as applied to the JTRD.

Forgot you have the diesel. Yeah, the suspension is horrible for those. Good concept, badly implemented, IMO. Shocks, springs, and the steering just wasn't made for that much weight.
I'm not sure of the weight difference between the 3.6 and the 3.0 diesel but when I add 300 pounds to the front of my truck, you'd better be moving or on ground that gives or you won't turn those wheels like you expect. Fine in winter and plowing snow because the surface makes it easier to turn tires but not on dry pavement. IF I had bigger tires than I do, I'd have to have a booster on the steering.

As far as tires - I had a set of Falken Rubicon take-offs on my 2020 for a while.
I did my due diligence and bought General A/Tx instead when I decided what to get for a permanent tire. So I've had 3 different tires on the same truck. The stock Overland H/T tires were fine for fair-weather driving and comfort and great MPG, the Falkens were ok but I wasn't real happy in our winter, the Generals ended up being the best of them.

The diesel is a whole other thing when talking steering, handling and suspension. No comparison. I think it was tossed in in place of the 3.6 and rushed through with little thought on the suspension and handling bits.

 

[Pescatoral Pursuit]

It took me having 3 or 4 convo’s with AEV to finally get to the bottom of what their design was intended for.

And what was that, "expeditions?"

 

[GEETCH]

im partial to the clayton springs, however, keep in mind, not all springs are made equal. the Claytons are in my opinion some of the stiffest springs on the market and can cause a bumpy ride especially when not loaded down. however, loaded with gear or heavy accessories like plates, winch etc it rides nice for me.

Little back story on my suspension progression,

JTR gas, wanted a little more lift installed the Iron Rock 2" spacer lift on factory suspension stance was good. Ran that for a few months, but springs and shocks still too soft for my setup.

Replaced stock JTR springs with Claytons, 1.5'' front and 2.5" triple rate rear, removed Iron Rock Spacers, but kept the Iron Rock shock extensions on. worked really well, put 37" tires on. ran that for 6 months.

Did a full suspension replacement, went with Clayton 3.5" JT overland + with falcon shocks.
Ran that for 4 months. the supplied shocks are actually too long and the clayton springs too short for the rear. the rear springs on full drop almost fall out of the perch and from what i found many shortened their swaybar links to use it as a limiting strap (not recommended as there are many cases where the bolts rip on the frame tabs) i also did this during this time.
clayton has addressed it, and recommended for people like me who already had the kit to install limiting straps. that requires welding.

instead, i got a teraflex rear spring retaining kit, it secures the rear springs to the frame and axle so now the spring is more or less working as a limiting strap and i dont have to worry about my springs falling out at full flex.

(front suspension was perfectly fine, all geometry issues were in rear as far as length of travel, springs etc.)

now its all dialed in and i am very happy with the performance.

 

[chorky]

And what was that?

‘overland’ style. Man I hate that term. Or someone thst is towing consistently. Basically heavy. So the spec is the rated capacity of that spring over stock.

standard duty - +400 pounds over GVW
HD - +700 over GVW, which is about the axle rating

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