Ford Laying off 70% of EV Lightning employees [LOCKED DUE TO FIGHTING & POLITICS]

[Deleted member 57233]

Yes, I have, and yes, I was being hyperbolic there. EV's have their place. They can be very useful in a urban environment where charging isn't an issue.

My biggest problem has always been if they are so great, government should not need to require people to buy them.

The fact that government is forcing them on people tells me that they aren't so great. So I have done some research to find out why.

First up is the fact that no infrastructure is being built to support the millions of EV's that they want us to buy.

Second is the toxicity of the battery manufacturing, and the pollution caused by the mining, transport, and production of entire system. ALL of which uses fossil fuels.

Third is longevity. No EV is going to be on the road in 40 years. They have a set lifespan, and then you toss them. I have friends who regularly drive cars and trucks that are 80 years old.

Fourth is fragility. Even minor damage to an EV is sometimes enough to total it. It's a bad enough problem that some insurance companies are beginning to not cover them.

And last is overall utility. I can take any of my normal cars and use them at will, for anything I choose, at any time, and drive 600 miles in a day, and not have to wait hours for a recharge.

And I can do that every day, endlessly.

Most of your points apply to your Gladiator and every other vehicle built in the last decade.

Sponsored

 

[ecidiego]

I did not buy the Bolt to save the planet. It was purely a financial decision to prevent having to drive my F150 of Lexus getting 16mpg with gas at $4.50 a gallon.

This. So many Infowars fans think you're "virtue signaling" when in fact you're sick of paying $500/mo to buy weapons for the middle eastern countries that hate us.

 

[maSS-hole]

Yes, I have, and yes, I was being hyperbolic there. EV's have their place. They can be very useful in a urban environment where charging isn't an issue.

My biggest problem has always been if they are so great, government should not need to require people to buy them.

The fact that government is forcing them on people tells me that they aren't so great. So I have done some research to find out why.

First up is the fact that no infrastructure is being built to support the millions of EV's that they want us to buy.

Second is the toxicity of the battery manufacturing, and the pollution caused by the mining, transport, and production of entire system. ALL of which uses fossil fuels.

Third is longevity. No EV is going to be on the road in 40 years. They have a set lifespan, and then you toss them. I have friends who regularly drive cars and trucks that are 80 years old.

Fourth is fragility. Even minor damage to an EV is sometimes enough to total it. It's a bad enough problem that some insurance companies are beginning to not cover them.

And last is overall utility. I can take any of my normal cars and use them at will, for anything I choose, at any time, and drive 600 miles in a day, and not have to wait hours for a recharge.

And I can do that every day, endlessly.

I live in a 3000 person town in rural UT and my Chevy Bolt does just fine. Charging is not an issue because I have a house with an electrical connection. If I actually had to drive 260 miles(the range of the bolt), I would pass a charger somewhere. If I had to drive more than 260 miles, its probalbly to go camping or something similar and I would take my truck.

If you need to road trip 200 miles on a regular basis then it might be more difficult than just hopping in a gas car, but I dont know anyone personally who does that regularly, and anyone who is married and lives in a house usually have at least one other car they could drive. My neighbor is a two driver household and has 4 cars. Do every single one need to be an ICE with a 500 mile range? Absolutely not.

 

[ecidiego]

I live in a 3000 person town in rural UT and my Chevy Bolt does just fine. Charging is not an issue because I have a house with an electrical connection. If I actually had to drive 260 miles(the range of the bolt), I would pass a charger somewhere. If I had to drive more than 260 miles, its probalbly to go camping or something similar and I would take my truck.

If you need to road trip 200 miles on a regular basis then it might be more difficult than just hopping in a gas car, but I dont know anyone personally who does that regularly, and anyone who is married and lives in a house doesnt have at least one other car they could drive. My neighbor is a two driver household and has 4 cars. Do every single one need to be an ICE with a 500 mile range. Absolutely not.

Ever since EVs came out people use the argument " I drive 500 miles a day tho ". It's so tiresome. lol

 

[smlobx]

Why don't you do your thing and I'll do mine and we will all be harmonious together? Let manufacturers decide what and how they build and let EV progress organically. That is not what has happened though and that is why you can predict the comments.

I agree with you. The subsidies that are being thrown about are, at least for us, too good to pass up. I’m just playing the game as best as I can for my family. I agree that the best thing for our country would be the end of all subsidies but here we are…

 

[WestwallNF104A]

We are losing sight of the forests with all this chatter back and forth. Let's get back on track.

EVs can be very very fast. That is the only neat thing about them --and they sound like garbage doing the one thing they do really well. Otherwise, they are lifeless, vanilla, soul sucking, utensils that lower a mans testosterone while simultaneously causing prostate cancer. They are antithetical to everything which makes the automobile truly special. EVs are the functional equivalent of a common bathroom toilet and have absolutely no right being expensive. We used to call EVs golfcarts. They were much cooler as golfcarts.

Where I live on the east coast, they are the trump card of virtue signaling for the do-nothing elitists. They most often share a garage next to another lifeless and boring utensil such as a Toyota Camry, Honda CRV, or Subaru Crosstrek.

The typical US market EV is stupid. They are expensive fair-weather toys for the wealthy. There's nothing wrong with having toys.

That is so true! If I had scads of money just laying around I would certainly get one. As you say, the acceleration on them is awesome!

My friends S is ridiculously quick. Doesn't handle very well, but in a straight up drag race it's a hoot!

 

[WestwallNF104A]

Lol at some of these comments. We love our Chevy Bolt. It doesn't suck in every way, its actually awesome in a lot of ways.

1. Its quick
2. Theres no lag
3. Its very quiet on the freeway
4. It can climb a 7% grade at 7000' without even trying(vs some crappy NA gas motor revving to the moon)
5. Its actually pretty capable in the snow due to the electric motor being far more controllable.
6. The interior is massive for such a small vehicle because there is no fuel tank or exhaust having to be routed under the car. Just a short battery under the floor pan.
7. I never have to go to a gas station and stand out in the cold. Just roll into my garage and plug it in.
8. It cost me about 1/9th the cost of driving a gas truck or SUV.

If the EV powertrain and its drawback fit into your lifestyle(lets face it, most of you naysayers just make shit up that you "need") then its a great way to go. I did not buy the Bolt to save the planet. It was purely a financial decision to prevent having to drive my F150 of Lexus getting 16mpg with gas at $4.50 a gallon. And in that regard and many others, its phenominal. Even an equivalent ICE car(like a civic or sentra or something) would never be able to pay for itself in a reasonable amount of time since its also consuming $4.50 fuel. Meanwhile my Bolt drinks $0.12/kwh electricity and cost me about $60 to drive 2000 miles.

5100 miles in 3.5 months and not once have I had to charge it anywhere but my garage. I've got snow tires and a roof rack on it and am in UT in the cold and it still gets everywhere I need it to. In the fall I had my bike rack on a hitch and could bring me, my wife and my 6 yo to the mountain bike trails.

The problem with the Ford Lightning(and other full-size truck EV's) is that they are not offereing anything that a full-size truck buyer wants. A full-size truck buyer goes into the dealer thinking of all the things they can do with their truck, and the EV takes a lot of those things away. Even if the buyer won't actually use the capabilities in reality, its the idea that they could that attrachs them to the vehicle. Just like a lot of Jeep buyers never take their Jeep offroad.

Ford and GM are morons and should have focused their attention on smaller, cheaper vehicles. Smaller cars or even something like an EV Maverick. A Maverick buyer is not walking into the dealer thinking they are going to tow their 6000 lb travel trailer across the country and so the limitations of the EV powertrain are not going to be an issue. An EV maverick would work 100% fine for a daily commute and random dump run or picking up supplies at Home Depot, which is what the gas versions are used for anyways.

Well put.

 

[WestwallNF104A]

Most of your points apply to your Gladiator and every other vehicle built in the last decade.

I don't recollect the government telling me I had to buy my gladi.

 

[WestwallNF104A]

Ever since EVs came out people use the argument " I drive 500 miles a day tho ". It's so tiresome. lol

EV's have been around since the dawn of automobiles. They have always had range issues.

 

[ecidiego]

EV's have been around since the dawn of automobiles. They have always had range issues.

My gas Jeep has more range issues than my Tesla tho....

 

[WestwallNF104A]

My gas Jeep has more range issues than my Tesla tho....

But you can drive for 250 miles in your jeep. Refuel in 10 minutes, and be on the road again. I have a business trip coming up. I will be driving 2300 miles in two days. Pick up a Item I bought, and then drive right back. It will save me around 4800 in shipping costs. Think your Tesla can do that?

And please remember, I love that you love your Tesla. My friend loves his. Just don't tell me that I have to buy one. Different strokes, for different folks.

 

[AmosMoses]

I agree with you. The subsidies that are being thrown about are, at least for us, too good to pass up. I’m just playing the game as best as I can for my family. I agree that the best thing for our country would be the end of all subsidies but here we are…

And I may have one too in the future when it makes sense for me and my family. It's exciting technology that has alot to offer for sure and will only get better I hope.

 

[Yman70]

VW-
https://electrek.co/2023/11/16/volkswagens-ev-woes-worsen-over-slowing-demand/

It’s almost as if these manufacturers can’t pull it off without government support….
Throw back the 80’s with a Margaret Thatcher quote: “The problem with socialism, eventually you run out of other people’s money.” <- I find this fitting given if you cannot produce a product without government offsets… are you really producing? Or just complying


Musk in the mean time is still making moves to increase affordability through production refinement. Looked at a new Model Y for a commuter @$43k ?
(180 miles a day…) was priced around $70 just a couple years back.

Tesla would never have survived if not for Carbon Credits, they are still making money off of selling Carbon Credits.
https://carboncredits.com/teslas-re...revenues,that reduce planet-warming emissions.

 

[WestwallNF104A]

And I may have one too in the future when it makes sense for me and my family. It's exciting technology that has alot to offer for sure and will only get better I hope.

One of my former professors lives close to me and he always said that government subsidies were holding back developments because there was no penalty for failure.

They could basically tread water and the government would keep paying them.

 

[DrewsJT]

Mine charges free. Paid off solar that has then paid for itself. Not inconvenient for millions. They're viable and valuable in many scenarios.

Would I be better off if my wife spent $500/mo in gasoline ferrying our 3 kids around instead of charging for literally free? I definitely asked for EVs. Better than funding oil shieks.

Going to the gas station every week is what's inconvient for a commuter.

Easy to say because you live I an area that has 350 days of sunshine a year. And by the way, you're welcome. I, and every other taxpayer subsidized you solar panels and your EV. So it might be "free" for you but the rest of us paid for it.

Sponsored