First Transmission Drain and Fill

[Stan H]

Speaking of temps.
Had to wait till this morning when it was cold out to match your 30°F Readings.
I was about 50 miles into my morning commute and not running easy . Also will post one of me on the highway .yesterday in 52 °F weather running 65mph . Look at temps to see morning and afternoon.

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[g2020]

You got it right. I drained the fluid when the vehicle was cold. Out came 5.5L. Then I filled it until fluid came out the fill hole. It took 4L. I then started the vehicle and was able to put in another 1.5L before it started coming out the fill hole. And then I went through the process of running it through the gears and bringing the transmission up to speed. And then topped off the fluid.

I was trying to communicate (not very well apparently) the significant gap between the initial fill without engine running and what happens as soon as the engine is started. To help the next guy doing this.

I hope you don't mind a little help describing the fluid as it sits in the transmission. I'm working with @Maximus Gladius on a written version of the pan drop procedure.

Visualizing a pan drop:

- Before removing the fill plug and when the transmission is cold / completely cooled down, approximately 1.5 quarts of (drainable) fluid rises above the transmission fill plug
- A quantity of about 4 or 5 quarts of (drainable) fluid is present below the fill plug and above the transmission oil pan (of course)

- When the fill plug is removed, the 1.5 quarts of fluid drains out of the fill hole
- Before removing the oil pan, most of the remaining (4 or 5 quarts of) ATF can be siphoned out (with a new siphon, used only for ATF in the transmission) for a less messy job
- When the oil pan is removed, the remainder of the (4 or 5 quarts of) ATF is drained/removed

Why is more than one fill required?

1. After refilling the transmission with new ATF (and temporarily/loosely reinstalling the fill plug), about 1.5 quarts of fluid is circulated/sucked into other components (torque converter, transmission cooler lines) when the vehicle is turned ON in step 2
2. A second fill is required to (quickly) fill the transmission 1) while the vehicle is running, 2) while the ATF in the transmission is within a specific temperature range, and 3) while following the pan drop procedure
3. A (third) fluid level check is required the next day (see this video starting at 6:10 for the fluid level checking procedure, and 12:03 for the reason for this additional check)

- "next day" = after vehicle has been driven at normal operating temperature and then completely cooled down​

Never do a transmission flush. A pan drop involves (gravity) draining while the vehicle is frame-level / on a level surface.

 

[JTGuy]

I'll probably do it but I expect it to make Zero difference in the trans performance or life.

 

[bmoran]

I hope you don't mind a little help describing the fluid as it sits in the transmission. I'm working with @Maximus Gladius on a written version of the pan drop procedure.

Visualizing a pan drop:

- Before removing the fill plug and when the transmission is cold / completely cooled down, approximately 1.5 quarts of (drainable) fluid rises above the transmission fill plug
- A quantity of about 4 or 5 quarts of (drainable) fluid is present below the fill plug and above the transmission oil pan (of course)

- When the fill plug is removed, the 1.5 quarts of fluid drains out of the fill hole
- Before removing the oil pan, most of the remaining (4 or 5 quarts of) ATF can be siphoned out (with a new siphon, used only for ATF in the transmission) for a less messy job
- When the oil pan is removed, the remainder of the (4 or 5 quarts of) ATF is drained/removed

Why is more than one fill required?

1. After refilling the transmission with new ATF (and temporarily/loosely reinstalling the fill plug), about 1.5 quarts of fluid is circulated/sucked into other components (torque converter, transmission cooler lines) when the vehicle is turned ON in step 2
2. A second fill is required to (quickly) fill the transmission 1) while the vehicle is running, 2) while the ATF in the transmission is within a specific temperature range, and 3) while following the pan drop procedure
3. A (third) fluid level check is required the next day (see this video starting at 6:10 for the fluid level checking procedure, and 12:03 for the reason for this additional check)

- "next day" = after vehicle has been driven at normal operating temperature and then completely cooled down​

Never do a transmission flush. A pan drop involves (gravity) draining while the vehicle is frame-level / on a level surface.

E

I hope you don't mind a little help describing the fluid as it sits in the transmission. I'm working with @Maximus Gladius on a written version of the pan drop procedure.

Visualizing a pan drop:

- Before removing the fill plug and when the transmission is cold / completely cooled down, approximately 1.5 quarts of (drainable) fluid rises above the transmission fill plug
- A quantity of about 4 or 5 quarts of (drainable) fluid is present below the fill plug and above the transmission oil pan (of course)

- When the fill plug is removed, the 1.5 quarts of fluid drains out of the fill hole
- Before removing the oil pan, most of the remaining (4 or 5 quarts of) ATF can be siphoned out (with a new siphon, used only for ATF in the transmission) for a less messy job
- When the oil pan is removed, the remainder of the (4 or 5 quarts of) ATF is drained/removed

Why is more than one fill required?

1. After refilling the transmission with new ATF (and temporarily/loosely reinstalling the fill plug), about 1.5 quarts of fluid is circulated/sucked into other components (torque converter, transmission cooler lines) when the vehicle is turned ON in step 2
2. A second fill is required to (quickly) fill the transmission 1) while the vehicle is running, 2) while the ATF in the transmission is within a specific temperature range, and 3) while following the pan drop procedure
3. A (third) fluid level check is required the next day (see this video starting at 6:10 for the fluid level checking procedure, and 12:03 for the reason for this additional check)

- "next day" = after vehicle has been driven at normal operating temperature and then completely cooled down​

Never do a transmission flush. A pan drop involves (gravity) draining while the vehicle is frame-level / on a level surface.

Your points about the 1.5l of fluid above the fill plug are very clear and very helpful. Thank you!

 

[JTGuy]

I got my PPE trans pan in the mail. Waiting for the oil.
I notice that the filter in the PPE is bolted in tight where as the factory pan the filter is allowed to move. Issues with that?

 

[DanW]

I got my PPE trans pan in the mail. Waiting for the oil.
I notice that the filter in the PPE is bolted in tight where as the factory pan the filter is allowed to move. Issues with that?

I'd reach out to PPE about that. Let us know what they say. Maybe the neck on theirs is wider or more forgiving?

 

[DanW]

Anyone want to show how to install a drain plug into a stock transmission pan? That's what I'd like to do at this point, rather than the PPE pan. The drain plug is the main appeal for me with the PPE pan.

 

[g2020]

Question: Did the dealer pad the number of quarts? (Are too many quarts listed on the invoice?)

I just had a pan drop done at my selling dealer. They used genuine MOPAR parts and not BG substitutes.

Everything on the invoice looks good except the volume of ATF (8 quarts). Is this out of line, or is it possible that the tech actually used 8 quarts for a pan drop? I was expecting to see 6 or 7 quarts.

I bought my vehicle in Sep '19, the odometer reads 52,000 miles, and this is the first pan drop. I use my vehicle as a daily driver (no off-road use). On a related note, I drained & filled the transfer case myself last year.

Shifting has improved significantly.

 

[Maximus Gladius]

Question: Did the dealer pad the number of quarts? (Are too many quarts listed on the invoice?)

I just had a pan drop done at my selling dealer. They used genuine MOPAR parts and not BG substitutes.

Everything on the invoice looks good except the volume of ATF (8 quarts). Is this out of line, or is it possible that the tech actually used 8 quarts for a pan drop? I was expecting to see 6 or 7 quarts.

I bought my vehicle in Sep '19, the odometer reads 52,000 miles, and this is the first pan drop. I use my vehicle as a daily driver (no off-road use). On a related note, I drained & filled the transfer case myself last year.

Shifting has improved significantly.

He padded it. He would have drained 5.5 quarts and would have put in 5.5-(6 tops). The whole thing holds 9, maybe one more for the cooler (estimated, not reading the book)

A flush would have taken 17 quarts

 

[g2020]

He padded it. He would have drained 5.5 quarts and would have put in 5.5-(6 tops). The whole thing holds 9, maybe one more for the cooler (estimated, not reading the book)

A flush would have taken 17 quarts

Thanks for the guidance and the quick reply. I could have called him on it, but he only charged me for one hour of labor. I'd rather keep this deal in play, if there is a next time, than quibble about a quart or two.

Lesson learned is always check the number of quarts (six or seven).

 

[jac04]

Anyone want to show how to install a drain plug into a stock transmission pan? That's what I'd like to do at this point, rather than the PPE pan. The drain plug is the main appeal for me with the PPE pan.

I found that almost all of the fluid can be extracted though the fill hole using a relative small diameter flexible tube ( I used some oxygen tubing that I had). I did this before dropping my pan, and I found maybe .25Q left in the pan. So, for my next fluid change I'll probably just do a drain (through fill plug), extract & refill.

I had considered installing a drain plug in the stock pan, but the common options are a bolt-in plug assembly or welding something in place. The bolt-in plugs stand proud of the bottom of the pan, so you are not able to drain all the fluid. The weld-in plugs will compromise the paint on the pan, and I didn't want to worry about paint peeling off and getting into the fluid.

 

[ChrisNLA]

My moms 2006 Chevy Equinox has 255,000 miles on it with original transmission fluid. Shifts fine.

My 2015 Camaro has the original fluid at 55,000 miles. I haven't decided when I will change it (based on age, or mileage) but it shifts fine.

My 1993 Chevy 1500 has a 4L60E swapped into it (more than 15 years ago). When I swapped it in all I did was drain the fluid, swap the filter, install a Corvette servo, and top the fluid off. I have beat this truck mercilessly and I am convinced the only reason the trans still functions is the extra pressure from the servo. The fluid is looking tired, and we have even topped it off with plain hydraulic fluid before. It keeps going. Around 125K miles is my best guess on the trans.

All that is to say, based on my experience....I'm just gonna drop and refill my truck probably based on ZF's guidelines, not Jeeps - but I have seen vehicles last both ways.

 

[Maximus Gladius]

Thanks for the guidance and the quick reply. I could have called him on it, but he only charged me for one hour of labor. I'd rather keep this deal in play, if there is a next time, than quibble about a quart or two.

Lesson learned is always check the number of quarts (six).

Did you drive it there hot and he worked on it right away or was it parked over night so he had it cold when he drove it in on the hoist?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Question: Did the dealer pad the number of quarts? (Are too many quarts listed on the invoice?)

I just had a pan drop done at my selling dealer. They used genuine MOPAR parts and not BG substitutes.

Everything on the invoice looks good except the volume of ATF (8 quarts). Is this out of line, or is it possible that the tech actually used 8 quarts for a pan drop? I was expecting to see 6 or 7 quarts.

I bought my vehicle in Sep '19, the odometer reads 52,000 miles, and this is the first pan drop. I use my vehicle as a daily driver (no off-road use). On a related note, I drained & filled the transfer case myself last year.

Shifting has improved significantly.

That depends on if it was sitting or hot among other factors.

All responses are in a way, speculation, not having been there to know how much came out and the exact conditions.
8 would seem high - however, it's a guess as to exactly how it was done

These dry take 9 to 10 quarts, depending on cooler and so on.

Typical for a drain and refill is 5 to 7 quarts. (yes, it varies that much)

If you give them the benefit of the doubt, it's still likely 1 quart over.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

My moms 2006 Chevy Equinox has 255,000 miles on it with original transmission fluid. Shifts fine.

My 2015 Camaro has the original fluid at 55,000 miles. I haven't decided when I will change it (based on age, or mileage) but it shifts fine.

My 1993 Chevy 1500 has a 4L60E swapped into it (more than 15 years ago). When I swapped it in all I did was drain the fluid, swap the filter, install a Corvette servo, and top the fluid off. I have beat this truck mercilessly and I am convinced the only reason the trans still functions is the extra pressure from the servo. The fluid is looking tired, and we have even topped it off with plain hydraulic fluid before. It keeps going. Around 125K miles is my best guess on the trans.

All that is to say, based on my experience....I'm just gonna drop and refill my truck probably based on ZF's guidelines, not Jeeps - but I have seen vehicles last both ways.

Yeah, and I speak as a person who used to repair/service/rebuild automatic transmissions.....
There's a lot of fear mongering out there (quoting someone from another thread)

This is 2025, not 1965.

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