Ford Laying off 70% of EV Lightning employees [LOCKED DUE TO FIGHTING & POLITICS]

[WestwallNF104A]

I think it's actually about 15 tablespoons per mile if your jeep gets about 17 mpg. Maybe we can start a trend of rating vehicle efficiency by using "MPT" or " miles per tablespoon".

I wonder how many tablespoons are in a gallon!

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[DrewsJT]

And my parents pure electric rivian can go 335 miles on a charge, and can get to 80% in 15 minutes. Do you drive 335 miles without stopping for lunch for 15 minutes? Think about it. Before you go on a rant about the cost of a rivian, I’m not arguing that. But the technology is amazing, and is coming around quickly. And my gladiator is worth more than a rivian at this point.

I wasn't starting shit, I was asking a simple question

 

[AmosMoses]

I wonder how many tablespoons are in a gallon!

Wonder no more my friend because the innernet says there are 256 tablespoons in a gallon. You're welcome ?

 

[WILDHOBO]

Electric buses are a failure. Most transit systems that have them, have stopped because of low availability.

We have an electric bus that runs from Reno to Carson City. At least 3 times a week it gets stuck in the Washoe valley.

So, the diesel bus has to go down and pick up the riders. I learned about that from a friend who is a LYFT driver, he has a nurse who usually rides that bus to work, but 3 times a week, he has to go get her.

She simply can't wait the hour or more it is going to take to get her back home.

On cold days they don't run it at all.

They’re a work in progress. Not a failure. You seem to be of the opinion that if something isn’t perfect on the first try, that it should be abandoned. I’m glad the proverbial they didn’t do that with many of the other things we now take for granted, but took decades of learning and improvement.

 

[WestwallNF104A]

Wonder no more my friend because the innernet says there are 256 tablespoons in a gallon. You're welcome ?

I thank you kindly!

 

[WestwallNF104A]

They’re a work in progress. Not a failure. You seem to be of the opinion that if something isn’t perfect on the first try, that it should be abandoned. I’m glad the proverbial they didn’t do that with many of the other things we now take for granted, but took decades of learning and improvement.

Anything that is designed to transport people should NEVER be used until it is fully developed. So, the fact that they aren't, is irresponsible.

I hope you understand, I WANT EV development to proceed. I would love to have a world where fossil fuels are no longer needed.

What I don't want are government regulations that order people to buy stuff they don't want, or need.

 

[WILDHOBO]

Anything that is designed to transport people should NEVER be used until it is fully developed. So, the fact that they aren't, is irresponsible.

I hope you understand, I WANT EV development to proceed. I would love to have a world where fossil fuels are no longer needed.

What I don't want are government regulations that order people to buy stuff they don't want, or need.

No one had forced or told anyone to buy and EV. It’s a consumer choice.

 

[WILDHOBO]

Anything that is designed to transport people should NEVER be used until it is fully developed. So, the fact that they aren't, is irresponsible.

I hope you understand, I WANT EV development to proceed. I would love to have a world where fossil fuels are no longer needed.

What I don't want are government regulations that order people to buy stuff they don't want, or need.

Fully developed? Irresponsible? Do ICE vehicles not improve very single year, since their creation? Do they not continue to have recalls due to safety problems? One could say they’re still not fully developed after well over 100 years. It’s just irresponsible to release a vehicle with clutch problems, bad fuel pumps that strand people, oil leaks in rear axles, ineffective aluminum steering gearboxes, and I could go on. Every single example I used were from ICE Jeep gladiators.

 

[WestwallNF104A]

No one had forced or told anyone to buy and EV. It’s a consumer choice.

But that simply isn't true. California has said no more internal combustion vehicles can be sold after 2035.

There are federal mandates that are likewise draconian.

When you look at the history of transportation the horse and buggy was great (other than the horse poo that was everywhere) for hundreds of years.

Then the Steam engine came along and overnight railroads began to spring up. A mere 50 years after them, they figured out how to make small steam engines, and electricity came along, and the internal combustion engine was invented, for a few years the electric powered car was winning the race to automotive dominance, but then they were able to figure out how to make gasoline super cheap, and the engines more capable, and voila, the EV and steam powered cars were pushed aside.

All without government intrusion. If something comes along that is superior it WILL take over. That is a simple fact.

If government is forced to mandate it, they are doing so because it ISN'T all that great, and, as we have seen, there are a lot of politicians who are poised to make ridiculous amounts of money if those mandates ever pan out.

 

[WestwallNF104A]

Fully developed? Irresponsible? Do ICE vehicles not improve very single year, since their creation? Do they not continue to have recalls due to safety problems? One could say they’re still not fully developed after well over 100 years. It’s just irresponsible to release a vehicle with clutch problems, bad fuel pumps that strand people, oil leaks in rear axles, ineffective aluminum steering gearboxes, and I could go on. Every single example I used were from ICE Jeep gladiators.

ICE vehicles don't stop on the side of the road, and have their passengers wait for a long time to get home on a regular basis.

And yes, when manufacturers release vehicles with problems, that they knew about, they tend to get sued and lose a lot of money for doing so.

 

[WILDHOBO]

But that simply isn't true. California has said no more internal combustion vehicles can be sold after 2035.

There are federal mandates that are likewise draconian.

When you look at the history of transportation the horse and buggy was great (other than the horse poo that was everywhere) for hundreds of years.

Then the Steam engine came along and overnight railroads began to spring up. A mere 50 years after them, they figured out how to make small steam engines, and electricity came along, and the internal combustion engine was invented, for a few years the electric powered car was winning the race to automotive dominance, but then they were able to figure out how to make gasoline super cheap, and the engines more capable, and voila, the EV and steam powered cars were pushed aside.

All without government intrusion. If something comes along that is superior it WILL take over. That is a simple fact.

If government is forced to mandate it, they are doing so because it ISN'T all that great, and, as we have seen, there are a lot of politicians who are poised to make ridiculous amounts of money if those mandates ever pan out.

That’s 11 years from now. Governments no longer allow horses on city streets. Draconian? And they are superior. You just don’t want to accept that. Eventually you will, or you’ll just get more grumpy. Governments disallowed the use of leaded fuel. Governments in Europe have disallowed diesel. That’s coming whether you like it or not. And it’s coming because it’s a good thing. Local driving EV semi drivers overwhelmingly love their new trucks. No more diesel fumes. Smoother driving, quieter, etc. when battery tech improves to allow it for longer distances, it will quickly take over. EVs usually don’t require maintenance for 100k miles, other than tires. I can just go on and on. We are also experienced, as we currently own our 6th plugin.

 

[redriderjf87]

No one had forced or told anyone to buy and EV. It’s a consumer choice.

False

 

[BourbonRunner]

No one had forced or told anyone to buy and EV. It’s a consumer choice.

Bears repeating because this is dead wrong.

As mentioned, CA, other states as well as in Europe have enacted future bans on the sale of ICE vehicles to consumers and, the sale and use of diesel heavy trucks (CA again), outdoor power equipment (CA again) and so on.

Governments have also taken an active role in discouraging ICE usage via other means, too. Increased and new taxes (congestion and increased fuel taxes come to mind), stymying the petroleum industry at every opportunity (pipeline construction stopped, ending exports of LNG, not releasing exploration permits, etc), draconian CAFE restrictions, massive consumer subsidies on EVs to encourage adoption and even bigger subsidies to the automakers and supporting industries to build more, even though aside from Tesla most manufacturers lose their shirts per unit sold. The Lightning losing $36K per unit is a death sentence for Ford.

Furthermore, the horse buggy whip analogy is stale and never was germane. The governments of the world never banned horse and carriage in favor of automobiles, the industry died because a better product emerged and the consumer chose.

 

[WILDHOBO]

Bears repeating because this is dead wrong.

As mentioned, CA, other states as well as in Europe have enacted future bans on the sale of ICE vehicles to consumers and, the sale and use of diesel heavy trucks (CA again), outdoor power equipment (CA again) and so on.

Governments have also taken an active role in discouraging ICE usage via other means, too. Increased and new taxes (congestion and increased fuel taxes come to mind), stymying the petroleum industry at every opportunity (pipeline construction stopped, ending exports of LNG, not releasing exploration permits, etc), draconian CAFE restrictions, massive consumer subsidies on EVs to encourage adoption and even bigger subsidies to the automakers and supporting industries to build more, even though aside from Tesla most manufacturers lose their shirts per unit sold. The Lightning losing $36K per unit is a death sentence for Ford.

Furthermore, the horse buggy whip analogy is stale and never was germane. The governments of the world never banned horse and carriage in favor of automobiles, the industry died because a better product emerged and the consumer chose.

And yet you have a problem change now, but not in the past? Leaded gas vehicles were banned. And corn was forced on us in the form of ethanol gas, much worse for our engines, and not in any way more efficient. Farmers received gains from fuel buying tax payers, but I don’t see you whining about that.

 

[WestwallNF104A]

That’s 11 years from now. Governments no longer allow horses on city streets. Draconian? And they are superior. You just don’t want to accept that. Eventually you will, or you’ll just get more grumpy. Governments disallowed the use of leaded fuel. Governments in Europe have disallowed diesel. That’s coming whether you like it or not. And it’s coming because it’s a good thing. Local driving EV semi drivers overwhelmingly love their new trucks. No more diesel fumes. Smoother driving, quieter, etc. when battery tech improves to allow it for longer distances, it will quickly take over. EVs usually don’t require maintenance for 100k miles, other than tires. I can just go on and on. We are also experienced, as we currently own our 6th plugin.

Eleven short years for something you claimed wasn't happening. Horses ARE allowed on

That’s 11 years from now. Governments no longer allow horses on city streets. Draconian? And they are superior. You just don’t want to accept that. Eventually you will, or you’ll just get more grumpy. Governments disallowed the use of leaded fuel. Governments in Europe have disallowed diesel. That’s coming whether you like it or not. And it’s coming because it’s a good thing. Local driving EV semi drivers overwhelmingly love their new trucks. No more diesel fumes. Smoother driving, quieter, etc. when battery tech improves to allow it for longer distances, it will quickly take over. EVs usually don’t require maintenance for 100k miles, other than tires. I can just go on and on. We are also experienced, as we currently own our 6th plugin.

Eleven short years for something to take effect, that you said wasn't happening..........



Yes, horses are allowed on the streets. There are very few States where riding horses on the road is illegal. I think Louisiana is the harshest not allowing horses on any asphalt road. No, EV's are not superior. They are able to fill a niche currently. A very small niche. You will find that the government mandates against fuel that you are so proud of will be rolled back very quickly. Because if they don't, they DIE.

It is truly that simple. Germany, France, The Netherlands, and Austria have already started reopening coal fueled power plants. Mainly in response to the Russian invasion of Ukraine, but Germany got tired of their taxpayers freezing to death because their solar power plants weren't cutting it.

As far as EV Semi's, for short haul they are indeed great. OTR they have no chance for years to come. The infrastructure isn't there, and the batteries need at least two orders of magnitude improvement before they are viable.

These are simple facts.

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